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shoot_anything_man
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  • 3 weeks later...
Using a farm crop to fuel transportation is absurd.

 

 

#1 There is a shortage of food in the world

 

#2 consider how much energy it takes to make etonal, and it only has aprox 75% the energy of gasoline. Your burning more to do the same job.

 

#3 Sugar cane, sugar beats. Whatever they choose, it drives up the prices. Look at what corn did. Food is through the roof the last 2-3 years.

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25%!!!!!! Into fuel!!!!!! Crazy!!!!

 

Only 25%. right now. They want to increase it. IF they could convert every kernal of corn into ethonol, without any tax dollars, we would still be way short of eneregy.

 

Corn is in EVRYTHING!

Corn flakes, almost every single box of Sweatened cerial, Devil dogs, granola bars, Hamburger buns ( yes, I have the package right here) and almost all Soda uses Corn syrup!!!!

 

Say what you want, I dont want FOOD in my gasoline tank.

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Also consider what it is doing to food supplie overseas. With the U.S. plowing fields to grow Ethanol foreign markets are forced to uproot irreplacable rain forest to make up the difference. Mankind has always had a bad habit of not planning for the future.

With the ever decreasing forest around the world it will eventually affect the ENTIRE world.

There is no perfect solution but there are better ones than food for fuel. Not to mention the subsidies that are given to farmers to grow corn for fuel.

My thought is if they want to grow it let them grow it but let the market dictate what they get paid, not the government.

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Meh, Ethanol reduces mileage. However, Ethanol DOES have a higher "effective" "octane rating" so to speak and allows the use of higher compression engines.

 

My point is this. If we were to go to Ethanol, car manufacturers could build engines around 13:1 or so vs. the current limit of around 11-11.5:1.

 

More hp/ci

 

I am a fan of this idea, but my current LS1 powered jalopie is only hurt by E85 (I can't run it with my current injecotrs/fuel mapping, but E10% is common in my area and will work in my vehicle) as it just kills mileage and since I am not going to go to thinner head-gaskets, different pistons, or advance my timing any, it does nothing for me except reduce the range I can drive before filling up and in some cases increase the cost I pay for the benefit/utility I get.

 

Moral: auto manufacturers and gas companies need to get togather and 100% phase out regular gasoline so that E85 or higer Ethanol % run engines can be safely operated without fear of getting the regular stuff and suffereing detonation. This would however cause issues because older engines would require re-mapping of the fuel delivery and possibly larger injectors.

 

Point being, the transition will be a *****, every expensive, and people will hate it. E85 is a gradual way of doing things, but it is a loss/loss in my opinion. Engines are obviously not allowed higher compression beause they are "flex-fuel" and must be able to run on 93* oct. minimum requirement as well as E85. So all you get is less miles per gallon when using E85. Period.

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I'll stick with my 93 octane petrol.

 

Ethanol offers some serious performance benefits if you build the engine specifically for it and take that into account during your fuel system setup and fuel mapping. Roughly every half point in compression that you add, is 15hp more. Since E85 allows 13-15:1 vs. the current industry cap of around 11.5:1, you are gaining an easy 50 horses with an E85 specific engine.

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Ethanol offers some serious performance benefits if you build the engine specifically for it and take that into account during your fuel system setup and fuel mapping. Roughly every half point in compression that you add, is 15hp more. Since E85 allows 13-15:1 vs. the current industry cap of around 11.5:1, you are gaining an easy 50 horses with an E85 specific engine.

 

Keep in mind that refineries reduce the octane on the base gasoline so that when adding ethanol the octane rating hits the target number.

Now if they left the original ocatane rating of the base gasoline then added the Ethanol that would be a different story.

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Keep in mind that refineries reduce the octane on the base gasoline so that when adding ethanol the octane rating hits the target number.

Now if they left the original ocatane rating of the base gasoline then added the Ethanol that would be a different story.

 

Are you referring to E10% or E85? If they are doing that to E85 all I have to say is GHEY!

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Ethanol offers some serious performance benefits if you build the engine specifically for it and take that into account during your fuel system setup and fuel mapping. Roughly every half point in compression that you add, is 15hp more. Since E85 allows 13-15:1 vs. the current industry cap of around 11.5:1, you are gaining an easy 50 horses with an E85 specific engine.

 

Two of my very good friends tuned there Turbo and Supercharged Mustangs for E85 and I must say it isn't worth it at all. Sure you can run higher timing with it but it has more drawbacks than potential. The whole fuel system needs to be upgraded from injectors to fuel pump to do this also. It requires 30% more fuel to be injected to equal gasoline and absorbs water terribly. -- So all in all I have a sevre dislike for the stuff and have seen first hand how it has ruined farmland and parts of the economy. All the farmers here wanted to make buck off the Ethanol boom and grew all corn. And guess what now grain and beans are in short supply. I personaly know farmers that made there quick buck but now are pissed because they spent that money on higher priced feed and grains.

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Two of my very good friends tuned there Turbo and Supercharged Mustangs for E85 and I must say it isn't worth it at all. Sure you can run higher timing with it but it has more drawbacks than potential. The whole fuel system needs to be upgraded from injectors to fuel pump to do this also. It requires 30% more fuel to be injected to equal gasoline and absorbs water terribly. -- So all in all I have a sevre dislike for the stuff and have seen first hand how it has ruined farmland and parts of the economy. All the farmers here wanted to make buck off the Ethanol boom and grew all corn. And guess what now grain and beans are in short supply. I personaly know farmers that made there quick buck but now are pissed because they spent that money on higher priced feed and grains.

 

 

Originally Posted by N/Apower viewpost.gif

+1

PS. Do you find that E85 allows more timing+compression w/o detonation? Interesting move, I like it.

Ive been on E85 for over a year now in the Evo. I can run more timing and boost than I can on Sunoco 110oct. When I build the motor, I plan to bump the compression up to 10:1.

 

I am N/Apower on this forum and this is the response I got when asking aobut a guy's E85 tune. I agree Cody, it DOES have limitations and you are spot on with the 30% more volumn requirement. However, if you are willing, there ARE some gains to be had and once the industry grows up around it (if it ever does), I think we will see these shortcomings fading/being overshadowed by performance gains.

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One more thing to think about. Ethanol was introduced in part to reduce emission by way of neutral carbon emssions.

What is ******** is that "they" dont say anything about the increased truck traffic, increased diesel consumption being burned by trucks that transport Ethanol. And not to mention the increased petro chemicals that are needed to grow the corn. And lets not forget the damage to our rivers and streams from all the runoff from these crops.

There is no perfect replacement for petro fuels but until the crude oil in the ground becomes far too expensive to extract from the ground we will continue to use it.

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Besides grains and beans being in short supply thank to overzealous farmers what we also need to think about is that most people push E85 because they are getting rich off of it. Sure they say it helps the environment but in reality investors and stock holders are at home bathing in cash. And when it comes to being used in high performance vehicles I say this, if you can afford the fast quit being a E85 cheap ass and run race fuel.

Edited by cody6.0
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