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ipguy

M4/M1014 rail system?

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Surefire is making a rail system for the M1014. I don't remember Surefire's number for the rail. I think it is the m90 but I could be wrong.

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I've been looking at that system, and this one from Brugger & Thomet.

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=BT21353&storeid=1&image=btbenhg.gif

btbenhg.gif

 

Both aren't exactly what I want though. I'd like for a portion of the rail system to extend past where the handguards normally fit too. That way I can add the Surefire 9 volt light up ahead of my grip area, then route a tape switch to some rail covers.

This system would be better if it linked the top rail to the rear receiver mounts like on the Sidearmor unit. This would give you a better zero holding unit, but it would have to be redesigned to make taking the weapon down easily.

Technically, you could use both. At least the Sidearmor unit without the extended upper rail, and the DSA thing.

I keep hearing rumors of Surefire developing one for it. Maybe by the time Benelli gets around to fixing my M4, it'll be out?

I'd think it would be a high priority due to military contracts. Maybe I'll get ahold of Larue and drop them a tip. They're pretty responsive to what consumers want.

The truth is, both systems above leave a lot to be desired.

 

If you guys want to hammer out some things you'd like to see or don't want, it might help. Personally, I'd like to see a full length upper picatinny rail mounted to the receiver. This rail then is apart of or capsulated by a replacement handguard with addresses on all 4 sides, the top being the picatinny running from the receiver forward. Thus giving you an uninterupted mount.

A bonus would be taking a design similar to the GG&G rail system from the M16 family which has addresses on the diagonals as well as the 90 degree hard mounts.

I'd opt for free floating system, but this being a shotgun, the benefit is minimal. I'd prefer to strengthen the barrel support with the rail system. Free floating all the way from the receiver would make an unstable platform, or it would be ungodly heavy.

A rail system would offer better ways to mount a sling.

Do you feel the military would like a way to mount a bayonet on this shotgun? Being a close quarter medium, it would seem to have some draw.

Would you like a light weight heat shield along the remainder of the barrel?

I think it could be built to be compatible with the 14" version as well very easily.

I'd pay up to 500 dollars for a quality rail system.

-

-Steve

 

[ 10-21-2004, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: stevenb ]

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stevenb,

 

Someone on AR15.com bought & evaluated the B&T rail, & it didn't deliver. Among other things, gas fouling blows out between the vents on lower end of the rail & onto the shooter. His bottom line: stay away.

 

I'm curious to see what SF will come up with, & I hope it's better than their AR rail, which doesn't line up w/ the receiver picatinny flat top. This Sidearmor unit looks nice, but I still have to see them all before I'll commit.

 

BTW - what M4 "fix" are you referring to?

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Double_wield,

Sorry, I didn't notice you responded.

My M4 required a new gas piston after 50 rounds. So far the new one has held up for 200 rounds.

 

That blows about the B&T unit. I was going to buy it. Can you remember any more of the negatives about it? I can fix the venting issue probably. Does it hold a zero? I intend to mount a OTAL on it.

I searched arfcom but it is too old I guess.

Is Surefire going to release one or is it just a rumor? I agree their ar-15 one sucks compared to the competitions.

I need something in the near future. Not a few years.

-Steve

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Steve,

 

The B&T rail review was posted sometime during the previous summer. I can't immediately see a solution to its gas venting problem, since the lower rail section is open by design. I don't recall any zero-hold issues, but the thing is reportedly hefty (somewhat apparent in the photos). Personally, between the 2 known systems, I'd go w/ the Sidearmor unit hands-down. It extends the basic contour & functionality of the basic M4S90 design, & allows take-down maintenance to be performed w/o having to remove it from the gun (via unscrewing those 2 knobs). My only small grip is that the protruding knobs that secure that top rail to the side rail assembly limit the usable real estate on the R-side rail. This is probably a non-issue in practical terms (it still has rail space there), but I have to wonder if a more compact method of securing the system together (throw lever-type method?) couldn't be made. Or maybe not.

 

Whatever the case, the SA unit looks trim & simple. I like that the SA unit provides a longer top rail, & its side rails are directly astride the bbl. instead of riding lower, in between the bbl. & the feed tube, as on the B&T unit.

 

ORACLE,

 

The ARGO is supposed to ensure reliability in spite of added weight (breaking parts notwithstanding. I hope they fix this before I take delivery of mine). The mounting methods don't interfere w/ the action.

 

BTW - anyone look at the M4 on the SA site posted by ipguy? What's up w/ the feed tube?

 

m401_2_640.jpg

 

Doesn't look like the +2 extension, & I haven't seen "dimpling" on the full-length tubes either. What gives?

 

[ 11-04-2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Double_wield ]

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My +2 extension looks just like that. Gives me 7+1. I put 50 rounds of skeet loads through, just for kicks, then 50 rounds of 00 buck, and 50 rounds of 1-oz. slugs. You ought to see this thing punching through man-size targets at 50 yards. Recoil is great and muzzle jump is significant, but FUN AS ****!!! After 8-10 slugs, I tore a big gaping hole into the target, and the laughs from the folks around me were priceless. Just praying I don't have a part failure like I've been hearing.

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Thanks for the replies. Check this out though. I wrote to Surefire this morning and this is what they said:

-------------------------

Dear Sir,

SureFire will be making a railed forend for the Benelli M4. Unfortunately, as it is not out yet, we do not have any details or pictures of the item yet. The model number is the M80. If you have any further questions do not hesitate to write back or call us at 1-800-828-8809. We are dedicated to providing world-class customer service and welcome future inquiries or comments.

 

-------------------------

I wrote back trying to get an aprox. release date.

 

I wrote to Sidearmor too to see if they have future plans. No response yet though.

-Steve

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Got my reply back, they said the M80 should be done by the end of the year! No pictures are available of the unit as of yet though.

On a side note, I asked them about the status of the L80 green visible laser and they said it has not been scrapped. It is simply on hold.

-Steve

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Anxious to see what SF brings to the table.

 

ip - I thought the +2 extension slides over the feed tube, which would make it slightly larger in diameter at the feed tube-extension interface than the distal (far) end of the extension that the tube cap screws onto. The photo shows a feed tube + extension that appears to be uniform in diameter, save for the slight groove in the middle. What's the deal there? Is it just the photo?

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Originally posted by Double_wield:

bumpity

Sorry, I haven't been paying attention...

 

As I can tell, that groove is just an annular groove, as if it is supposed to add some resistance to collapsing. When I got my shotgun, me and the dealer immediately replaced the factory tube and put on the extension as a complete replacement. It does not attach to what's it on there from the factory, because the factory tube is artificially shortended. Not sure if that helps.

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ip,

 

I've seen +2 extensions before, & they seem to slide over the existing 5-shot tube w/ the cap screwing onto the threaded end of the extension (I'm not sure what still prevents it from sliding off, however). This photo doesn't show the (expanded) back end/edge of the extension over the feed tube, only an annular goove at the tube+extension junction. Was this picture photoshopped to remove that back edge of the extension? Looks different from what I've seen.

 

[ 11-15-2004, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Double_wield ]

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Hey IPGUY.

How is it that you are getting 7+1 out of a 2Rnd extension? Today is my Birthday, and my lovey wife bought me the 2rnd extension, and it only adds to 2rnds, not 3. Did you mean to 6+1 ? I just loaded mine to make sure the crack I take daliy is out of my system. smile.gif

The Surefire rail might be too cool to not to save up money for it, wouldn't it be nice to out a tangodown front handle on our m4s :D

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yes we are friends smile.gif take out the snap ring cap under the mag tube cap,that will alow another 2-3/4 shell in the tube,thennnnn after loading the tube to 7 shells,pullback the bolt just enough to put a shell on the lifter and one in the chamber then release the bolt easily,the bottom of the carrier bolt allows this feature with its single notch on the bottom,see for yourself,other carrier bolts have two notches in which the back notch needs to be filled in,,,,,,,,,,best to you my M1014 brother------------------(((((((((((((((((M1014)))))))))))))))))) :cool:

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M1014.

Your my Best Friend now.

That is too cool. :cool:

 

So what kind of issues if any can I get by taking this magic red plastic rod? Legal issues ? is there anything that say's NO NO, on the 9 rounds?

 

Thanks M1014

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I threw that silly red rod out long time ago,,I'm not a lawyer so I don't know,I do know that I love my M1014 and put what I feel is neccessary on it regardless of anything else-----------peace to you my Benelli M1014 brother***************************************************M1014 ;) ***********

 

[ 11-17-2004, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: M1014 ]

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