Unobtanium Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yep, I did a stupid. I have shot LOTS of lead down range from H&K's, Glock's, a Sig, a Les Baer, on and on. And ALL OF THEM work like this... 2 dots on the rear sight, 1 dot on the front sight. Target is DIRECTLY BEHIND the 1 dot on the front sight, which is in a perfect horizontal alignment with the dot to it's left and right, on the rear sight. Well those crazy italian's didn't get the memo that the Americans and Germans got. So I ended up jacking the factory zero up and now I need to re-zero. At least I know why I bottomed out my sight and still hit high... Here is the CORRECT way to obtain a sight picture with your M4S90's iron sights, taken straight from the military TM. I can't belive I forgot about this since I last owned an M4. I feel owned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I am finally picking up my M4 from my FFL tommorrow (F'in 10 day Cali waiting period) and while waiting I tracked down the USMC manual to see how they train my fellow grunts on this badboy and noticed the difference in correct sight picture from other weapons I have worked with. Hope you got that ***** zeroed where you need it. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 I am finally picking up my M4 from my FFL tommorrow (F'in 10 day Cali waiting period) and while waiting I tracked down the USMC manual to see how they train my fellow grunts on this badboy and noticed the difference in correct sight picture from other weapons I have worked with. Hope you got that ***** zeroed where you need it. Have fun! I left the range shaking my head and remembering that my old M4 had the same quirk and so I came home to track it down. I was getting 70-90% patterns on a target slightly larger than typing-paper using my preferred 12-pellet 00 buck load at 25 yards, and groups with the slugs were ragged-hole. Just in the wrong place (way high). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TokenWhiteMale Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 You are right on about the constant minute adjustments that are going to be required for target aqusition. What a boo boo on a tactical gun. If I had one of those things I would be really tempted to stick a compact laser on it. Given it's intended use (don't need to worry about proper lead shooting clays...) I would much rather use that or one of the open illuminted sights available. Won't make the gun any uglier either:p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Here is a stupid question, but I have to ask: I havent been to a Skeet Range in years, and its only been a handful of times. Most of my training was in tactical training situations in the military, and since ive been out, confined to indoor ranges with limited mobility & Distance (trying to change that.) How frowned upon is it to bring and use a Tactical weapon like an M4 to a Skeet Range to use specifally for reflex and target acquistion training? I realize you would only be able to use 2 rounds at a time, but I dont remember seeing anyone at one of those places with a nasty tactical weapon. My guess is some guys will have alot of Sh*T to say because they wouldnt want to see somebody that isnt there specifically for the sport, or even have the RO turn me away. Any advice is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 Here is a stupid question, but I have to ask: I havent been to a Skeet Range in years, and its only been a handful of times. Most of my training was in tactical training situations in the military, and since ive been out, confined to indoor ranges with limited mobility & Distance (trying to change that.) How frowned upon is it to bring and use a Tactical weapon like an M4 to a Skeet Range to use specifally for reflex and target acquistion training? I realize you would only be able to use 2 rounds at a time, but I dont remember seeing anyone at one of those places with a nasty tactical weapon. My guess is some guys will have alot of Sh*T to say because they wouldnt want to see somebody that isnt there specifically for the sport, or even have the RO turn me away. Any advice is appreciated. My advice? Quite frankly? f**k 'em. Unless you are competing against them and doing something unethical based on the rules of the competition, you are just there to have fun. If they want to talk smack because you are honing your skills with your M4 and not a Kreighoff or however you spell it, who cares. Ask one of them: "Dang, I see now what you mean about fit and finish and quality, but, it must really hurt the first scratch you put on it. I bet even that little nick right there *point to something on the Kreig.* would nag the **** out of me on such a fine weapon!" and watch them go all nutty over it. (I did this exact same thing to a guy on an S2000 forum who posted a pic of his new rims. He posted up afterwards that he immediately ran outside to inspect his precious rims, lol, all in good fun though!) As to the RO, some can be picky, but I doubt you will have a problem as long as you are polite to him, safe, and heed the range commands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 You are right on about the constant minute adjustments that are going to be required for target aqusition. What a boo boo on a tactical gun. If I had one of those things I would be really tempted to stick a compact laser on it. Given it's intended use (don't need to worry about proper lead shooting clays...) I would much rather use that or one of the open illuminted sights available. Won't make the gun any uglier either:p. In all fairness, any time you are shooting a single projectile, "minute adjustments" will be required. The Benelli system is simply different, instead of lining up the dots and putting the target behind the center one, the target IS the center dot, and the dot on the FSP just keeps you from "losing it" in a low-light situation. Not bad, just...different. I am planning on running a T1 micro as soon as Kip gets his new rail on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Personally I dont want to compete with anyone. I just want to go out there and sharpen the reflexes with this weapon and mind my own business and be left the F alone. I just wasnt sure if people generally give a hard time to guys that dont fancy themselves shotgun sportsman that have the weapon specifically for home defense or in case I run into a Cougar or Bear someday back in the hills. No disrepect meant to any true marksman that are at a different level than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 Personally I dont want to compete with anyone. I just want to go out there and sharpen the reflexes with this weapon and mind my own business and be left the F alone. I just wasnt sure if people generally give a hard time to guys that dont fancy themselves shotgun sportsman that have the weapon specifically for home defense or in case I run into a Cougar or Bear someday back in the hills. No disrepect meant to any true marksman that are at a different level than me. I don't see why they would bother you. What is a "true" marksman? Is a child who enjoys hitting coke-bottles with a sling-shot not a true marksman? A teenager with a .22 who hunts squirrels to help feed his family, priding himself in needing 1 bullet only for 1 squirrel? or is a true marksman a Marine with an M40, who must kill people from a half-mile away lest they kill him or his brethren? What is a true marksman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylaboy Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Ha. Point Taken. I am not your typical gunclub guy. I just like to stay proficient with my weapons and be able to cut someone in two if I am required to do so. I was refering to those guys that camp out at those ranges and obviously have a life style that revolves around the sport some of those ranges exist for. Like any sport, club, or group, they have their own unwritten rules and ettiquete, and I was just curious if I was going to have to buttstroke anyone for getting in my way. Sure would be a shame to jam some safe queen up some poor joe's arse for smartin off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agm65ccip Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 How frowned upon is it to bring and use a Tactical weapon like an M4 to a Skeet Range to use specifally for reflex and target acquistion training? The range I go to doesnt care what you bring, they are more concerned about you being safe. That said if you talk to the range officer I would ask if there are any rules for the type of gun, if he says no then I would be wholly unconcerned with what other shooters think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Good work, genius boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TokenWhiteMale Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 In all fairness, any time you are shooting a single projectile, "minute adjustments" will be required. The Benelli system is simply different, instead of lining up the dots and putting the target behind the center one, the target IS the center dot, and the dot on the FSP just keeps you from "losing it" in a low-light situation. Not bad, just...different. I am planning on running a T1 micro as soon as Kip gets his new rail on the market. I have an old 870 I keep behind the front door and don't use it for anything other than feral cats or a home defense option. Don't hunt with it or shoot the clays. I think it would be a good canidate for an alternative sight. Can you get a clamp (barrel) mount for them? Have not looked into it yet at all. I'd like to lop the barrel from 30 to 22 also... Regarding the rest; As far as anyone getting mouthy about what kind of shotgun you are using at the range, forget about it. Almost everyone I have ever met act like sportsmen with a common interest. Shooting. Does not really matter what model you are shooting, it's the common ground between us that counts. Given the way public opinion is being manipulated against gun ownership and gun owners, some sense of community and being a part of it should be more the norm than exception. Only somebody acting foolish has ever drawn any attention that I have seen. Some of the comments sounded a bit strange. Maybe things are different where I have been shooting. Or maybe I just need more testosterone to adjust my perspective... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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