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Guest cleefurd

M4 Slug gun? "How to" advice sought. In pursuit of venison.

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Guest cleefurd

Given the apparent unavailability of M4 slug barrels,; What recourse is recommended?

 

>Rifled choke

>Rifled slugs with ?_____? choke

>Which ammo?

>Deer hunting would be the main purpose.

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Guest cleefurd
I would use a high grade sabot slug such as a Winchester or Hornady. Being that the M4 is a rifled barrel sabots would be preferable over rifled slugs. Let us know how the hunt goes and maybe post some pics.

 

OK maybe I was mistaken. Are you saying that there IS an M4 rifled barrel available? Mine is smooth bore.

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Guest cleefurd

Where did you get it? Is it an 11707? Must be a barrel product code on the box. Guess I'll have to find that # and source one. If that is the case, I'm selling my M1 which I only kept as my eventual slug gun thinking the M4 would not have that option available.

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Thats correct 11707. Purchased at Cabela's. Your should have came with one. Maybe some else can chime in with there M4 opinion as well. I stand corrected smooth bore.

Edited by sneakerfreak602

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Thats correct 11707. Purchased at Cabela's. Your should have came with one. Maybe some else can chime in with there M4 opinion as well.

 

My 11707 is a smooth bore as well.

 

Here is the lettering on the box end bar code:

 

M4 LR PG STD LE COLL APSE REC

 

......and the lettering on the side bar code:

 

FSA M4 18.5" SI TC+FP 5C USB G RILS PG

 

John

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Guest cleefurd
mine is smooth bore as well... can i fire rifled slugs out of a smooth bore barrel?

 

Yes Sir. As I understand it, smooth-bores shoot rifled slugs better than sabots. The pre-placed rifling on the slug will actually generate rotation in the smooth bore by design. The rifled choke I considered as an option, will impart rotation to any slug, leaning I believe towards non rifled, and sabots. I'm still a little green on the subject, which is why I'm asking too.

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I refer you to this thread where I typed pages on this subject, battling another forum member rather unnecessarily over this issue.

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16666&highlight=m4+slug

 

To address the points brought up in this thread:

 

1) - Your M4 does NOT have a rifled barrel. If you have a rifled barrel, something is seriously wrong.

2) - Sabot slugs are meant for rifled barrels "only". Refer to pictures below to see why.

3) - Smooth bore shotguns should use rifled slugs

4) - Rifled chokes, from everything that I've read, provide very little stabilization ... way less than a full length rifled barrel, and less than a rifled slug in a smooth bore barrel.

5) - You can shoot a slug through ANY choke. You can shoot slugs through an extra full choke without damaging your weapon. However, for BEST ACCURACY, use a looser choke, such as a modified.

 

In more detail, here ... this a sabot slug. As you can see, it has no rifling on the actual slug, and is meant to be stabilized by the rifling in a rifled slug barrel. This rifling stabilizes (spins) the slug, giving it superior accuracy at longer ranges, and increases terminal ballistics due to this spin.

 

sabot2.jpg

 

sabot3.jpg

 

While sabot slugs CAN be shot through your m4, there is no reason to do so. Sabot slugs in general cost 2-3x as much as rifled slugs, and they NEED a rifled slug barrel in order to take advantage of their design.

 

If you shoot sabot slugs through your M4, you are basically turning your m4 into a musket. The sabot will have nothing to make it spin, so it will exit the barrel with negligible spin and go who knows where. You are completely negating the superior accuracy potential of the sabot, and the terminal ballistics as well.

 

In short, sabot slugs NEED a rifled barrel in order to be worth a damn. If you don't have a rifled barrel, skip the sabot slugs and use a rifled slug, as seen on my next post ...

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...continued

 

If you want to shoot slugs through your m4 (a smoothbore 18.5 inch barrel), your best bet is a rifled slug.

 

Rifled slugs literally have rifling on the outside of the slug, so that as it is traveling down the barrel, the rifling on the slug causes it to spin, stabilizing the slug, increasing accuracy in theory, terminal ballistics etc.

 

It's open to debate how much stabilization the rifling on the rifled slug actually provides, however even if it only provides a modest amount of stabilization, that is better than the 0 stabilization you are going to get when using a sabot.

 

Here are some pictures of 2 rifled slugs, so you can see the rifling on the outside of the slug:

 

rifledslug2.jpg

 

rifledslug1.jpg

 

That's a remington slugger, one of the more popular rifled slugs among m4 users.

 

In summary (copied from other post):

 

Rifled Barrel + Smooth Sabot Slug = Win, best performance at longer ranges, best terminal ballistics

Rifled Barrel + Rifled slug = I'm not sure, I've never tried it ... can't imagine it would be great

Smooth Barrel + Rifled Slug = Best option for smooth bore shotguns, as the rifling on the slug helps stabilize the slug

Smooth Barrel + Smooth SABOT Slug = Fail. No real way to get the round spinning, thus no real way to retain accuracy at any type of distance at all. You're spending 3x the price of rifled slugs for no improvement or a detrimental change in accuracy, not to mention less terminal ballistics due to little spin.

 

As always, take all advise on accuracy, knockdown power etc with a grain of salt. Your best bet is ALWAYS to do your own testing, see what ammo your gun likes, and see what patterns well for you.

 

Basic slug sighting in info, also copied from previously linked post:

 

"To find your perfect slug, do the following:

 

1) - buy 2 boxes (10 rounds) of every type of rifled slug you can find.

2) - set up a large target at 40,50 yards, whatever you want to sight in for.

3) - Shoot 3 shot groups, changing the target every 3 rounds and labeling each target as you take it down. DO NOT ADJUST YOUR OPTIC YET. So long as you are on paper, it doesn't matter where they hit, only how tight the group is.

4) - After you've shot all your ammo, you should have 3 targets per brand times however many brands you bought. Find the labeled target with the tightest pattern, and buy some more of that ammo.

5) - If you have a few brands that are close, buy some of both and duke it out between them with the same method.

6) - When you've settled on a slug that performs well, you then sight in your optic for that specific slug. If you're switching your optic after every shot or between every brand, you're wasting time and money."

 

Hopes this helps.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

-Duggan

Edited by Duggan

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Guest cleefurd

Those sluggers look promising. Given their symetry, almost as fat as they are long, they won't need much spin at all to remain stable. I'm almost inclined to convince myself that the prominent grooves would even act like fletching. Being retired you'd THINK I had the time to perform testing like I did in my past, but no, busier now than ever. I do promise to sight them in 1st though... out of respect for the dear deer.

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I have a Super black eagle II with a rifled barrel and an M4. I killed two deer on the run with the M4 in Iowa this year and dropped them both where they stood. I just don't know which one I like better. Killed with both, the SBE II I killed a doe at 150 yards, she jumped straight up in the air and fell straight down on her chest.

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Guest cleefurd
I have a Super black eagle II with a rifled barrel and an M4. I killed two deer on the run with the M4 in Iowa this year and dropped them both where they stood. I just don't know which one I like better. Killed with both, the SBE II I killed a doe at 150 yards, she jumped straight up in the air and fell straight down on her chest.

 

How can a pair of import guns with that resume not be granted citizenship? Might as well have learned to speak English. They contributed to wild life management cause, AND put dinner on the table in a waning economy. Now THAT's American.

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The M4 shoots standard foster type slugs with more than satisfactory accuracy. Mine cluster at about 3 inches at 50 yards, but open up to about a 12 inches at 100. But if you using a shotgun for deer 75 to 50 yards is the average shot anyway. I use a cylinder choke tube with an eotech sight. AWESOME!

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Anyone tried the new Federal Truball Slugs?

LE_SLUG_%20sm%20RENDERING_5c.jpg TruBallComponents2.jpg

 

Federal claim those are the most acurate rifled slugs with 2" groups @ 50 yds. I haven't shot them yet but I'll sure give them a try.

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Anyone tried the new Federal Truball Slugs?

LE_SLUG_%20sm%20RENDERING_5c.jpg TruBallComponents2.jpg

 

Federal claim those are the most acurate rifled slugs with 2" groups @ 50 yds. I haven't shot them yet but I'll sure give them a try.

 

How much are those? and what is that ball for ?

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Guest cleefurd
Anyone tried the new Federal Truball Slugs?

LE_SLUG_%20sm%20RENDERING_5c.jpg TruBallComponents2.jpg

 

Federal claim those are the most acurate rifled slugs with 2" groups @ 50 yds. I haven't shot them yet but I'll sure give them a try.

 

I am thrilled to report I have a crush on this one. Thanks for all the data everyone!! VERY kind of everyone to offer advice. I read a 6 page report on the ^^ Federal Truball round and am highly impressed ;http://www.allbusiness.com/management/1067798-1.html

Will test it against the Remington slugger, and a few others. Within days if I can find the ammo

Edited by cleefurd

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Guest cleefurd
How much are those? and what is that ball for ?

 

According to the link posted in previous post above, the ball forces the skirt into uniform contact with the bore, and couples the wad to the slug for true alignment, resulting in better in-flight characteristics and more controlled terminal expansion since it does not become asymetrical during firing like unsupported slugs.

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Given the apparent unavailability of M4 slug barrels,; What recourse is recommended?

 

>Rifled choke

>Rifled slugs with ?_____? choke

>Which ammo?

>Deer hunting would be the main purpose.

 

 

Using a Trulock MOD choke, my M4 would print clusters at 50 yards off the bench using irons. This was also with me flinching against 1oz 1760fps 3" slugs. Offhand at 50 using 2-3/4 I was able to get nice 4-6" groups.

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On 12/24/2008 at 4:40 AM, Guest cleefurd said:

 

Yes Sir. As I understand it, smooth-bores shoot rifled slugs better than sabots. The pre-placed rifling on the slug will actually generate rotation in the smooth bore by design. The rifled choke I considered as an option, will impart rotation to any slug, leaning I believe towards non rifled, and sabots. I'm still a little green on the subject, which is why I'm asking too.

Rifled slugs will achieve rotation in the barrel as you indicated in your question.  A rifled slug barrel will generate more rotation and therefore obtain better accuracy out to 100+ yards.  Ballistics experts opine that the rifled slug in a smooth barrel can only obtain XXX rotations during its travel down the barrel but the rifled slug barrel will spin that slug, rifled or not, much more aggressively (and effectively) down the barrel.. More spin equals more accuracy.  Many hunters favor slugs fired from a rifled barrel over sabot rounds.  Besides the higher cost of sabots, slugs are much heavier and deliver more knockdown power than sabots, which tend to "punch straight through an animal without much tissue trama".  One hunting expert tells of hitting a 165 pound derr with sabots three times and the animal continued scrambling away. That deer was recovered after many hours of tracking.

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