Unobtanium Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 What's the difference? Has anyone used either? Thoughts? http://freedomfightertactical.com/collections/benelli-m4-tactical-shotgun-parts-and-accessories/products/the-freedom-fighter-tactical-worry-free-extended-carrier-for-the-benelli-m4-tactical-shotgun FFT: TTI: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truckcop Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Well, since FFT's website says they're in Pre-Order status, I doubt there's anyone who can vouch for them. I've got Tarans on all my M1/M2's now and they work great. Haven't had a feeding issue that could be traced back to them. It must be said, however, I never had a feeding issue with the OEM's. The primary reason for the original modifications that were made to OEM's was the thumb catching between the carrier and the receiver when loading old-school underneath. (that's just gauche today - if you're not doing the load-2 or load-4 or load-6 or whatever the latest high-speed technique is, you're just behind the times) The newfangled loading procedures, at least for competition, seems to have eliminated the need for that modification since the thumb isn't in the same position while loading shells. Anyway, I digress . I still do it old-school, one at a time, underneath. If it was good enough for daddy it's still good enough for me. Edited February 21, 2017 by truckcop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortec MAX Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I load two at a time in competition and the stock carrier will tear your thumb up. I have the TTI and it has worked flawlessly. And I have kept the skin on my thumb. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12508 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Would this also help loading with gloves on? I always get the leather pinched . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truckcop Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Would this also help loading with gloves on? I always get the leather pinched . . . Yep, most likely, depending on the type of gloves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCKLST Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I also have a TTI on my competition M2 and it works great. At some point I will add one to my M4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 I called FFT. They confirm that their lifter IS NOT HEAT TREATED. Now at first, this seems like a bad thing. However, I cancelled my TTI order because TTI claims they ARE heat-treated. So why kill the TTI order? Because you CANNOT heat-treat 304SS, which both are made of. You CAN anneal it, but annealing actually softens the metal, which work-hardens from being cold worked. Cold worked like formed in a die. Like a shotgun shell lifter would be... If the 304SS can be worked into shape without annealing it, this is best, but if too much working is required, annealing might be necessary to continue working it. This has many implications for the TTI and FFT followers. Ultimately though, annealing is part of the process of working with 304SS sometimes, and NOT "a heat treatment" in the sense people normally associate it. It softens the metal so it can be worked more, which again work hardens it. It is not some "final form" treatment like it would be with a knife blade or something. So from what I gather, the TTI is actually the worser product, on paper, based on my understandings of working with 304SS. Here is more data: http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/austenitic/304_304l_data_bulletin.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_garten Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I called FFT. They confirm that their lifter IS NOT HEAT TREATED. Now at first, this seems like a bad thing. However, I cancelled my TTI order because TTI claims they ARE heat-treated. So why kill the TTI order? Because you CANNOT heat-treat 304SS, which both are made of. You CAN anneal it, but annealing actually softens the metal, which work-hardens from being cold worked. Cold worked like formed in a die. Like a shotgun shell lifter would be... If the 304SS can be worked into shape without annealing it, this is best, but if too much working is required, annealing might be necessary to continue working it. This has many implications for the TTI and FFT followers. Ultimately though, annealing is part of the process of working with 304SS sometimes, and NOT "a heat treatment" in the sense people normally associate it. It softens the metal so it can be worked more, which again work hardens it. It is not some "final form" treatment like it would be with a knife blade or something. So from what I gather, the TTI is actually the worser product, on paper, based on my understandings of working with 304SS. Here is more data: http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/austenitic/304_304l_data_bulletin.pdf Has anybody complained about the TTI's breaking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Has anybody complained about the TTI's breaking? Not that I am aware of. However, noone complained of the Design Concepts CH breaking either. Yet everyone really liked the A2 steel tang Kip used... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truckcop Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) I've probably got at least 5 thousand rounds through my primary skeet gun, a M1, since installing my TTI carrier. Having just taken a look at it I find no discernible wear nor deformation. As I noted previously, there have been absolutely no feeding issues that could be traced back to the carrier. Regardless of how they form it, treat it, or bless it, it works and that's the bottom line. Based on other FFT products that I've used, I imagine that once their carrier starts shipping, theirs will work just as well. Edited February 24, 2017 by truckcop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_garten Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I'm curious why the cutout is there in the first place. If competition guys want them welded up, why wouldn't combat guys want the same thing. It must serve a purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) I'm curious why the cutout is there in the first place. If competition guys want them welded up, why wouldn't combat guys want the same thing. It must serve a purpose. Mid-way down the page, you find your answer: http://forums.brianenos.com/index.php?/topic/238888-opinions-on-benelli-barrel-throating/ Problem: Shot a local match this weekend. Had some failures to feed. No sharp spots in extractor, new carrier spring reduced issues, using motor oil seemed to work best. Springs are all new, changed bit by bit, factory weights. Still, had to give the bolt handle a whack a lot. Insight: I will put a bend back in the nose of the TTI lifter. As new I could really feel it while loading. Shell rims were really clicking on the nose, and I straightened it out. Solution: You have induced your problem by straightening the nose of the lifter. It needs a little bit of bend down at the front to keep it from overly lifting the shell into the upper locking lug recess and jamming, about 8-10 degrees That is the reason for the V-cut. It allows the lifter to be perfectly straight (simpler/easier to make en mass) and PRECISELY lifts the shell JUST the right amount, since the shell has a round rim, and it should be obvious what a well-measured and placed V-cut will do regarding this operation, given the round rim it will interface with. In short, I have deduced that Benelli chose to make a V-cut that can be easily and precisely replicated en mass, vs die forming the lifters very precisely on the end, which likely would result in a higher rate of failures as tolerances waver over time with something like that much moreso than they would the V-cut. If anyone has a better idea, I'd be more than open to it! *If you read further, the OP changed other things and got the gun running again. I still think the observations on lifter profile are accurate. Edited February 24, 2017 by Unobtanium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_garten Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Mid-way down the page, you find your answer: http://forums.brianenos.com/index.php?/topic/238888-opinions-on-benelli-barrel-throating/ Problem: Insight: Solution: .... Thanx! Interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Here is Benelli's official answer...and I kindof don't agree, rofl! Oh sweet lord. This is what Benelli CS had to say when I asked the same question.... It is for the thumb to have extra clearance when loading. As for the aftermarket parts we cannot guarantee that they will function properly in the gun. Sincerely, TechSupport1 Technical Service Representative Benelli USA, 901 8th Street Pocomoke, MD, 21851 p: 1-800-264-4962 option 2 f: 410-957-4184 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_garten Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Here is Benelli's official answer...and I kindof don't agree, rofl! Oh sweet lord. This is what Benelli CS had to say when I asked the same question.... I always thought that was what it was for as well. Also as a shell guide. But then I wondered why it acted so well as to guide the thumb into a chomping position! I also wondered why if it worked so well, why all the guys who are so good at shooting shotguns welded it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rose Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I called FFT. They confirm that their lifter IS NOT HEAT TREATED. Now at first, this seems like a bad thing. However, I cancelled my TTI order because TTI claims they ARE heat-treated. So why kill the TTI order? Because you CANNOT heat-treat 304SS, which both are made of. You CAN anneal it, but annealing actually softens the metal, which work-hardens from being cold worked. Cold worked like formed in a die. Like a shotgun shell lifter would be... If the 304SS can be worked into shape without annealing it, this is best, but if too much working is required, annealing might be necessary to continue working it. This has many implications for the TTI and FFT followers. Ultimately though, annealing is part of the process of working with 304SS sometimes, and NOT "a heat treatment" in the sense people normally associate it. It softens the metal so it can be worked more, which again work hardens it. It is not some "final form" treatment like it would be with a knife blade or something. So from what I gather, the TTI is actually the worser product, on paper, based on my understandings of working with 304SS. Here is more data: http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/austenitic/304_304l_data_bulletin.pdf I wonder if the ad copy for the TTI product was written by someone that does not understand metal or manufacturing...also, for the longest time that TTI lifter was advertised as also fitting the Versamax when everyone knew the Versamax lifter was longer (I see a note has since been added that addresses that issue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairlesswookiee Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 My FFT just arrived in the mail this morning. I don't know when I'll get the change to take it out shoting again, but I did get it quickly installed just fine. Now I'm just chomping at the bits for my magainze tube from Carrier Comp to come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badkins100 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) I installed the FFT extended carrier yesterday and the only problem I saw was it was a bit too snug to move freely. The area where the large pin goes through was rubbing on both sides. It may have worn in with use, but I used a small screwdriver to pry (sprain) the carrier out just a tiny bit until it started working. I could not visibly see that I had spread the carrier, but it freed up perfectly and now works slickly. Now I admit, I do not shoot my 1014 as it is a low serial number and is not used as a utility gun, and has had only 10 or so rounds fired through it, so things are pretty much factory snug. Even having only taken it to the range once, the stock shell lifter was a thumb wrinkles and cuticle eater. The FFT shell lifter does not bite at all. Edited March 9, 2017 by badkins100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 These have been out a good like while, now. I am curious: Failures? Issues? Good things? Bad things? What are the experiences with fit/finish? The only review in this thread indicates that it was lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln62 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 8/2/2017 at 12:36 AM, Unobtanium said: These have been out a good like while, now. I am curious: Failures? Issues? Good things? Bad things? What are the experiences with fit/finish? The only review in this thread indicates that it was lacking. BTT - still curious what the community has found over time regarding these alternatives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Lincoln62 said: BTT - still curious what the community has found over time regarding these alternatives? I’ve used both extensively. No issues with either. Both appear to be nearly identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTom Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) I don't have the FFT extended carrier so I can't compare but I went with the Taran Tactical. I figured Taran has a lot of experience in the 3 Gun Nationlas and has a history with some of the best 3 Gun champions using their product. As an added bonus it is less expensive than FFT and TTI charges less in shipping. ? Edited September 26, 2020 by GTTom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPC Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I’ll be installing a TTI shell carrier shortly. Is this as easy a job as it looks, or are there any tutorials I should review in advance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 2 hours ago, RPC said: I’ll be installing a TTI shell carrier shortly. Is this as easy a job as it looks, or are there any tutorials I should review in advance? It's pretty easy. Look thru this tutorial. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPC Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 7 hours ago, StrangerDanger said: It's pretty easy. Look thru this tutorial. You’re the man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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