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M4 LE is 922r Compliant?


les_garten

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I have a few questions and some potential answers.

 

Why are there so many LE versions 11721 models and others for sale on Gunbroker? These are new from Dealers with Brick and Mortar Gun shops. I thought they couldn't sell these to Civilians?

 

They are also not marked LE on the Receiver, but have the Label overlay on the end of the box showing 11721 for instance.

 

So I called Benelli about these guns and asked 3 questions

 

1) Will Benelli do warranty work or repair on an LE gun from a Non LE Person? ANSWER: YES

 

2) Is an LE version 922r compliant if it is owned by a Civilian? ANSWER: YES

 

3) Can a Civilian Modify an LE version with a Titanium 7 Round Mag tube and maintain it's 922r status? ANSWER: YES if you use US made parts.

 

What do you guys think about this stuff?

 

600px-ZL-Benelli.jpg

600px-ZL-Benelli.jpg

Edited by les_garten
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Considering that I'm not aware of anyone who has been prosecuted for 922® violations when it comes to the Benelli M4, I think you'd be pretty safe. About the only place this might matter is if you're playing shooting games like three gun, and the RO wants proof of compliance.

 

It sounds like an opinion from Benelli. I'd be curious to see if they have any of that supported with documentation from the BATF.

 

If I was buying right now, I'd get myself a new production 11703, then add the following parts;

- Benelli OEM Collapsible Stock

- Carriercomp full length titanium magazine tube

- Carriercomp spec Wolff Spring

- Carriercomp Magazine Follower

- Carriercomp Bolt Handle (I'd wait or keep the OEM if I couldn't find one)

- Carriercomp/Geissele Hammer

- FFT Trigger

- FFT Disconnector

- FFT Reproduction Handguards

- TTI Shell Elevator

- DMW Oversized Safety Button

- GG&G Oversized Bolt Release

- ScalarWork Top Rail (If you don't want an RMR, replace the top rail with a Carriercomp or FFT top rail)

- Trijicon RMR, preferably a LED or Adjustible model

- Meprolights Night Sights

- Ava Tactical Weapon Light Mount

- Surefire Outdoorsman Body/Tailcap and a Surefire M600U 500 Lumen Head

- IWC MOE QD Sling Point for the Collapsible Stock (ejection port side mounted for right handed setup)

- BlueForceGear VCAS Padded Push Button Sling

 

This setup would give you well in excess the number of 922® compliant parts necessary;

1. Full Length Magazine Tube

2. Magazine Follower

3. Hammer

4. Trigger

5. Disconnector

6. Reproduction Handguards

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Hoped you'd see this post and reply.

 

The reason I was interested in the LE is that I wouldn't have to replace the trigger parts and the handguards. There are a few bits on your list I wasn't aware of like the DMW safety. Most of the other pieces I have or am acquiring. I did substitute an Elzetta Bravo for the light.

 

I don't feel lucky enough to find the CC Bolt handle, just don't see that happening.

 

I don't like the over-sized Bolt releases, so I think I'll leave that stock.

 

The rest I have or is on my list.

 

I think the LE model sales must be an agreement with the distributors and gun shops to sell them only to LE officers and depts. Maybe the recent law has allowed them to sell to civilians? Or they are just doing it. The LE models are obviously importable guns and are not illegal to sell to civilians by depts that are retiring them. Ipso facto, they are 922r compliant by their very nature.

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I prefer the shape of the DMW button. When the safety is on, I can feel it pressing against my trigger finger slightly telling me that it is on. I then modified the safety spring weight so that it is easier to press. It's still safe and firm, but you don't have to break your firing grip in order to press it.

 

Much of of the other aftermarket components are better than the OEM, so they're worth the upgrade alone on their own merits even if 922r didn't exist. The only one that is kind of a shrug is the FFT handguards. You want things like the titanium full length tube and it's better spring anyway. So I wouldn't pay a premium for a model when you're going to want to swap much of the parts out anyway.

 

These other her models shouldn't be sold to the civilian public. The dealers are supposed to be selling them to people with the appropriate LEO letterheads. Once the person with the law enforcement issues model has it, they're free to sell it if they want. Basically exploiting the position.

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I prefer the shape of the DMW button. When the safety is on, I can feel it pressing against my trigger finger slightly telling me that it is on. I then modified the safety spring weight so that it is easier to press. It's still safe and firm, but you don't have to break your firing grip in order to press it.

 

Much of of the other aftermarket components are better than the OEM, so they're worth the upgrade alone on their own merits even if 922r didn't exist. The only one that is kind of a shrug is the FFT handguards. You want things like the titanium full length tube and it's better spring anyway. So I wouldn't pay a premium for a model when you're going to want to swap much of the parts out anyway.

 

These other her models shouldn't be sold to the civilian public. The dealers are supposed to be selling them to people with the appropriate LEO letterheads. Once the person with the law enforcement issues model has it, they're free to sell it if they want. Basically exploiting the position.

 

Here's how I did the math and that it works out.

 

$1800 for an LE Model

 

minus $250 or so for the Collapsible stock that I would have to buy anyway

 

equals $1550 for the gun and I don't have a Pistol grip stock I don't want

 

minus $140 or so for the trigger parts I don't have to replace to do 922r compliance

 

equals $1410 for the base gun to work off of and I start out with a 7 round tube that is legal and the questionable 2nd type of cool that comes from having the LE label on the box??!!

 

So I figure one of these is only costing me $1410!

 

Is that a bad deal?

 

I thought that there wasn't much performance advantage in the FFT trigger and Geisselle hammer to justify an upgrade that wasn't needed.

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That's not a bad deal at that price point, I was thinking of when they were selling for 2200 - 2400 typically. I'd still replace the magazine tube with a titanium unit.

 

The trigger upgrades will get you a better trigger pull between the FFT trigger and disconnector. The Geissele hammer is a good upgrade. It is much tougher than the OEM or FFT one in my experience. Both the OEM and FFT hammer's showed some deformation along the face of the hammer from impacting the bolt carrier repeatedly. The Geissele just shows brunishing.

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That's not a bad deal at that price point, I was thinking of when they were selling for 2200 - 2400 typically. I'd still replace the magazine tube with a titanium unit.

 

The trigger upgrades will get you a better trigger pull between the FFT trigger and disconnector. The Geissele hammer is a good upgrade. It is much tougher than the OEM or FFT one in my experience. Both the OEM and FFT hammer's showed some deformation along the face of the hammer from impacting the bolt carrier repeatedly. The Geissele just shows brunishing.

 

I'm definitely doing everything on your list above pretty much. The trigger stuff will be deferred till the end basically. I'm adding the Ti mag to get back the weight ate up by the AVAdirect and the Elzetta light.

 

I won't do the handguards, I would rather change a trigger part if I had to. Nice thing about the LE it seems to me is I don't have to do it if I don't want to, or I can do it on my own schedule. I may ask someone how to get an answer from BATF about it.

 

Is the disconnector that important to the pull quality? I was just gonna ignore that part?

 

After looking at the TTI safety, the DMW does look a little better, it's a mystery why he doesn't just mill a groove and drop some red paint in it. I'm sure he's losing some sales because of that.

 

When you are teaching people how to shoot, the Red is danger concept is a nice easy one to explain.

Edited by les_garten
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There is also an oversized safety from X-Rail, I see it listed on Brownells. It's a little too much for me in terms of markings and so on. It appears to have a similar shaped head as the DMV one.

p_100017035_2.jpg

 

The disconnector won't affect the trigger pull at all since it is out of the picture by the time you are pulling the trigger again.

 

Which brand of titanium magazine tube are you going to do? If you're going to go carriercomp, you might want to get your order in ASAP. They take forever to have made.

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There is also an oversized safety from X-Rail, I see it listed on Brownells. It's a little too much for me in terms of markings and so on. It appears to have a similar shaped head as the DMV one.

p_100017035_2.jpg

 

The disconnector won't affect the trigger pull at all since it is out of the picture by the time you are pulling the trigger again.

 

Which brand of titanium magazine tube are you going to do? If you're going to go carriercomp, you might want to get your order in ASAP. They take forever to have made.

 

That Safety could be fixed, thanx! I am going to order the Carriercomp next week. Any ideas how far behind they are presently? I sent a messgae last week and never heard anything back from them.

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I'm hearing six month wait times are the norm right now with carriercomp. I put three on order on 10/22/2015. I know Marcy (Kip's wife and business partner) is going through some rather serious medical issues right now. So their delay has increased. I'll send you a PM about an option.

 

Most end up doing all the components for the trigger pack at the same time considering how cheap they are. But you could certainly get away with not adding it.

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I'm hearing six month wait times are the norm right now with carriercomp. I put three on order on 10/22/2015. I know Marcy (Kip's wife and business partner) is going through some rather serious medical issues right now. So their delay has increased. I'll send you a PM about an option.

 

Most end up doing all the components for the trigger pack at the same time considering how cheap they are. But you could certainly get away with not adding it.

 

Thanx, that was very nice of you!

 

I had to go look at myself in the mirror and ask if I would have done that, I'm still waitin' for an answer...

 

I need to do some more research on the trigger pack parts, I thought there wasn't a difference in trigger feel quality between them and the stock parts.

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I debated about it for a few minutes, but figured I didn't want to wait 8 days for it to end. Plus I didn't have any personal weapons to put the tube on myself.

 

The trigger pack from FFT is pretty nice. The trigger is coated in NP3, so it is really slick. You can really feel the difference in the trigger break. I've only heard of one person who had issues with the components. I'm not sure if he tried to return the parts for replacements or if there was something wrong with the trigger pack itself. This thread breaks down the parts and the installations process fairly well.

 

http://forums.benelliusa.com/showthread.php/32332-Benelli-M4-Complete-Trigger-Group-Assembly-Guide?highlight=benelli+m4+trigger

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