BlackDogs3
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Posts posted by BlackDogs3
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Benelli extended the stock of the 2008 SBEII by about 3/8" so the 14 LOP pad gives about a 14 3/8" LOP. Benelli had requests for a longer LOP on the SBEII and they could not successfully make a gel pad longer than the 14 3/8" pad so they lengthened the stock. I just switched to a 10401 LimbSaver and it is great. Much better than the stock 14" LOP and about the same thickness. Tape the edges of the stock insert on the 10401 to make it fit tightly in the extended stock. The LimbSaver 10400 is a bit thinner than the 10401 and I have not tried it on my SBEII as yet.
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I agree the patterns are pretty much the same size between a 12 and a 20 ga. That's why I said that I think that the increased number of pellets at the edges of the pattern leads to more wounded birds with legs using a 12 ga. My current assumption is that the bird flies through the holes at the edge of a 20 ga pattern pretty easily so that you don't knock as many birds with an off center shot using a 20 ga. This season the boys only lost 2 birds that I knocked down using my 20 ga. When I was shooting 12 ga, I was constantly knocking down birds with legs in Iowa and North Dakota that four very good dogs could not find. This was a real big problem with a 12 ga in Iowa where you can only shoot steel loads in the public areas. I think the 12 ga becomes an asset late in the pheasant season when the birds are flushing wild at distance and 40 yd or longer shots become the norm.
I have actually shot a Browning "Sweet 16" hunting pheasants. It kicked my ass. The 16 ga has almost the kick of a 12 ga with the weight of a 20 ga. The browning had a horrible kick with 2 3/4" 16 ga field loads.
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I have used both 12 ga and 20 ga for pheasant. Right now my favorite pheasant gun is a 20 ga Super Sport. The 20 ga is much easier to carry all day on long hunts in North Dakota and Iowa. A twelve gauge is a bit of overkill for pheasant and definite overkill for quail. I use a 28 ga for quail or grouse. Since I switched to 20 ga, I am getting almost no "blown-to-hamburger" birds and a lot fewer "downed birds with legs" (i.e. birds you knock down but outrun the dogs once they hit the ground). My assumption is that the 20 ga is more of a kill or miss gun. I think that the increased number of pellets in a 12 ga gives more wounded birds on the outsides of the pattern.
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I just bought a 20 ga 28" Super Sport and I shoot skeet and trap. However, I bought the Super Sport for hunting and sporting clays, not skeet. In skeet, you shoot doubles at many of the stations and this becomes a problem with a semi-auto since it throws shells quite a distance. If you are going to get serious about skeet, you will need to start reloading your own shells to afford the game. I noticed that the Super Sport seems to throw the shells very close to shooter, hopefully by design, but you still have to bend over and pick them up. Picking up hulls becomes a real pain when you are shooting 150 rounds a session. Most skeet shooters use over and under guns for just this reason. The better shooters use tube guns. These are 12 ga o/u with a set of tubes that reduce the gauge to 20, 28 ga or 410. When I got into skeet last year, I decided to shoot 20 ga, since this is what I hunt with for pheasant, and I had Kolar 20 ga reduction tubes made for a Beretta 686 black onyx o/u field gun that I don't use much any longer. The reason I decided to "tube" a 12 ga is the weight of the gun. In skeet, you need a heavy gun to aid in follow-through for the passing shots. As my instructors always say "in Skeet, follow-through is everything". The Kolar tubes cost $700 which is a lot less than a Super Sport or a new dedicated skeet tube gun (Kolar skeet guns with a complete tube set run around $9000).
Back to the Super Sport. I really love this gun as a field gun for pheasant. I could have gone with the 20 ga cordoba (the same gun without the stainless steel receiver) and saved $100, but I like the looks of the Super Sport. It patterns lead and 20 ga steel extremely well with the factory chokes. Shooting 20 ga steel in North Dakota and Iowa was the main reason that I went with the Super Sport. Having four 3" steel 20 ga loads in the gun has increased my bird average impressively. I knocked down about 40% of my pheasants this year on the third shot, not something I can do with my 20 ga o/u.
Another comment on skeet. I started shooting skeet with a 20 ga Montefeltro and the lightness of the gun really caused problems. With a heavier gun, the follow-through is automatic due to the mass of the gun. With the 20 ga Monte, you have to consciously "push" the gun through the target to get adequate follow-through. This greatly adds to the challenge of skeet shooting. The official Kolar sheet guns are very heavy probably in the 10 to 11 lb range.
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OK. I put a Limbsaver 10401 on the SBEII and it makes a world of difference. The 3.5 #2 loads are now acceptable. Still a kick, but no longer scary. Normal #2 and #4 steel 3" duck loads no problem at all. I think Benelli needs to get together with LimbSaver. The new gel pads that they are selling are just not doing the job. I was so impressed with the 10401 that I ordered a 10400 speed mount pad for my 20 ga Super Sport. Very nice recoil pad.
There is a small problem with the LimbSaver 10401 and the 2008 model SBEII. Benelli extended the stock about 3/8" and now the LimbSaver insert does not fit as tightly as it should. I needed to put a little tape around the top and bottom of the insert (actually I added the tape to the inside of the stock) to make it fit snuggly. No such problem with the 10400 and the Super Sport. The Super Sport stock is the same as the older SBEII and the inserts fits very well.
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I just traded in a camo M1 28" 12 ga to Wilderness Fish & Game in Sauk City WI. The gun was not used very much and their gunsmith just completely went through and cleaned the gun. It has the original Benelli case, all of the shims and all of the factory chokes. They are asking $650 for it. Their number is: 800.589.8405 ask for Wally.
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Check the waterfowler forum for a thread on the Limbsaver recoil pad. I asked a question about shooting 3.5 " steel loads and got back several answers that all included adding a Limbsaver to reduce recoil. The new Benelli pads are ergonomic gel pads while the Limbsaver in a rubber pad structured to dissipate the felt recoil. I just put a Limbsaver 10401 on my SBEII but I have not shot 3.5" steel loads as yet. The factory Benelli pad (14" LOP on new SBEII) kicked my butt with 3.5" loads but noticeably reduced felt recoil with 3" steel loads relative to my old M1 camo.
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I was on the phone to both Limbsaver and Benellli today and I learned a few things.
1) Benelli does not make a flat recoil pad for the new comfortech stocks, just the ergonomic pad with the ridge.
2) All new 2008 comfortech stocks take the same pop-in pad pad including my 20 ga SuperSport. (after about a 15 min wait, Benelli USA was very helpful.) This might be true for older comfortech stocks.
3) The LimbSaver precision fit 10401 or 10400 recoil pad will fit any new 2008 comfortech stock 12ga or 20 ga. (The folks at LimbSaver are very nice and very helpful.) They will not fit some of the older SuperSport 20 ga synthetic stocks, but if your stock takes one of the new ergonomic Benelli pop-in pads then it will fit the 10400 or 10401.
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Thanks for all the input. I just purchased a LimbSaver 10401 and installed it yesterday. It's just a touch longer than the stock 14" LOP recoil pad, but it feels nice mounted. Does Benelli make a recoil pad that snaps into a SBEII that does not have the angle? I think part of my problem is that the angle doesn't quite fit me.
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I just fired 3.5" steel loads through my new SBEII and boy, do they kick. Do any of you waterfowlers shoot 3.5" on a regular basis. If so, what brand of shells and shot size are you using? Also, what do you do to reduce the recoil? My normal duck loads (3" steel #4 and #2) shoot fine through the SBEII with noticeably less recoil than my old M1. The 3.5" kick will take some getting used to.
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I don't know if this helps, but the new batch of 2008 SBEII Comfortechs have a stock that is about 3/8" longer than normal. They come with the 14 LOP Comfortech pad but the LOP measures 14 3/8. It's a little more length and you could get up to 14 7/8 with a 14.5 LOP pad. I talked to Benelli and the said that they tried to make a 15" LOP pad but it did not work out so they increased the stock length a bit for those who want a longer LOP.
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I had the same problem with a 20 ga Montefeltro. Kicked hard until I replaced the factory pad with a limb saver.
Just picked up a SBEII Comfortech. Shot it for the first time today. 3.5" steel loads kick like a mule, very impressive. However, my #2 and #4 steel duck loads give noticeably less recoil than my old M1 and trap loads are a breeze. Very,very nice shot gun.
I patterned the gun with IC and Mod crio chokes at 22 and 32 yards. The crio chokes give beautiful patterns with both steel and lead. The gun shoots straight and fits me perfectly right out of the box. No problem at all cycling 2 3/4 inch, 1&1/8 oz, 7.5 shot, trap/skeet loads after just 6 3.5" steel and 9 3" steel loads cycled through the gun. However, I did disassemble the gun completely last night including removing the recoil spring (which was coated with a heavy grease!!!) and oiled it with Benelli oil before I fired it the first time .
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Actually, I had a 28" 20ga Monte bought last January that takes the extended crio chokes. Sold it to a friend so I could get a 20 ga SuperSport (even longer extended crio chokes). My friend loves the Monte. I notice that the new 26" 20 ga Monte takes the mobil choke. Is this true for the new Monte 28" 20 ga? Very confusing. By the way, the factory 20 ga extended crio chokes pattern lead and steel extremely well. No after market chokes needed.
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Tucker, the error is over. You are going to have to change your signature :-)
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Well, so much for the famous Benelli recoil problem. Now what will the Benelli haters complain about?
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My new SBEII definitely came stock with a 14" LOP recoil pad, but the LOP is 14 3/8". With at least some of the new SBEII, you will have a 14 3/4" LOP if you use the 14 3/8 gel pad. The website does not say a thing about it. I had to wait (and wait, and wait) for a live person by phone to get the info about the "new" LOP on the latest batch of SBEII. To reiterate my question, has anyone compared the recoil using a 14" LOP pad to a 13.5" LOP pad. Is there much of a difference?
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I started shooting trap and skeet this year because I couldn't hit anything with a new 20 ga Montefeltro that I purchased Dec. 2007.
Some hints:
1) Go to a gunsmith and get your gun "fit" to you. My Monte had to be shortened by 1/2" to fit me correctly and I had a better recoil pad added while I was at it - cost $100.
2) Your UltraLight is actually a bit of a challenge to shoot due to the light weight. Unlike heavier guns, you will have to "push" your UltraLight through the target to get proper follow-through. The lack of mass cuts down on the intertia of the gun. You will really notice this when you start shooting skeet.
3) Pattern your gun with the loads that you are going to shoot. The drop and cast is easily adjustable in the Benelli, take advantage of it. Remember that Benellis shoot "high" compared to American guns. Once you get used to it, you will like it a lot better since you get to "see" the clay explode or bird actually getting hit and folding. It is not covered by the barrel.
3) Don't worry about matching field loads while trap and skeet shooting. You will kill your shoulder shooting field loads for trap or skeet no matter what gun you are using. I just shoot skeet with a couple of boxes of whatever field loads I will be using prior to the season or a specific trip. This includes 3" 20 ga steel loads that I have to shoot for pheasant in public areas in Iowa, SD, and ND (not to mention ducks). Once you get used to your gun shooting clays, adjusting to different shells is actually fairly easy. Steel is fun due to the shortened lead for close shots and the extended lead for long shots (steel leaves the barrel at a higher velocity than lead, but slows down faster).
4) Don't over-choke your gun. I have been using the IM choke in my Monte and new SS 20 ga. for pheasant all year with great results. After patterning steel, I will never use more than a IM choke for steel. I use a Comp-n-Choke ported skeet choke for game farm birds that are sitting tight. Take advantage of the patterning board from 32 and 22 yds to get the details on your patterns with different shot loads and chokes. You can also practice snap shooting to make sure that you are reliably putting the gun up in the correct position. After getting my gun fit, this has helped me more than shooting 4K rounds of clays.
5) A quote at my Trap&Skeet club is "A shotgun pattern at 40 yards is about the size of a hula-hoop. If you missed your target, you did something very wrong." After patterning my gun, I know this to be true (at least with IM and M chokes) and I do something very wrong about 17% of the time with clays (I'm getting better :-)). After a year of trap and especially skeet, I can now hit passing birds with some confidence. Lead and follow-through is everything.
6) I have shot Fiocchi Golden Pheasant #5 in 2 3/4 and 3" in both 12 and 20 ga for eight years without a problem. I really like this load for pheasant.
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I have a new SS 20 gauge and I just removed the recoil spring for cleaning (it needed it). I notice that the retaining bolt has a threaded plastic "lock" ring just above the metal threads. I heated mine with a heat gun for removal and managed not to destroy the plastic lock ring. Does anyone know if Benelli is still using locktite with plastic lock rings. Do we still need to heat the newer spring tubes to remove the spring retaining bolt?
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Sorry to bring this up again but I have a new Super Sport 20 ga and what are the opinions on cleaning the recoil spring by removing the retaining nut rather than flushing the tube with with solvent. Benelli via phone suggests just running solvent down the recoil tube, moving the bolt back and forth a couple of times then letting the mess drain out the bottom of the recoil tube (stock removed, of course). Let dry for a couple of hours, apply oil down the recoil tube and reassemble the stock. Following a thread on this forum, I removed the retaining retaining nut, took out the recoil spring and cam, and cleaned them up on the bench. My local gun smith suggested putting locktite on the threads to reassemble. However, my retaining nut has a plastic lock washer with threads inside the recoil tube. (I am lucky that I did not melt the washer when a applied heat to the nut to remove it.) Because of the plastic "lock thread", I am not sure that I need to reapply LockTite. Has anyone had a problem with the recoil tube retaining nut loosening during firing?
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I have a new SBEII comfort tech 12 ga on layaway and I noticed that the recoil pad is the 14" LOP but the actual LOP is 14 3/8" (actually I measure it at 14 1/4"). I contacted Benelli, and was informed that the most recent versions of the SBEII comfort tech have a lengthened stock so that folks wanting a LOP longer than 14 3/8" can be accommodated. I have already purchased a 13 1/2" LOP pad to use on my Super Sport 20 ga. My question is: How bad is the recoil shooting 3.5" shells with the SBEII using the 13.5" recoil pad?
SBE2 Pad?
in Benelli
Posted
Worn:
That actually confirms what the Benelli specialist told me. She said that the stock had been extended in the "latest batch" of SBEII. I spoke with her in December before I bought my gun when I noticed the pad difference between my 20 ga Super Sport and the 2008 SBEII that I ended up buying. I checked out all three of the 2008 SBEII at Gander Mountain and all had the 14 LOP pad on the stock. All of the new SBEII that are showing up where I purchased my SBEII also have the 14 LOP. It looks like the change occurred sometime during the 2008 SBEII production run.