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Titanium charging handle...


jantonio54

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THAT I did notice. Hard = brittle, not so hard = tough, T3/T6, 6000 v 7000 series, umm, seems as though you already know more about it than most can comprehend.... and you thought I wasn't paying attention:)

 

 

I would not accuse someone with such an eye for detail of "not paying attention".

:D

 

I am disproportionately excited about this rail though. I want it. I want it bolted to the top of my M4 with an LT mounted T1 cruising along atop it. However, patience is a virtue. I DID get the spring in the mail today. In the end, I am one who has to hold, touch, look at, and appraise something with my own senses before I can TRULY endorse it. When I say "This thing is good", I attatch my reputation to it as well. People associate it not only with who made it, but who introduced them to it. While I have always maintained that you are one of the most polite/best written/spoken manufacturers who has an online presense, it was not until today, at the recieving of the spring, that I truly appreciated the quality of what you are doing.

 

Sure, I saw photo's, heard reviews, ect. But today when I took the spring out of the box and remembered all my dissapointment with: Surecycle, Wolf "generic" springs, Benelli M1S90 springs, ect. I could not help but smile with confidence as the time ticks down until I have my rail and Ti tube.

 

I do not say this to imply that I doubted the quality of anything, but simply to say what everyone who has ever owned a fine automobile or sports car will tell you. Watching it, looking at it in pictures, seeing it on TV. Nothing compares to feeling the soft snick* of the shifter as you slam 3rd gear and listen to the cacophany of screaming exhaust yourself. And so it is with well-machined parts, although not quite as liberating.

 

ETA: this hard/brittle stuff is why I have not condemned the KZ design for being softer than GG&G. I HIGHLY! doubt that the GG&G bent itself into two pieces. Perhapse it was heat-treated too aggressively and it snapped. The KZ bolt may not do this at a lower RC level. I do not know, but until you have a Bolt Charger out, I am running my stock one, being as noone will sell me their Design Concepts one.

Edited by Unobtanium
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  • 2 weeks later...
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Anyone have experience with the KZ Charging Handle? The Day Design Concepts pulled the plug ( I called and left VM's with no Callback) I just ordered a KZ to have something bigger. Are they worse than GG&G? I ordered both of these parts 2 weeks ago and still nothing in the mail. I am praying Kip will add these to his inventory. I am a big fan of anything strong, light weight, and no F'in Corrosive baby.

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Duggan:

 

Which is which on your pictures? I'd like one the size on left for my SBEs. When its cold and I'm wearing gloves, sometimes its hard to rack the gun and the geese have to die. :)

 

Design Concepts (best one) on left, stock one in center, crappy GG&G one on right.

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ETA: this hard/brittle stuff is why I have not condemned the KZ design for being softer than GG&G. I HIGHLY! doubt that the GG&G bent itself into two pieces. Perhapse it was heat-treated too aggressively and it snapped. The KZ bolt may not do this at a lower RC level. I do not know, but until you have a Bolt Charger out, I am running my stock one, being as noone will sell me their Design Concepts one.

 

It bent itself in a 10 degree or worse bend from being hit on the ground.

 

I forget if I threw my m4 or if it fell off a table or what, but it somehow hit the ground hard and the weak charging handle got bent.

 

What worse is that the design didn't have any non-rotational flat spots like the stock one, so it was free to spin off axis in your hand, consistently giving you the worst grip possible, as you would always end up with the bolt handle bent towards you, encouraging your hand to slip off the bolt handle.

 

I managed to straighten it back out, but my faith in it is completely gone. This happened a few more times, not as bad as that first time, but after consistently having to fix a subpar product I got sick of it and bought the PMC/Design Concepts one, and it has been 110%. It is a much, much better product.

 

If you want Kip, I will gladly send you my old GG&G handle, so you can test it or whatever so you can see exactly what your product should NOT end up being like.

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Guest cleefurd
Theirs is pretty much perfect.

 

If you can somehow improve upon it ... more power to you.

 

handles02.jpg

 

Ours is/was/ a clone of the one on the far left. Duggan thanks for offering to send the GG&G, I believe the deficiency to be the slender shank for sarters, not knowing their material selection.

If DC (far left) fails to continue product availability don't fret too much. We will re-release ours later this year.

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Guest cleefurd

I use to live in Friendswood TX!! Small world. Lived on Windsong Lane back when it was still a dirt road (1978-1980)

 

I have an M1 and I will need to check that. If it does it will list accordingly. My hunch is it won't fit the M1 when optimized for the M4 due to bolt carrier mortise that might prevent the larger tang from seating properly.

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I use to live in Friendswood TX!! Small world. Lived on Windsong Lane back when it was still a dirt road (1978-1980)

 

I have an M1 and I will need to check that. If it does it will list accordingly. My hunch is it won't fit the M1 when optimized for the M4 due to bolt carrier mortise that might prevent the larger tang from seating properly.

 

Wow, I can't imagine that part of town back then. What was 528 like then? Was Moore road even there? How about sun meadow?

 

We moved there in '84 and it used to be nice country drive over to Alvin. Not any more. :( Idiots don't understand why it floods when they keep turning under fields for homes and churches. :mad:

 

I think if you drove the area now you'd be shocked and if you ever drove over to 288 via 518, you'd probably get in a wreck gawking at all the new stuff.

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Guest cleefurd

Sun Meadows was brand new and Chigger Creek got it's revenge TWICE in what was suppose to be a "100 year flood-plane".... good thing for my folks it was a lease property.:o The Sun Meadow's 7-11 convenience store was the only commerce for miles. 528 was a true FM road (farm market) and indicative of old Americana. I went to FBCS school on FM518 and back then it was safe to ride your bike to school (verrrry long bike ride though).

 

My folks eventually bought a house in Ellis Landing (League City) by 1980 where we lived until enlisting in the Marine Corps in '83. Ellis Landing was BRAND new at the time, and was the only development beyond Newport subdivision at the time. I heard it is unrecognizable today. Little trees are big, and all the fields are as you said.... plowed under.

Edited by cleefurd
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I'm really glad I got my Design Concepts from Brownells back in December.

 

I weighed the factory, GG&G and the Design Concepts on my Dillon electronic scale.

Factory Charging Handle: 12 Grams roughly

GG&G Charging Handle: 23 - 24 Grams

Design Concepts Charging Handle: 8.5 Grams

 

The GG&G is junk. It simply weighs too much and slows down the carrier to the point that you can cause jams. If you're firing low base rounds, it is easy to cause a failure where there is a live round in the chamber with the hammer down since the trigger disconnector is connected to the elevator. During the last 2 inches of carrier travel, the disconnector is disable, and the hammer will drop if you pull the trigger.

 

With the Design Concepts, you're looking at a 50% weight reduction. Switching between the DC and the GG&G was like night and day. The slugish carrier disapeared and returned to being a blur.

 

The DC is not as large as the GG&G knurled knob, but it is larger than the factory unit.

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I'm really glad I got my Design Concepts from Brownells back in December.

 

I weighed the factory, GG&G and the Design Concepts on my Dillon electronic scale.

Factory Charging Handle: 12 Grams roughly

GG&G Charging Handle: 23 - 24 Grams

Design Concepts Charging Handle: 8.5 Grams

 

The GG&G is junk. It simply weighs too much and slows down the carrier to the point that you can cause jams. If you're firing low base rounds, it is easy to cause a failure where there is a live round in the chamber with the hammer down since the trigger disconnector is connected to the elevator. During the last 2 inches of carrier travel, the disconnector is disable, and the hammer will drop if you pull the trigger.

 

With the Design Concepts, you're looking at a 50% weight reduction. Switching between the DC and the GG&G was like night and day. The slugish carrier disapeared and returned to being a blur.

 

The DC is not as large as the GG&G knurled knob, but it is larger than the factory unit.

 

My GG&G never jammed on me, it just sucked.

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  • 4 months later...

I'm sure Kip's will have better machining than the Design Concepts. Th knurling on mine was poorly done. This can be attributed to having to work on Titanium -- not the easiest medium. Function is fine though.

 

I'm curious to know if Kip is going to go lighter than stock, or aim for stock weight since that was what the Benelli was designed for.

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Guest cleefurd

Yes the 44 solid titanium ones were moved a while ago.

 

The revised ones had tooling and coater's delays, which led us to a new coatings firm in Michigan who will also be doing the work on our "F.I.S.T." (to debut Jan 1st)

 

Meanwhile the current run of bolt knobs were set back to January release since they will be coated along-side the other samples previously mentioned at the Michigan plant. The bolt knobs are made by us (carriercomp) but outsourced for TiAln coating.

 

BTW;

Yes the revised bolt knob will have the A2 heat treated tang to withstand the Benelli designed intent to double as a gas piston disassembly tool.

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Yes the 44 solid titanium ones were moved a while ago.

 

The revised ones had tooling and coater's delays, which led us to a new coatings firm in Michigan who will also be doing the work on our "F.I.S.T." (to debut Jan 1st)

 

Meanwhile the current run of bolt knobs were set back to January release since they will be coated along-side the other samples previously mentioned at the Michigan plant. The bolt knobs are made by us (carriercomp) but outsourced for TiAln coating.

 

BTW;

Yes the revised bolt knob will have the A2 heat treated tang to withstand the Benelli designed intent to double as a gas piston disassembly tool.

 

Put me on the list! :)

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