Jump to content

DFWSFO

Members
  • Posts

    60
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    2

Posts posted by DFWSFO

  1. I generally agree with @ClackClackBAM, good advice.

     

    I’d also add that you’ll want to look at a couple of key upgrades:

     

    -Oversized bolt release: the stock one sucks, I have the GG&G one myself and like it a lot.

    -new shell lifter (TTI, FFT). The stock one can really cut up your thumb, I’d go aftermarket 

    -Oversized safety. Makes manipulation a lot easier. I have a Dave’s Metal Works one, but there’s a few good options out there.

     

    -Forend: I’d honestly ask yourself if you need an MLOK forend as opposed to an IWC light mount. The real benefit of MLOK is getting the longer forend so that you can reduce barrel shadow with a light. But if you’re getting the 8” one, I don’t see the benefit myself.

     

    -Trigger: I did not like the stock trigger myself, went with FFT. I love it. YMMV. 
     

     

  2. My Background

    The M4 is my first shotgun, and I have never taken a formal training class with it. My M4 haD less than 200 rounds through it before this class. 

    My Equipment

    The Shotgun

    M4 with a steel 7 round tube, C-stock in the middle position, and the following mods:

    • Surefire Dual Fuel Light on an IWC QD Mount
    • GG&G Bolt Release
    • TTI Shell Lifter
    • Aimpoint T2 on ADM Low Mount
    • FFT Trigger Set and A&S Housing
    • IWC QD Rear Mount
    • VTAC 2 Point Sling

    Tactical Gear

    SOE 12 GA Micro Rig 

    The Class

    This was a “Basic Tactical Shotgun” run by a well-regarded local outfit that I’ve trained with before. It’s the first of a three class progression. This class focused heavily on a handful of items:

    • Understanding how the shotgun patterns and functions at different distances and with different loads. We ran a variety of 00 Buck, #4 Buck, and slug loads at 7, 15, 25, and 50 yards. We then ran the slugs all the way out to 100. This was done from standing, supported kneeling, and even prone position. 
    •  Learning how to do combat and speed reloads. This was a major emphasis of the training and one that was eye-opening for me. Dynamically loading while engaging multiple reactive targets was fun.
    • Doing “slug select” drills to dynamically change out the round that you have.
    • Concluded with a “shoot house” engaging paper targets 

    The temperature hovered in the low to mid 90s for most of the training, requiring us to build in plenty of water and cooling breaks. 

     

    Lessons Learned

    1. Know what ammo your gun likes: I can say with confidence that I’m never using Fiocchi #4 Buck again. Had multiple, repeated failures to eject/extract that led to a lot of (unexpected, but valuable) experience in failure clearance drills. This was not an issue with either my Federal Tactical slugs or PMC 00 Buck. 
    2. Malfunction drills require a lot more thinking than an AR or a handgun: It’s not as easy as “tap, rack, bang” with an M4. For example, FTEs because of an extended crimp are not as simple as cycling the bolt and smacking the receiver. Getting a live round back into the chamber once you clear also requires practiced discipline with the manual of arms. 
    3. You feel every ounce of weight you drop off of this platform: The M4 is a heavy beast, especially when you’re using it for several hours during a 90 degree day. Dropping the Mesa side saddle helped, but I’m looking forward to replacing my steel tube with a titanium one. I may even SBS this thing and drop down to 14” barrel.
    4. This is an impressively accurate gun: With a 2 MOA red dot and Truball slugs, I was making consistent spine box hits at 75 yards, and was hitting “minute of man” at 100. I was not truthfully not expecting that out of this gun. 
    5. For my fellow lefties, you have to work on modifying manual of arms: While the safety can be swapped and things like combat reloads might be easier because of visibility into the bolt, other drills are not. For example, grabbing a round off of a chest rig to do a slug select can be tricky. You have to rotate the gun, tuck it into your armpit, use your left hand to current round and hold it open long enough to drop in the new slug. 

     

    Anyway, it was a very eye opening experience for me. I’m still sore (birdshot didnt come in in time, so ran the entire course with buck and slugs) and a touch dehydrated, but well worth the time and energy. 

    • Like 1
    • Upvote 7
  3. FWIW I feel like MatchSaverz are a niche product. Makes a ton of sense for competition, but questionable for HD use.
     

    A side saddle is worth it if you want to be able to just grab and go and have some optionality (e.g. mix of slugs and buckshot). 

  4. 51 minutes ago, MNtadpole said:

    @Sigma05 LOL I might venture to say that they were asking about the match saver on the fore grip. 

    Looks like it’s a Taccom matchsaver on a Briley MLOK adapter that allows it to attach to the MLOK forend

  5. Of course! At the end of the day, you’ve got to set up your weapon the way that it’s going to be most practical for you. In my case, because I run the stock in the middle position, I would not be able to get good sight picture (I’m also, shall we say, vertically efficient at 5’6” ?). Scalarworks makes great stuff and the RMR is a solid optic (have one on my Glock!). 

    • Upvote 1
  6. I’m looking into getting a Salvo 12 suppressor, but if I do, I would want to SBS my (currently stock 18.5” barrel) M4. As I understand it though, the SBS barrel is not threaded for chokes, which is how the Salvo 12 attaches. Has anybody encountered this or found a way around it? Any suggestions? 

  7. 31 minutes ago, SnidelyWhiplash said:


    Thank you for posting those. If the SRO were more durable that’s exactly the setup I would get. As it is I’m happy with the height of the stock ghost ring sights so I’m leaning towards the Scalarworks SYNC and RMR, even though it means putting up with the busy co-witness sight picture I’m not fond of. But I’m still debating between that and DFWSFO’s Aimpoint T2 setup.

    @SnidelyWhiplash here are a couple of photos of my setup. Always difficult to get decent sight shots, but hope it’s helpful. Note that I run my C-stock in the middle position.

    26E94C76-47FD-4E0E-A90C-6F9A5A7FA47C.jpeg

    487D2BE5-D976-4A3B-AA7C-FB7FB5AE09E5.jpeg

  8. 22 hours ago, ClackClackBAM said:

    Okay, so maybe I'm doing something wrong here..

    I just installed the 7 round OEM tube and installed a CarrierComp Wolf spring and a CC follower. Even within the spring cap about half an inch out of the tube I STILL CAN'T get seven rounds of Federal LE 9 pellet Buckshot in there. 

    I'm going to take the spring and follower out to make sure it's properly seated, but I was wondering if any of you have another suggestion other than changing my choice of ammo. I just bought a case of it, so it will be feeding these shells for a while.

    Hmm, the only difference in my setup is that I’m using the OEM follower instead of CC. Don’t know how much of a difference that makes. 

  9. 48 minutes ago, les_garten said:

    Fear is the mind killer...

    I guess there are limits somewhere in regards to length.  I have a M4 LE as well, mine was the same way when I got it.  Would not load seven, and I think the initial feeling is disappointment that your new shiny badazz LE Benelli won't do it's capacity.  Mine is ok with just goofing with the keeper by leaving it loose.  Last round is a bit of a push.

    Here's how I would handle it if a new shell wouldn't load 7.  Just load 6, put in number 7.  Push it in and get a feeling for how many more centimeters of space you need and clip off like twice that off the spring.

    I had the same issue with mine, then I purchased the Wolff replacement spring from FFT. That allows me to get 7 rounds of Federal 00 in the tube. However, even longer 00 rounds (like Rio) will likely be an issue. 

  10. How meaningful is the difference between Airtech and non-Airtech pads? I’ve ran a ton of full power slugs through mine (and this is my first shotgun) and I find it to be incredibly manageable from a recoil perspective. That’s with the stock “hockey puck” of a pad on the collapsible stock. 

    If it were me, I’d just get the 10403 and call it a day. 

  11. 12 hours ago, SnidelyWhiplash said:

    Thank for the replies; I didn’t realize the SRO was a less rugged optic so I guess that makes the RMR the best choice.

    DFWSFO: I considered other optics on the factory pic rail but was concerned with the comments on this forum about the weakness of the pic rail given its sight groove. I also wanted access to the iron sights in case of a failure of the optic. Has the factory pic rail been an issue for you? Does your mount have a quick detach?

    So, I use a Mesa Tactical side saddle, which replaces the factory pic rail. My Aimpoint Mount is QD.

    However, FFT is making a mil-spec factory pic rail replacement that could meet your needs. 

  12. The SRO was developed by Trijicon to provide a purpose-built pistol red dot for competition, which the RMR is not. That’s why the SRO has a broader FOV and, most importantly for pistol users, the ability to change the battery without removing the entire optic (something you have to do with the RMR). However, Trijicon’s own reps have gone on record to say that the SRO isn’t built to the same durability standards as the RMR, since the taller glass is more prone to breakage.  

    Before you make the call on an optic and mount, I would encourage you think about what your preferred sight picture is. I have a collapsible stock on my M4, and I find that with it set to my preferred LOP, the factory irons (which I believe the Sync can co-witness with) are actually too low for my taste. This is why I have an Aimpoint T2 on an ADM low mount using the factory pic rail. I find that that gives me the perfect sight picture. YMMV. 

    • Upvote 4
  13. I have an M4 that came with a factory 7 round tube and, now that I have an FFT/Wolff spring in it, holds 7 rounds of my preferred 2 3/4 shells. 

    That being said, every pound matters on these guns. I’m wondering if weight savings of the CarrierComp tube are actually noticeable over the factory tube. I’ve often found that scales can say one thing, but practical use says another. 

    What’s the experience of the group? 

  14. Many fantastic comments in this thread. I would encourage you to do your research, try out a few different firearms, and figure out the one that works best for you. AR15s, pistols, and shotguns can all be effective HD tools depending on the user. 

    • Upvote 1
  15. I went with a 50 yard zero using slugs, which felt like a good “general purpose” zero for my Aimpoint T2. A couple of inches high at 25, a couple of inches low at 100 (translation: “minute of man”). This is for my home defense load, which consists of Federal Flite Control 00 Buckshot with some PDX1 segmented slugs on the side saddle. Given how tight the Flite Control stuff patterns, the slug zero works for me. YMMV depending on your preferred ammo. 

    • Upvote 1
×
×
  • Create New...