MeanGreen
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Posts posted by MeanGreen
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Welcome back MG ! It's been a while!
Later,
H:):)kster
Thanks Hookster, I have been completely immersed in updating this house we just bought. So I haven't even looked at my Benelli in a couple of months. We'll have to try and hook up for a surf next time we're down your way.
MeanGreen
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This is the best summary I can give you. A list of the 13 parts the ATF states are in the M4.
1) Receiver
2) Barrel
3) Bolt
4) Bolt Carrier
5) Gas Piston
6) Trigger Housing
7) Trigger
8) Hammer
9) Disconnector
10) Buttstocks
11) Forearm
12) Magazine body
13) Followers
If you want to add a full length mag tube then you'll have to replace 2 other parts. Currently there are US made followers and forearms on the market. Mesa Tactical is making a US made pistol grip buttstock to be released in April, so that will make three. I sent a follow up letter to the ATF regarding the Mesa pistol grip stock and it will count as one US made part since it is a fixed non-telescoping pistol grip buttstock.
As long as you swap out 2 other parts with your US made full lenth mag tube you are safe. Only have 10 imported parts in total.
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Take a few extra shots for CA for us. Maybe we can make some change here "You can believe in" just like in MA.
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Nice job Panabax! Thanks for attempting to tackle this.
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i just wonder why the botac system doesn't feature full spec picatinny rails?
It actually does have the 1913 rails. Here's the link to the description and pictures on the website.
http://www.botachtactical.com/kzm4.html
I bought this one and the Surefire M80. I returned the Surefire and kept the KZ forend. I just liked the fact that its all metal and feels really sturdy. Also it didn't hurt that its made in the U.S. and that it was cheaper than the Surefire forend.
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They have re-invented the wheel. Fail.
For all the 922r whiners, it's still a PG stock. For the rest of us, it is still non-collapsing, and looks about as "cool" as a toyota Prius.
Actually Ubo, this will count as one US made part. Its a non-collapsable single unit pistol grip stock. That's all the ATF cares about.
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If you guys would post your letters, that would be great. What address are you sending your letters to? Is it dependent on your location in the US? I assume that you are sending a picture of your M4. I am starting my letter this weekend. I will post mine once received! Thanks!
Best, John
John,
Here is the address you want to send it to. Don't bother asking or emailing your local ATF branch to write you a letter, because they won't even know what 922 r is. Plus the Firearms technology branch is where they make the determination of the number of parts.
Attn: Firearms Technology Chief
ATF Firearms Technology Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25401-9431
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Hey ShadowShooter and Hookster,
Would you guys mind posting your response letters also? It would probably be good for everyone to see the consistency in the responses from the ATF as well as any differences in the answers that they may have given.
Pleasure.. Thanks for the SOCOM 16 post. I shot that hog the other day. That thing is sick!!! -
Knowles,
According to the letter I received it is 13 imported parts. Under 922r, you if you want to change your gun to a non-sporting configuration, you need to have no more than 10 imported parts. That means you'll have to swap out three parts if you want to extend the magazine or add an extension. Luckly there are enough US made parts to do this. There are US made full lenth tubes or extensions, followers and forends. With a soon to be released US made fixed pistol grip stock from Mesa Tactical. So you'll be fairly safe with four soon.
As to how to prove somethings US made, that's anyone's guess. I suggest writing to the Firearms Technology Chief in Needysburg, WV. Call your local ATF office for their address. Ask them all of these questions to make sure you are on the right track.
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As I obsess over when I am going to get my tube, I check Kip's website every hour for updates. I just found out he updated the front page for expected delivery dates. Here is what's posted.
IMPORTANT! Status Update as of October 10, 2009; All completed orders placed through August 5th will ship NLT Wednesday Oct 14, 2009 unless otherwise pending payment. Orders between Aug 5th, 2009 and Oct 9, 2009 are expected to ship no later than November 1st, 2009. Credit Card authorizations on orders placed between July 11, 2009 and Sept 5, 2009 will have expired by that time, and customers will be contacted directly to determine how/if they wish to renew their orders. Any renewed order will retain their original place in line and ship almost immediately. Thank you for your continued patronage and support that has contributed to our growth this year. We look forward to serving you for years to come.
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I use a Specter Gear sling on most of my long arms. I just ordered another one today for my new Socom 16. Here's a link to their Benelli sling.
http://www.spectergear.com/specterstore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=812&idcategory=29
The one in the link is 1 1/4" wide and has a 1" loop attachment point that secures to the stock. I use their buttstock shell carrier/rear sling adapter though so I use that as the stock end attachment point. It's seen here:
http://www.spectergear.com/specterstore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1839&idcategory=14
and you can use the sling rear adapter without the shell carrier portion if you want.
Hookster
I second the CQB sling from Spector Gear. Its a great sling. the rear attachment to the stock is smaller than the forward attachment. Its a great product for the price.
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Steve1968LS2,
They are legal in CA. CA's law only states you can't have a semi-auto shotgun that has a mag tube holding more than 10 rounds. As long as you don't have a collapsable stock or detachable clip.
This is what is prohibited under the CA Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989:
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
- (A) A folding or telescoping stock.
- (B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
- (A) A folding or telescoping stock.
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Got a call from Kip Sat morning. Re-ordered as mine had expired. Hope to get it today or in the next few days.
Good news! Thanks Hookster and Decodence for keep those of us who ordered after 7/11 updated. I ordered mine on 8/7 no email yet though.
Now I want to see if they truly do show up on a donkey like Texas Skeeter said, then it would make perfect sense of why they are taking so long. Donkeys are very slow creatures. UPS or the Postal Service would have been a better choice of carriers for Kip.
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If anyone is interested in getting one. I know that National Police Supply has a couple in stock. Sean is absolutely the best at customer service. Would love it if there were more people running businesses like him out there.
Here is their website.
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Hey Hookster,
Well, I am returning my Surefire forend and going with the KZ forend instead after trying out the two. I don't know if it was having to pay $230 for it as opposed to $190 for the KZ forend or just the weird rubber upper on the forend. I truly like the fact that the KZ is all metal where the Surefire is metal and rubber. The Surefire forend seemed like it would wear out a lot quicker. I already noticed some wear on the rubber just from taking it on and off twice, so I am sure that would get worse with time. Anyways just my two cents if anyone gives a rat's ass.
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I had almost the exact same stock from Choate on a Mossberg 930 SPX. And I really was under impressed by the quality. The pistol grip is hollow and at the bottom of the grip there isn't any sort of cap to close it off. So you can get all kinds of spiders or whatever making their homes up in there. The spacer between the stock and pad isn't optional. For some reason instead of making a one piece stock they added this 'spacer' to hold onto the stock tube. In my opinion its very cheaply made and looks it too. Benelli's stocks are way above the Choate made stocks.
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Sukhoi_fan,
Mitch on the Mesa thread said that the Urbino fixed grip pistol grip stock will be between $130-$170. Which I thought was surprising, but I won't argue with, if that's that they want to sell them for.
I doubt we'll ever see a $300 substitute (or even less than $500) for the factory collapsible stock due to the large investment required to get something like that going (in the $50k range, if not more). Even that shorter LOP fixed stock Mesa Tactical is working on looks like it will cost in the $500 range. -
Thanks Tank, I'll try that out.
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Hookster,
Great review. Man, you gun looks awesome with that Sidearmor rail. Now I know why you went with the Surefire instead of the KZ. I am also thinking the same thing, if and when Mesa comes out with their Urbino and I going back to the stock forend. I'll also probably then have to pick up the Sidearmor rail after that.
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I have a couple of scratches and scrapes on the barrel on my M4. What is the best way to touch these up to prevent any corrosion? I live on the coast in what seem like a never ending fog bank, so I need to worry a lot about corrosion on my gun.
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I just spoke with Kip. I ordered my tube on 8/7/09. He said that they were clearing up their backlog and that they are pretty much keeping in line with their 6-8 week projections. He told me that I should hear something from them in a couple of weeks. So good news that they are getting around to these. Like everyone has said before, very nice guy and very forth coming about everything they are dealing with.
Like the dyslexic I am. the first time around today I dialed the wrong number and got a number no longer valid message. I looked again and dialed the correct number.
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Hey Hookster,
I already told you this in a PM, but after putting on my Surefire forend on my M4 I found out that the fit issue wasn't the KZ forend but my M4. The magazine holder bracket under barrel I think was shaped a little weird. It wasn't fully flat where it met the forend. So I ended up filing it down a bit and the Surefire forend fit fine.
I knew it was my gun and not the forend because both of the KZ and Surefire forends had the same exactely size spacing issue. I took off the barrel and eye balled the bracket and saw that it looked a little warped. Maybe when they were putting on the finish or something the left a bit too much goop on.
On that note, after putting on the Surefire forend I actually think I like the KZ forend more. Since the KZ forend is all metal as opposed to metal and rubber like the Surefire.
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skeeter,
The Shift key is like a single serving CAPS locks.
Check it out.
Also try turning off Rush and getting outside every once in a while.
It will work wonders for you.
I don't think in a few years when we are half way to doubling the national debt by 9 Trillion dollars that there will be any way of blaming Bush any more. Besides the current financial crisis started in the sub-prime mortgage market which the Dems tried as hard as possible to open up to as many unqualified borrowers as possible. All you have to do is look back to 2005 and 2006 when Schumer, Dodd and Frank were doing their best to block any sort of legislation to reign in lending standards to see who is at fault. Under Obama we've entered the area of irresponbility, "I inherited this." This in no way excuses doubling the national debt from 9 Trillion to 18 Trillion in a 10 year period of time.
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I think the most damning evidence of his inability to be our president is the speed at which he is bankrupting this country and destroying the freedoms that most everyday Americans have taken for granted over the last few hundred years. I feel like I am watching the US turn into my worst liberal nightmare. I think one of my buddies said it best, "I think they just voted in Satan."
M4 & 922r -Anyone made any find more parts yet?
in Benelli
Posted
As Stranger Danger said, there is the Urbino coming out next month from Mesa Tactical. Here's the link for reference. So now you easily have 4 U.S. made parts, which easily puts up below the 3 required.
http://www.mesatactical.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=722&p=4