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2.75" OOO Buckshot Testing

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"Choosing a bullet because of relatively shallow penetration will seriously compromise weapon effectiveness, and needlessly endanger the lives of the law enforcement officers using it. No law enforcement officer has lost his life because a bullet over penetrated his adversary, and virtually none have ever been sued for hitting an innocent bystander through an adversary. On the other hand, tragically large numbers of officers have been killed because their bullets did not penetrate deeply enough.

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." (Special Agent Urey W. Patrick)

Trapshooter1,

Yes 6 would penetrate a hollow bedroom door. 7 1/2 will penetrate a hollow bedroom door. It can go through 2 sheets of drywall, albeit probably with less than lethal force, but certainly enough to blind a family member on the other side and let's not forget the wad.. The wad will penetrate as well and if it hits someone in the head it could kill them. If you are going to use birdshot consider using a full choke. (The wider the pattern, the more you increase the chance of collateral damage.) However, should you need to switch out for a slug, say goodbye to your barrel. Another reason to consider not using birdshot for HD.

What I'm looking for in a HD round is the one with the largest pellet diameter that produces the deepest penetration, lowest noise, lowest recoil and tightest pattern with a IC or C choke. For that I present you Federal LE127.

LE127 is copper plated 00 buckshot with "FLITECONTROL." Copper plated pellets increase penetration and have a tighter pattern than lead alone. And with its FLITECONTROL it's unbeatable. With a Cylinder choke 9 pellets at 10 yards produces a oversized slug like hole. At 25 yards I get all 9 pellets in a 6" circle. 9 .33 copper plated pellets so close together produces significant penetration and one **** of a permanent cavity.

FYI, if you can't find Federal LE127 just get Federal PFC154; it's the exact same round in a different box. (Benelli recommends using only IC or C chokes for slugs and Federal recommends using IC or C chokes for its "FLITECONTROL." In fact, using a F or IM choke with a FLITECONTROL round will deform the shot cup and open the shot up more.)

 

I agree with 99% of what you said and also use FE127 as my preferred buckshot, but shooting a rifled slug through a full choke will NOT destroy, or even have any affect on the barrel.

 

I have shot hundreds of slugs through my barrel with a full choke with no effect ... the threads are fine, the chokes are fine, everything is fine.

 

Modern chokes are WAY tougher than a piece of lead. The only bad thing that happens when shooting slugs through a full choke is that the slug gets deformed slightly, which can degrade accuracy.

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I agree with 99% of what you said and also use FE127 as my preferred buckshot, but shooting a rifled slug through a full choke will NOT destroy, or even have any affect on the barrel.

 

I have shot hundreds of slugs through my barrel with a full choke with no effect ... the threads are fine, the chokes are fine, everything is fine.

 

Modern chokes are WAY tougher than a piece of lead. The only bad thing that happens when shooting slugs through a full choke is that the slug gets deformed slightly, which can degrade accuracy.

 

 

If you put a LOT of them through the choke, it leads it up and you have to brush it out with a "tornado" a little more vigorously than an IC choke.

 

Errr...thats all I come up with for negatives of a full-choke + slug except slight POSSIBLE accuracy degredation.

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Hi Duggan,

Glad to hear you have not had any problems shooting slugs using a full choke, but it appears you have been lucky or perhaps others not so much. When I spoke with a Benelli rep she said they would not warranty my barrel if anything happened to it if I used a slug with a full choke and that she knew of several failures because of this. In fact, she said they have had gunsmiths send in pictures of split barrels do to this issue. In addition, I received the following e-mail from Benelli USA Customer Service,

"NEVER, EVER shoot a slug through a full choke. When shooting a slug

through your M4, please use the cylinder choke. This choke will have 5

notches on the end or 5 stars on the side. There is a very real

possibility of damage to the firearm and to you. The constriction on

the full choke is way too tight to allow that slug to pass through it."

 

Thank you,

Customer Service

Benelli USA

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Hi Duggan,

Glad to hear you have not had any problems shooting slugs using a full choke, but it appears you have been lucky or perhaps others not so much. When I spoke with a Benelli rep she said they would not warranty my barrel if anything happened to it if I used a slug with a full choke and that she knew of several failures because of this. In fact, she said they have had gunsmiths send in pictures of split barrels do to this issue. In addition, I received the following e-mail from Benelli USA Customer Service,

"NEVER, EVER shoot a slug through a full choke. When shooting a slug

through your M4, please use the cylinder choke. This choke will have 5

notches on the end or 5 stars on the side. There is a very real

possibility of damage to the firearm and to you. The constriction on

the full choke is way too tight to allow that slug to pass through it."

 

Thank you,

Customer Service

Benelli USA

 

I am sorry, but that's just wrong.

 

They are saying that to limit their liability and cost, nothing more nothing less.

 

If they say "sure you can use any choke" and you are one of the rare cases where something bad happens, it is on them to replace the gun, replace your arm, etc. They don't want to be sued, so they pick and recommend the safest, lowest common denominator.

 

By their logic, a MOD choke would also be "too tight", and that is just laughable.

 

If you are worried about it, sure, go the safe route ... but the whole "slugs cant go through full chokes" is a huge myth that has been busted 1000 times by real world shooting.

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Hi Duggan,

 

Glad to hear you have not had any problems shooting slugs using a full choke, but it appears you have been lucky or perhaps others not so much. When I spoke with a Benelli rep she said they would not warranty my barrel if anything happened to it if I used a slug with a full choke and that she knew of several failures because of this. In fact, she said they have had gunsmiths send in pictures of split barrels do to this issue. In addition, I received the following e-mail from Benelli USA Customer Service,

 

"NEVER, EVER shoot a slug through a full choke. When shooting a slug

through your M4, please use the cylinder choke. This choke will have 5

notches on the end or 5 stars on the side. There is a very real

possibility of damage to the firearm and to you. The constriction on

the full choke is way too tight to allow that slug to pass through it."

 

Thank you,

Customer Service

Benelli USA

 

 

Pure BS. They only say this so that retards who shoot sabot slugs and Buckhammer slugs in smooth-bores don't blow their weapon up. This logic would presume that the fixed MOD choke military weapons cannot use slugs. We know this to be ********.

 

Foster slugs work just fine in up to and including Full choke weapons. Says so right on my box of Remington Sluggers.

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I think Benelli has that policy becuase of the possibility of using cast alloy slugs like a Dixie slug.

 

I would not want to shoot a Dixie slug out of a full choke. With foster type slugs, no problem, but all slugs are not created equal.

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Federal LE Tactical Low-Recoil 00 buck (9 pellet)...insane patterns at 35+ yard distances (all of mine being shot out of an 18.5 - 20" "true" smoothbore no less). Good for HD as well due to respectable "follow-ups" (if necessary), coupled with less penetration as compared to "full-on" 00 buck.

 

1145 vs. 1325...not a huge difference, but certainly a noticeable one (at least in terms of recoil suppression) IMHO.

Edited by shotgunNoob

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FedFlcic2.jpg

FedFlcsf2.jpg

Shadow shooter, it does not look like you know what you are talking about. All your information is manufacturer BS. I used the same flite control rounds through the same gun, same yardage, same target using a rest pointing at the same spot on the target the only thing I switched were the chokes and here are the results. The top target was an Improved cylinder choke and I had 20 kill hits and 112 over all hits. The bottom target was a super full turkey choke and I had 32 kill hits and 173 overall hits. I am still impressed that an IC patterned that good but it didnt pattern better tan a SF so chokes full and tighter do not deform the wad and make it pattern wider. You can fire a slug up to a full choke I have seen it done did not do a thing to the barrel or choke but I would not go any tighter. And my doors are not hollow they are hard wood I doubt the wad can kill you.

__________________

a-s-sume makes an a-s-s out of u and me

Edited by Trapshooter1

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FedFlcic2.jpg

FedFlcsf2.jpg

Shadow shooter, it does not look like you know what you are talking about. All your information is manufacturer BS. I used the same flite control rounds through the same gun, same yardage, same target using a rest pointing at the same spot on the target the only thing I switched were the chokes and here are the results. The top target was an Improved cylinder choke and I had 20 kill hits and 112 over all hits. The bottom target was a super full turkey choke and I had 32 kill hits and 173 overall hits. I am still impressed that an IC patterned that good but it didnt pattern better tan a SF so chokes full and tighter do not deform the wad and make it pattern wider. You can fire a slug up to a full choke I have seen it done did not do a thing to the barrel or choke but I would not go any tighter. And my doors are not hollow they are hard wood I doubt the wad can kill you.

__________________

a-s-sume makes an a-s-s out of u and me

 

On the targets I have shot (hard targets) the wad left narry a dent, even on pine. I doubt it could kill, and would wager that it would hurt like a super-badass paintball. If it hit an infant in the head, or pegged you in the eye, there could be issues, but COM or something, I doubt it would be fatal unless it was point-blank, and that wouldn't matter then would it?

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Good call on the tighter chokes with the Federal LE/PFC line. I did precisely that and had better patterns. So much for manufactures' recommendations.

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http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0031734215832a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=federal+turkey&sort=all&Go.y=0&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=0&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

Per the manufacturer, optimal performance will be obtained when used with non-ported chokes having a constriction of .665 of an inch and larger. Ported chokes can be used, but may not pattern as well.
This may be different with buckshot but this is what it says for federal mag shok flite control turkey loads. .665 is super full what I used by the way. Edited by Trapshooter1

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I spoke with Federal and they recommended a full choke for the best patterns w/their LE/PFC buckshot lines. (So much for what my friend said they recommended.) The guy I spoke with noted a .665 should work just fine, but w/the larger shot he said just use the full....

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