darkjedi351 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Why are you knocking being 23? I think that ageism in this case is ad hominum. i'm not trying to attack you. i just don't think you should be so quick to disagree with someone that's almost 3 times your age. I have a 20yr old daughter who thinks she knows it all too and is quick to disregard a little wisdom from time to time. always so quick to grow up but when you get older you'll say it's just a number. 1100 were the sh*t when i was growing up but yea you had to change barrels for magnum and non mag shells. that's as long as you had a magnum receiver. it was mainly about what we were hunting. dove and quail you would use the 2.75 barrel and duck,geese and pheasant you would use the 3" magnum barrel. replaceable chokes were a luxury back then too. if it matters at all i did sell my 1100 w/ 3 barrels for my M2T and i love the **** out of it. it eats anything and everything i feed it but now i need a field gun. what do you think about the ultra light. that would make benelli 2 and rem 1100 1. only because i'm saving my 1st gun, a 1981 remington 1100 featherweight for my youngest son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Why are you knocking being 23? I think that ageism in this case is ad hominum. i'm not trying to attack you. i just don't think you should be so quick to disagree with someone that's almost 3 times your age. I have a 20yr old daughter who thinks she knows it all too and is quick to disregard a little wisdom from time to time. always so quick to grow up but when you get older you'll say it's just a number. 1100 were the sh*t when i was growing up but yea you had to change barrels for magnum and non mag shells. that's as long as you had a magnum receiver. it was mainly about what we were hunting. dove and quail you would use the 2.75 barrel and duck,geese and pheasant you would use the 3" magnum barrel. replaceable chokes were a luxury back then too. if it matters at all i did sell my 1100 w/ 3 barrels for my M2T and i love the **** out of it. it eats anything and everything i feed it but now i need a field gun. what do you think about the ultra light. that would make benelli 2 and rem 1100 1. only because i'm saving my 1st gun, a 1981 remington 1100 featherweight for my youngest son. I am mainly into combat/"tactical" (whatever THAT means now days) weaponry. As such, I have no meaningful opinion on the ultra light. I don't take age into account when it comes to "facts". When it comes to dealing with people, or "experience" type things (building an engine, framing a house, etc. etc.) I take age/experience HEAVILY into account. The reason I disreguard age by and large is because of the proliferate amount of people older than me who aren't that bright---and the tonnes of people younger than me who are more knowledgeable. Age is only an indicator when it comes to experience, and that is a rule of thumb only. Just my .02 No, I have never owned an 1100, but I see complaints about them all the time on other forums and from people I talk to. I know about having to adjust gas ports.Having to keep a GOOD mag-spring in it, etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENELEO Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I do have a clue about the 1100 and most of it's fickle points. True, it is second hand knowledge, but it is from knowledgeable people. What you MIGHT try, is opening up the gas ports. To do this, you get a large bit set with plenty of sizes that go up in small increments. You enlarge the gas ports bit by bit by going up size by size until you get positive function with the rounds you wish to use. HOWEVER: When I buy something, I think it should function well as it comes from the factory. I don't belive in "break-in", and I will not tolerate imperfection when it comes to reliability. The only weapons I ever had that didn't run right out of the gate was a P226Elite ST and a Les Baer TRS. Both are now no-longer with me. I gave each one 500 rounds to straighten out. They did not. Kimber's exec taking over SIG has resulted in FAIL, and Les Baer's obsession with slide/frame fit is pointless. Plenty of "looser" 1911's will shoot right with his without the problems his have. Why are you knocking being 23? I think that ageism in this case is ad hominum. Second hand knowledge is fine, as long as it comes from Experience, not someone's "opinion", or conjecture, which in my experience is where most professed "knowledge" seems to come from. "Opening up the gas ports" that was the suggested remedy back on page one, remember? "I don't belive in "break-in", and I will not tolerate imperfection when it comes to reliability". "Break in" is necessary on any firearm that you are staking your life on!!!!! Every new firearm that is put into service whether in the military, or police use, will go to the range to be broken in, you discover the failures or flaws in manufacture on the range, not in combat, or on the street when your life depends on it. This is from personal experience, not second hand knowledge. Age has nothing to do with it, it is whether you have the ability to learn, and as seen from some of the "newbies" right from the academy, they allready know it all, and don't have the ability to learn anything else, even if it may save they're life. I don't own an M-4, I have an M-3, If the Marines use the M-4, then I feel it couldn't be beat, (this is second hand knowledge I feel confident believing) but I would like to save my pennys to buy one. Everyone has there own likes and dis-likes in weapons, and there own opinions, to which they are entitled. IMOHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Second hand knowledge is fine, as long as it comes from Experience, not someone's "opinion", or conjecture, which in my experience is where most professed "knowledge" seems to come from. "Opening up the gas ports" that was the suggested remedy back on page one, remember? "I don't belive in "break-in", and I will not tolerate imperfection when it comes to reliability". "Break in" is necessary on any firearm that you are staking your life on!!!!! Every new firearm that is put into service whether in the military, or police use, will go to the range to be broken in, you discover the failures or flaws in manufacture on the range, not in combat, or on the street when your life depends on it. This is from personal experience, not second hand knowledge. Age has nothing to do with it, it is whether you have the ability to learn, and as seen from some of the "newbies" right from the academy, they allready know it all, and don't have the ability to learn anything else, even if it may save they're life. I don't own an M-4, I have an M-3, If the Marines use the M-4, then I feel it couldn't be beat, (this is second hand knowledge I feel confident believing) but I would like to save my pennys to buy one. Everyone has there own likes and dis-likes in weapons, and there own opinions, to which they are entitled. IMOHO. By break-in, I meant: A period of time where the weapon malfunctions consistantly because it was not manufactured to operational tolerances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamlau Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 $700 collapsible stock, LNIB, IF you get a great deal. Most for for $800+. Is that how much they are going for these days? I have been away too long and I have two of those collapsible puppies, one LNIB and the other, NIB. Yes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Is that how much they are going for these days? I have been away too long and I have two of those collapsible puppies, one LNIB and the other, NIB. Yes... I got mine for $725 Shipped next-day air a few weeks ago. Plenty of people on this forum have sold them for $800+ a pop and gotten rid of them fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisske Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Geneleo & Darkjedi, +1 one your comments. As far as why own a benelli? Because I can afford to nowadays. (after 10 years in service and a few more in security). It is a great all round shotgun and stretches the limits of a tactical shotgun. Unob, if you are so pickled ass about reiability, get a moss pump gun. Nothing is more reliable than a pump. A pump gun is more reliable then a auto. ( nothing against autos, I love my M4) And as a general statement, the benelli M4 outperforms most of it's owners. In all my time using a pump as a weapon, I never emptied the mag (eg emptied out themat so fast I did not have time to reload) or needed the speed of an auto. HD and tactical situations are lightning fast and dynamic. If I had to rate all the elements involved in one of the situations mentioned above, the aspect of having semi auto ranks at bottom. That is being told by EXPERIENCE, not Internet opinions, which we all know are like ********. (everyone has one) 23? I thought you were 16 and just oiling your daddy's " boomstick" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisske Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 BTW Unob, I am just poking fun to give some perspective. You will be the same way in 10-20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler&kochp2000 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 UNOB? hmmmmm ! that does not sound nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisske Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 H&K - you are a vagina. Are you 6 years old just fresh off your mamas tit? Now, that doesn't sound nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 BTW Unob, I am just poking fun to give some perspective. You will be the same way in 10-20 years. Lol, I don't take offense easily at all. Really the only time I get irritated is if someone physically insults me. I tend to lose my temper then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Geneleo & Darkjedi, +1 one your comments. As far as why own a benelli? Because I can afford to nowadays. (after 10 years in service and a few more in security). It is a great all round shotgun and stretches the limits of a tactical shotgun. Unob, if you are so pickled ass about reiability, get a moss pump gun. Nothing is more reliable than a pump. A pump gun is more reliable then a auto. ( nothing against autos, I love my M4) And as a general statement, the benelli M4 outperforms most of it's owners. In all my time using a pump as a weapon, I never emptied the mag (eg emptied out themat so fast I did not have time to reload) or needed the speed of an auto. HD and tactical situations are lightning fast and dynamic. If I had to rate all the elements involved in one of the situations mentioned above, the aspect of having semi auto ranks at bottom. That is being told by EXPERIENCE, not Internet opinions, which we all know are like ********. (everyone has one) 23? I thought you were 16 and just oiling your daddy's " boomstick" I suppose after the Military had Mossberg fix their trigger-group...for the third time...that the Mossy is decently reliable. I will keep my M4 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler&kochp2000 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 LOL that was not nice either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Geneleo & Darkjedi, +1 one your comments. As far as why own a benelli? Because I can afford to nowadays. (after 10 years in service and a few more in security). It is a great all round shotgun and stretches the limits of a tactical shotgun. Unob, if you are so pickled ass about reiability, get a moss pump gun. Nothing is more reliable than a pump. A pump gun is more reliable then a auto. ( nothing against autos, I love my M4) And as a general statement, the benelli M4 outperforms most of it's owners. In all my time using a pump as a weapon, I never emptied the mag (eg emptied out themat so fast I did not have time to reload) or needed the speed of an auto. HD and tactical situations are lightning fast and dynamic. If I had to rate all the elements involved in one of the situations mentioned above, the aspect of having semi auto ranks at bottom. That is being told by EXPERIENCE, not Internet opinions, which we all know are like ********. (everyone has one) 23? I thought you were 16 and just oiling your daddy's " boomstick" I'd argue that you are much more likely to short stroke a pump under stress than you are to inadvertently jam an m4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisske Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Unob and H&K, Thanks for being cool! I am just getting back from seeing my service buddys! Yeah, we were young, mean as ****, and damn deadly! Semper fi MF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisske Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I'd argue that you are much more likely to short stroke a pump under stress than you are to inadvertently jam an m4. Duggan, I have been on severalbdifferent continents and put down many a "badguy". But the only thing I ever short stroked is in my pants. Spend a couple a years training to kill people, and "short stroking" won't be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Duggan, I have been on severalbdifferent continents and put down many a "badguy". But the only thing I ever short stroked is in my pants. Spend a couple a years training to kill people, and "short stroking" won't be a problem. http://www.enzyte.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisske Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I ain't denying it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) Duggan, I have been on severalbdifferent continents and put down many a "badguy". But the only thing I ever short stroked is in my pants. Spend a couple a years training to kill people, and "short stroking" won't be a problem. I'm not saying that you can't train to eliminate short strokes. I'm sure you can ... with lots of repetition and trigger time. I am saying that your average home defender is different from a combat marine with thousands of hours of trigger time. "Normal" people short stroke pump shotguns all the time, even when they are just casually shooting. I've seen it dozens of times. It is 100% their fault, not the guns ... but that is the way things are. You can't expect that every shooter is going to be shoot like a professional, as such, the argument that one can "simply train like heck to avoid short strokes" is valid, but only to an extent, because the reality is that most people will not do this. As such, I retain my argument that for MOST PEOPLE, they will be much more likely to short stoke a pump than randomly jam an m4 ... why? Because semis are inherently easier to shoot than manual reloading platforms. Both are viable platforms, but one is easier in that it eliminates a potentially problematic step. Edited June 14, 2009 by Duggan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENELEO Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I'm not saying that you can't train to eliminate short strokes. I'm sure you can ... with lots of repetition and trigger time. I am saying that your average home defender is different from a combat marine with thousands of hours of trigger time. "Normal" people short stroke pump shotguns all the time, even when they are just casually shooting. I've seen it dozens of times. It is 100% their fault, not the guns ... but that is the way things are. You can't expect that every shooter is going to be shoot like a professional, as such, the argument that one can "simply train like heck to avoid short strokes" is valid, but only to an extent, because the reality is that most people will not do this. As such, I retain my argument that for MOST PEOPLE, they will be much more likely to short stoke a pump than randomly jam an m4 ... why? Because semis are inherently easier to shoot than manual reloading platforms. Both are viable platforms, but one is easier in that it eliminates a potentially problematic step. Short stroking a pump is very real, even for officers that have spent a lot of time in training. We see it all the time in annul in-service training. In my experience there are two types of officers that have trouble, those that are trying to get as "fast" as possible, and those of small stature, (arms not long enough to physically actuate the pump action / slide), these are the officers who can benefit the most from a semi-auto, with the proper training. Police administrators though still shy away from the semi-auto, except for speacialized units (swat). They say it is for "reliability" but it really comes down to "budget". A Mossberg 500 / 590 series or Remington 870 is cheaper for the tax payers to supply the officers with than a M-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisske Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I agree folks can short stroke, but as a tool, a pump is more reliable. People that shortstroke either need more training, or don't have the disposition for the job. When I referenced the most important factors during a high stress situation, training and "testicular fortitude" rank at the top. Additionally, I would bet that most HD shootings (as well as law enforcement shooting) are single shot events. Go into you garage and close the doors and blast off a round. Then try to aim for a follow up shot. I think you will not be thinking straight if it is the first time you experience it. I mean we can all admit a pump is more reliable then an auto mechanically, I think you guys are refering to the human reliability. That can only be remedied by training. Both physical and mental. You can have a bunch of I'll trained greenies running around with super shotguns that will either be killed, or even kill each other becuase of poor training. No flame, just the basic rules. Be well. I think this type of talk is helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisske Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Just FYI in case I agree with your comments, you will avoid shortstroking by using a semi. (I am a little hung over) I just thought the point of reliability was being discussed in relation to why we love the M4. I love it becuase it is a bad ass shotgun that is fun to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvoor Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 On a cost basis the 1100 is the better choice, the M4 engineering is not without flaw, some members have reported chronic feed problems, it's heavy, not versatile and will be replaced by something better. But man is it cool. For the cost of the M4 you can buy an 1100 and two decent handguns for a complete personal defense system. Speaking of cost I bought mine earlier this year at what looks like the height of the price increase. With no accessories and a fixed stock the black was $1700 and camo was $1800. No regrets and now I realize that after purchasing this fine weapon that I really need a SIG 556! Then I will finally have all the cool toys.. As far as availability goes a good shop is your best source. Keep in touch with them and when they become available they might set one aside for you. The entire market has been hit with a run on guns. Whether gun makers respond with increased production or keep a low profile remains to be seen. Combine this uncertainty with the current administration's plan to eventually shoot their wad on gun control and The Peoples Committee to Protect The People may confiscate your 1100 before you return. OK, I'm getting off topic too. Return safe and thanks for taking up the battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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