home invasion, fact vs fiction

[Novaking]

Well you can always try just letting the intruders murder your loved ones so you won't have to second guess it later:mad:

 

 

If you say so.

[M4CQB]

What if your wrong, and go to jail. what will your wife and kids do then. shooting someone doesn't keep them out of danger.

 

Did you read my entire post?

 

Originally Posted by M4CQB

I hope that I never have to kill anyone either, and I agree that I would never shoot anyone in the back, but I disagree with the idea that scaring someone away is a good idea.

 

I personally want to maintain the element of surprise, and frankly, I want to wait in a dark area where I can make a positive ID on the intruder as they turn the corner, and I will nail him right in the chest.

 

Think about it, if you make your presence known and you have a very aggressive intruder, or worse yet, what if there is more than one? Imagine what they will do to your wife and daughter if you die.

 

Note that I did not say I would simply shoot anyone. I specifically qualified that attempting to scare an intruder off without knowing all of the circumstances you are facing is something that I personally would not do. I for one want to make a positive ID before I make a decision as to whether I will shoot or attempt to scare them off.

 

Think about it, if you hear a window break, then noises that give you the impression an intruder has entered, do you really think it is a smart idea to call out and rack your shotgun? What if three people came in, and they also have shotguns?

 

I think maintaining the element of surprise, making a positive ID, then if they are armed opening fire is the safest solution.

 

What if they are not armed? Well, then you can call out and scare them off, but simply attempting to scare intruders off without making a tactical assessment first is something that I personally would not do.

 

Think about it, does the military engage the enemy without any intel at all? Would a lone police officer run into a house that could potentially have an entire gang inside? Why would a gun owner not use tactics to their advantage? I just don't get the whole idea of calling out to an intruder and racking a shotgun when you do not know what type of threat you are facing.

 

To each their own, but would rather rely of tactics and not make threats that I might not be able to back up.

[Novaking]

Think about it, does the military engage the enemy without any intel at all? Would a lone police officer run into a house that could potentially have an entire gang inside? Why would a gun owner not use tactics to their advantage? I just don't get the whole idea of calling out to an intruder and racking a shotgun when you do not know what type of threat you are facing.

 

I'm not in the military. Besides Rambo, I've never heard of a one man Military. When is the last time you saw your military defending themselfs on there own ground. In home defence you don't "engage" the enemy. I'm not a cop. I also don't know a lot of cops that can run period. But if they could I don't think they would go into a dark house with out back up. So I don't know what you mean. The only only tactics I have is to get them out of my house. Going after someone even in your own home is a bad idea. waiting for them to come to you is the best thing to do. If you read all my post on this thread, you would read that it will take a lot for a person or people to get to me and my family. But it goes both ways. It takes a lot for me to get to them to. I don't want to know the type of thread I'm facing. Just get out of my house! is all I want. If they want to come after me. Come and get it. If they don't better for me.

 

Maybe I will keep my alarm off and have my dog put down. I don't want to scare the bad guys away before I "Rambo" gets a hold of them.

 

Got to go. My M60 needs cleaned.

 

 

 

Novaking

[Unobtanium]

What if your wrong, and go to jail. what will your wife and kids do then. shooting someone doesn't keep them out of danger.

 

Wife/daughter raped

 

and I don't have any plans to get married nor do I have kids. I still think the above is how things should be done. Maybe I am a traditionalist but I still view the man as the protector of the family, and my opinion is born out with a simple study of psychology and physiology.

[adamlau]

Always deter if and when you can.

[Novaking]

Maybe I am a traditionalist but I still view the man as the protector of the family, and my opinion is born out with a simple study of psychology and physiology.

 

I think I've said that in another post. I'm not going to look for it, but I think I said "I would do anything to protect my family. "

 

First, don't let them in my house. (alarm, dogs (barking), double dead bolt.

 

Second, scare them away. ( alarm, dogs "racking" of a shotgun)

 

Last, and only last, pull the trigger.

 

If I've haven't said this,(I think I have) in this thread, Then now I have.

 

Novaking

[Novaking]

P.S. My view of protecting my family is keeping them out of harms way. If thats means hiding and waiting for the bad guys to leave. I've done my job. If that means pulling the trigger. Done job to.

[M4CQB]

I'm not in the military. Besides Rambo, I've never heard of a one man Military. When is the last time you saw your military defending themselfs on there own ground. In home defence you don't "engage" the enemy. I'm not a cop. I also don't know a lot of cops that can run period. But if they could I don't think they would go into a dark house with out back up. So I don't know what you mean. The only only tactics I have is to get them out of my house. Going after someone even in your own home is a bad idea. waiting for them to come to you is the best thing to do. If you read all my post on this thread, you would read that it will take a lot for a person or people to get to me and my family. But it goes both ways. It takes a lot for me to get to them to. I don't want to know the type of thread I'm facing. Just get out of my house! is all I want. If they want to come after me. Come and get it. If they don't better for me.

 

Maybe I will keep my alarm off and have my dog put down. I don't want to scare the bad guys away before I "Rambo" gets a hold of them.

 

Got to go. My M60 needs cleaned.

 

 

 

Novaking

 

Ok, for starters you are obviously NOT getting the point. I NEVER said I would seek out and engage the enemy. I was addressing the simple issue that calling out to an intruder and racking a shotgun is a bad idea when you do not know what circumstances you are facing.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by M4CQB

I hope that I never have to kill anyone either, and I agree that I would never shoot anyone in the back, but I disagree with the idea that scaring someone away is a good idea.

 

I personally want to maintain the element of surprise, and frankly, I want to wait in a dark area where I can make a positive ID on the intruder as they turn the corner, and I will nail him right in the chest.

 

Think about it, if you make your presence known and you have a very aggressive intruder, or worse yet, what if there is more than one? Imagine what they will do to your wife and daughter if you die.

 

AGAIN, this is what I posted. Where in the heck do you see that I am SEEKING out the intruder?

 

 

Originally Posted by M4CQB

Note that I did not say I would simply shoot anyone. I specifically qualified that attempting to scare an intruder off without knowing all of the circumstances you are facing is something that I personally would not do. I for one want to make a positive ID before I make a decision as to whether I will shoot or attempt to scare them off.

 

Think about it, if you hear a window break, then noises that give you the impression an intruder has entered, do you really think it is a smart idea to call out and rack your shotgun? What if three people came in, and they also have shotguns?

 

I think maintaining the element of surprise, making a positive ID, then if they are armed opening fire is the safest solution.

 

What if they are not armed? Well, then you can call out and scare them off, but simply attempting to scare intruders off without making a tactical assessment first is something that I personally would not do.

 

Think about it, does the military engage the enemy without any intel at all? Would a lone police officer run into a house that could potentially have an entire gang inside? Why would a gun owner not use tactics to their advantage? I just don't get the whole idea of calling out to an intruder and racking a shotgun when you do not know what type of threat you are facing.

 

To each their own, but would rather rely on tactics and not make threats that I might not be able to back up.

 

AGAIN, I am simply addressing the point that calling out to your intruder and racking a shotgun is not something that would work in EVERY situation.

 

I agree that sometimes racking the shotgun WILL work, I even said that in my last post. I don't know why you are calling me RAMBO and appear to being taking a hostile tone in your post. Calm down, I thought we were just having an exchange of ideas on the forum, there is no reason to start calling people names and getting hot under the collar.

[tucker301]

After reading someone of the thoughtful replies, I wish to announce that I have changed my mind on the issue.

 

Here's what I'll do to insure that the intruder has little to no incentive to do my family and myself any harm whatsoever.

 

1. I have a recording of some racking an action. This will be played for the intruder, but not so loudly so as to damage his hearing and open myself up to possible litigation for damages.

 

2. I will always keep a freshly baked pie and a hot pot of coffee at the ready, so as to make the intruder feel as though he/she is welcome and not in any danger.

 

3. I will always keep my valuables in plain sight, so as to not delay the intruder in his quest to relieve me of everything worth a darn in home.

 

4. I will keep my guns in plain view, with trigger and action locks in all of them. I will also keep the original boxes and manuals and warranties in close proximity, in case the intruder needs to take them from me.

 

5. I will post glamor shots pictures of my wife and daughter on the front and back doors of the residence. This will help the intruder to decide whether he'd like to put forth the effort in assaulting them or not.

 

Thanks to the (|)'s who have posted in this thread, for I'm quite certain their sage advice has saved me the aggravation of having to hire and expensive lawyer, should my home ever be invaded.

[shotgunNoob]

I think we have covered this before. Anyway, the whole "home invasion" scenario is obviously prone to MANY subjective theories. Bottom line is, I dont believe anybody can truly know what they would do given the circumstances. There are just too many variables. Now, if you have one **** of a good alarm system, 2 or 3 attack dogs, sleep in a bullet proof vest, always have loaded firearms next to your bedside, a wife who knows how to fire every one of them, have no curious children and have an "insta-cop" button on your phone...I guess you are good to go. Otherwise, all you can do is have a plan A and B..possibly C. Either way, more than likely, a home intruder will have the advantage. It is up to the home owner to do what he/she can to leverage this. Its just a shame that we live in a society where this stuff is even a concern in the first place.

Edited November 8, 2008 by shotgunNoob

[shotgunNoob]

After reading someone of the thoughtful replies, I wish to announce that I have changed my mind on the issue.

 

Here's what I'll do to insure that the intruder has little to no incentive to do my family and myself any harm whatsoever.

 

1. I have a recording of some racking an action. This will be played for the intruder, but not so loudly so as to damage his hearing and open myself up to possible litigation for damages.

 

2. I will always keep a freshly baked pie and a hot pot of coffee at the ready, so as to make the intruder feel as though he/she is welcome and not in any danger.

 

3. I will always keep my valuables in plain sight, so as to not delay the intruder in his quest to relieve me of everything worth a darn in home.

 

4. I will keep my guns in plain view, with trigger and action locks in all of them. I will also keep the original boxes and manuals and warranties in close proximity, in case the intruder needs to take them from me.

 

5. I will post glamor shots pictures of my wife and daughter on the front and back doors of the residence. This will help the intruder to decide whether he'd like to put forth the effort in assaulting them or not.

 

Thanks to the (|)'s who have posted in this thread, for I'm quite certain their sage advice has saved me the aggravation of having to hire and expensive lawyer, should my home ever be invaded.

 

Oh, and dont forget to have your family stand in place so as to provide easy target practice, should this person or persons feel inclined to pop off a few rounds or so. Also, keep a few dollars handy in case a courtesy cab fare is needed.

[Novaking]

Ok, for starters you are obviously NOT getting the point. I NEVER said I would seek out and engage the enemy. I was addressing the simple issue that calling out to an intruder and racking a shotgun is a bad idea when you do not know what circumstances you are facing.

 

[/i]

 

AGAIN, this is what I posted. Where in the heck do you see that I am SEEKING out the intruder?

 

 

 

 

AGAIN, I am simply addressing the point that calling out to your intruder and racking a shotgun is not something that would work in EVERY situation.

 

I agree that sometimes racking the shotgun WILL work, I even said that in my last post. I don't know why you are calling me RAMBO and appear to being taking a hostile tone in your post. Calm down, I thought we were just having an exchange of ideas on the forum, there is no reason to start calling people names and getting hot under the collar.

 

Please read my post again

 

 

Ok, I never called you Rambo. Amost everyone here as a good idea on this forum. Thats why I'm here. I get way more info than I give which is why I'm here in the first place. There is never any harm done here and I hope the same for you.

 

Yes, your right, "racking" the shotgun WILL NOT work every time. I didn't say it would. Neither will my alarm.

 

I never said YOU engage anything. The ''engaging" the enemy refurs to your Military idea which I didn't understand.

 

novaking

[Novaking]

After reading someone of the thoughtful replies, I wish to announce that I have changed my mind on the issue.

 

Here's what I'll do to insure that the intruder has little to no incentive to do my family and myself any harm whatsoever.

 

1. I have a recording of some racking an action. This will be played for the intruder, but not so loudly so as to damage his hearing and open myself up to possible litigation for damages.

 

2. I will always keep a freshly baked pie and a hot pot of coffee at the ready, so as to make the intruder feel as though he/she is welcome and not in any danger.

 

3. I will always keep my valuables in plain sight, so as to not delay the intruder in his quest to relieve me of everything worth a darn in home.

 

4. I will keep my guns in plain view, with trigger and action locks in all of them. I will also keep the original boxes and manuals and warranties in close proximity, in case the intruder needs to take them from me.

 

5. I will post glamor shots pictures of my wife and daughter on the front and back doors of the residence. This will help the intruder to decide whether he'd like to put forth the effort in assaulting them or not.

 

Thanks to the (|)'s who have posted in this thread, for I'm quite certain their sage advice has saved me the aggravation of having to hire and expensive lawyer, should my home ever be invaded.

 

Sounds good. I don't think you would fight off a snail anyway.

[shotgunNoob]

Ughh..I am so tired of hearing about this "racking the shotgun" business. Based on many reports, this "racking" sound is very well known and certainly not something ANYBODY wants to hear in the middle of the night. It indicates that a SERIOUSLY deadly weapon may be in the process of being armed. But, some dude on crack may not hear it nor give a crap if he does. Who knows. This whole "racking" stuff is as subjective as the use of lasers on home defense weapons. Now, I dont propose anybody walk around the house racking their shotty or brandishing their cool laser sighting devices. But, both have been proven to be effective at intimidation. However, personally speaking, if and when I "rack" my shotgun, I will be doing so from behind some sort of covered position, seeing as how I would probably use my shotgun as a barricade-type weapon. So what if the "perp" hears me. I dont plan on going hunting, but rather will stay put and let he or she come to me. Meanwhile, my wife will be dialing 911. I used to consider my shotgun as the "main home defense weapon". However, I now use a Springfield XD 45 for that role. This is because a 12g shotgun says "Im out to destroy you", whereas the 45 says "If I hit you right, you will be stopped". Besides, lets face it, handguns allow for greater mobility. Not to mention, handguns provide better protection against disarm attempts vs shotguns, unless you are "wearing" the shotgun via a sling.

Edited November 8, 2008 by shotgunNoob

[NJgunner]

Ughh..I am so tired of hearing about this "racking the shotgun" business. Based on many reports, this "racking" sound is very well known and certainly not something ANYBODY wants to hear in the middle of the night. It indicates that a SERIOUSLY deadly weapon may be in the process of being armed. But, some dude on crack may not hear it nor give a crap if he does. Who knows. This whole "racking" stuff is as subjective as the use of lasers on home defense weapons. Now, I dont propose anybody walk around the house racking their shotty or brandishing their cool laser sighting devices. But, both have been proven to be effective at intimidation. However, personally speaking, if and when I "rack" my shotgun, I will be doing so from behind some sort of covered position, seeing as how I would probably use my shotgun as a barricade-type weapon. So what if the "perp" hears me. I dont plan on going hunting, but rather will stay put and let he or she come to me. Meanwhile, my wife will be dialing 911. I used to consider my shotgun as the "main home defense weapon". However, I now use a Springfield XD 45 for that role. This is because a 12g shotgun says "Im out to destroy you", whereas the 45 says "If I hit you right, you will be stopped". Besides, lets face it, its far easier to be ****** with a pistol than a shotty. Not to mention, the pistol will provide better protection against a disarm attempt.

 

 

Maybe you should just leave your weapon unloaded that way you can keep making your...what did you call it "CLACK CLACK" until they leave. Perhaps use a megaphone so it can be heard throughout the house and if possibly the intruder or intruders can hear if they dont think you are home and are making too much noise tearing your house apart. A "ninja" style robbery is when 2 or 3 men break into a house and they are ARMED. If I could spot a weapon in someones hand in my house and there are 2 or three men. Im taking them out...plain and simple. No clack clack BS...youve seen too many movies....and this is where that extra ammunition comes into play.

[shotgunNoob]

Maybe you should just leave your weapon unloaded that way you can keep making your...what did you call it "CLACK CLACK" until they leave. Perhaps use a megaphone so it can be heard throughout the house and if possibly the intruder or intruders can hear if they dont think you are home and are making too much noise tearing your house apart. A "ninja" style robbery is when 2 or 3 men break into a house and they are ARMED. If I could spot a weapon in someones hand in my house and there are 2 or three men. Im taking them out...plain and simple. No clack clack BS...youve seen too many movies....and this is where that extra ammunition comes into play.

 

Hmm..I dont recall mentioning a "clack, clack" nor do I recall saying that people should rely on this "method" of intimidation. I simply said, if you actually read my post, that the "racking" of the shotgun is, subjectively, an intimidation method akin to those who use laser sighting devices on their pistols. Also, I mentioned that my shotgun is a barricade only weapon, with my .45 ACP being the main home defense firearm. BTW- I have 4 to 5 00-Buck shells in the shotgun, plus 4 in a Mesa Tactical sidesaddle, PLUS 2 mags full of .45 ACP. I am not lacking in ammo. Anyway, re-read my post. I think you will get the point. Peace.

Edited November 8, 2008 by shotgunNoob

[Novaking]

Maybe you should just leave your weapon unloaded that way you can keep making your...what did you call it "CLACK CLACK" until they leave. Perhaps use a megaphone so it can be heard throughout the house and if possibly the intruder or intruders can hear if they dont think you are home and are making too much noise tearing your house apart. A "ninja" style robbery is when 2 or 3 men break into a house and they are ARMED. If I could spot a weapon in someones hand in my house and there are 2 or three men. Im taking them out...plain and simple. No clack clack BS...youve seen too many movies....and this is where that extra ammunition comes into play.

 

It sound like you think we will wait until we see the intruder before we load the shotgun. NOT true. Yes if I saw someone with a gun in my house they better have a badge around the barrel or see yah. But we are talking about the second we here the sound of someone in your house.

[shotgunNoob]

Its funny..all of this "tough talk" amounts to nothing but BS and hearsay. Unless any of you are police officers whom have encountered numerous armed assaults or the military equivalent thereof, who can say? Sure, there are numerous "do's and donts", but when it comes down to it..NOBODY TRULY KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN!!!!!!! Why cant anybody get this? Are all of you guys tacticians? You do what you can or feel you must to be prepared. Outside of that, its all up to how your "fight or flight" response kicks in during a HIGHLY stressful situation. Most of us are just average Joes living average lives. Those who fall into this category would be ill-advised to assume they can go from this to "tactical bad-a**" in a matter of seconds. Get real....Just come up with a realistic plan, practice shooting your firearms and go about your lives. Remember, when encountering the stress of a home invasion, you will probably resort to the habits you have "learned" at the gun range. Train as you would defend. This means, at the range, load as many rounds as you would keep in your "home defense" weapon and use ammo that you would load for home defense. Get used to the count....Arm and dis-arm your weapon(s) as you would in a home defense scenario. Get used to this stuff to the point where you can do what needs to be done...under stress and if necessary, in complete darkness. Dont simply rely on what you think you know. Because, more than likely, what you "think" you know just might not be enough.

Edited November 8, 2008 by shotgunNoob

[warped]

You are correct in general I can agree with your assessment, consider the fact that some of us who opined may have been the type that actually served in the capacity of either a police officer or military person.

 

You can never judge a book by it's cover.

[shotgunNoob]

You are correct in general I can agree with your assessment, consider the fact that some of us who opined may have been the type that actually served in the capacity of either a police officer or military person.

 

You can never judge a book by it's cover.

 

I agree..but, many here make dangerous assumptions. If I were faced with the same situation, I would be sh*tting bricks. Yes I have plans, but life has a way of slapping you in the face; sometimes in a brutal way. Would I defend my life and the lives of my family by whatever means available to me? You bet I would. But, as experience has shown me, the "perfect plan" hardly goes. It's those who can adapt and create that are truly "prepared." I pray to God that, should the need ever arise, I fall into this category.

Edited November 8, 2008 by shotgunNoob

[Novaking]

You are correct in general I can agree with your assessment, consider the fact that some of us who opined may have been the type that actually served in the capacity of either a police officer or military person.

 

You can never judge a book by it's cover.

 

Three months ago in are town there was a homeless man that slept in his car. There is no law saying you can't do this. But he was parked buy a curb next to a hydrate. It was next to a park where there a "thing" going on. (I don't know what it was.) Three cops were going buy, they stopped to ask him to move his car. In pulled a gun. The officers shot 23 times and the man went to the hosital. The man had a 5 shot snubby. he killed 2 and almost killed the other. They said he had one round left.

 

Sorry, Cops don't train the way they need to. Nobody can. Nobody know what in going to happen. Like Noob said "have a plan". work on it. That is all of can do.

 

Same with military, I've never been in but from all the storys my friend as told me, there hasn't been any storys of him lieing in bed with his wife and his kids in the other room and the Turbinatior is standing at his bed side.The military also "clears" rooms with more than one person. As anyone here had to clear a room by yourself under pressure? REAL PRESSURE. What if they know that you are trying to clear a room. I'm 99% sure you will lose that battle. Can it be done. YES. Why would you do it? If a family member is missing. Then you go get them.

 

I'm not knocking Cops or Military. With out them we would be screwed.

Edited November 8, 2008 by Novaking

[M4CQB]

 

Ok, I never called you Rambo. Amost everyone here as a good idea on this forum. Thats why I'm here. I get way more info than I give which is why I'm here in the first place. There is never any harm done here and I hope the same for you.

 

Glad to hear it. I just wanted to be sure as it appeared that the exchange might be heading in a bad direction.

 

No harm done here, and no hard feelings.

[M4CQB]

You are correct in general I can agree with your assessment, consider the fact that some of us who opined may have been the type that actually served in the capacity of either a police officer or military person.

 

You can never judge a book by it's cover.

 

Well said.

[M4CQB]

Three months ago in are town there was a homeless man that slept in his car. There is no law saying you can't do this. But he was parked buy a curb next to a hydrate. It was next to a park where there a "thing" going on. (I don't know what it was.) Three cops were going buy, they stopped to ask him to move his car. In pulled a gun. The officers shot 23 times and the man went to the hosital. The man had a 5 shot snubby. he killed 2 and almost killed the other. They said he had one round left.

 

Sorry, Cops don't train the way they need to. Nobody can. Nobody know what in going to happen. Like Noob said "have a plan". work on it. That is all of can do.

 

Same with military, I've never been in but from all the storys my friend as told me, there hasn't been any storys of him lieing in bed with his wife and his kids in the other room and the Turbinatior is standing at his bed side.The military also "clears" rooms with more than one person. As anyone here had to clear a room by yourself under pressure? REAL PRESSURE. What if they know that you are trying to clear a room. I'm 99% sure you will lose that battle. Can it be done. YES. Why would you do it? If a family member is missing. Then you go get them.

 

I'm not knocking Cops or Military. With out them we would be screwed.

 

That is a sad story.

 

There was a Marine who served in Iraq for four years who went into law enforcement after his second child (his wife pushed him to take a job locally, although he said if he had it his way, he would be back in Iraq. He said the last four years were some of the best in his life). He said that "there is nothing here that these people can teach me about tactics that I don't aready know". The point was that the basic priciples you learn can be applied anywhere. The academy staff constantly reiterated this point, and I quote "we can't cover every encounter you will have out on the street, but the basic principles you learn here will apply to every situation you will face".

 

Ironically, several of the things the academy did cover was barricading yourself in a room or other venue while waiting for backup, entering a room if there is a reasonable belief that an officer is being held hostage and will be killed if they are not secured immediately, and on and on.

 

Yes, many officers do lack proper training, but some academy programs do have mock schools, malls, and homes where they run sims regularly. The firearms staff consists of SWAT and ex military who train regularly at Blackwater and I know that Blackwater has received some criticism lately, but their shooting techniques come directly from Todd Jarrett himself who teaches there regularly.

 

It would be nice if all academy and post academy training were like this, but unfortunately, many jurisdictions are busy spending their $$$ in "other" ways.

[Duggan]

Meh.

 

I have multiple friends in the marines and a few in the army who I've shot with, and I've never been impressed by their shooting prowess or knowledge of guns/tactics in general. Maybe my friends are just morons, I don't know.

 

Since you mentioned Todd Jarrett ...

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363

 

"the biggest problem that I see today about being in military and law enforcement and dealing with firearms is they are about 20 years behind the curve when it comes to teaching new techniques"

 

Don't get me started on cops I know/have met who are an absolute JOKE at shooting.