OhioM4 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Never considered myself an assault rifle kind of guy but I may have to get me one of these. I can send it off to Italy with my M4 and have them engraved as a limited edition matched set...set number 1 of 1. Benelli MR1 Carbine (Civilian Beretta Rx4 Storm) Benelli, not wanting to miss out, has entered the lucrative black rifle market with Benelli MR1 Carbine, a 5.56mm gas piston operated rifle. Benelli MR1 Carbine The MR1 Carbine is the civilian version of the Beretta Rx4 Storm. Benelli, a subsidiary of Beretta, designed the ARGO gas system used by the MR1/Rx4 and, at least in Italy, manufactured both the MR1 and the Rx4 Storm. I suspect that the MR1’s sold in the United States will be manufactured at the Beretta plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody6.0 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 So I wonder what they did or whos arm they twisted to get the OK to bring this to the states. As the RX4 it's realease was pushed back again and again only to be cancelled. Needless to say I am going to pick one of these up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Given Steve's post on the deterioration of the ARGO gas piston in his well-maintained R1, I think I'll stick with the tried and proven AR-15 design. Edited August 26, 2009 by tucker301 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhoi_fan Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Given Steve's post on the deterioration of the ARGO gas piston in his well-maintained R1, I think I'll stick with the tried and proven AR-15 design. Yeah, proven to be unreliable when not meticulously maintained. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 That was taken care of back in the early days of Viet Nam. But you go ahead and keep living in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhoi_fan Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 That was taken care of back in the early days of Viet Nam. But you go ahead and keep living in the past. No, proven by the Contras in the jungles of Central America, as told to me by someone who was contracted to be there. It doesn't take an astrophysicist to conclude that something which ****s where it eats is going to get indigestion on occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoAtrox Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Where's the daggone skeleton stock from the Rx4? WTF is with Benelli USA and its refusal to make collapisble stocks available in the US? They know we Americans demand adjustible LOP, don't they? And, yes, the AR-15 is considerably more reliable that it was back in the 16's and early 70's; particularly with piston systems becoming the standard moving forward. That said, because of its close tolerances, it can still jam quite easily when grime gets around the bolt head; and civilian rifle manufactures are making more and more AR's without forward assist and ejection port covers. I'm going to stop there before I get too off-topic and start ranting. Suffice it to say, the AR-15 is still my go-to firearm if I need a carbine for mid-range target engagement. (But I'm a Marine who keeps his firearms very clean.) Edited August 26, 2009 by LeoAtrox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhoi_fan Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Where's the daggone skeleton stock from the Rx4? WTF is with Benelli USA and its refusal to make collapisble stocks available in the US? They know we Americans demand adjustible LOP, don't they? And, yes, the AR-15 is considerably more reliable that it was back in the 16's and early 70's; particularly with piston systems becoming the standard moving forward. That said, because of its close tolerances, it can still jam quite easily when grime gets around the bolt head; and civilian rifle manufactures are making more and more AR's without forward assist and ejection port covers. I'm going to stop there before I get too off-topic and start ranting. Suffice it to say, the AR-15 is still my go-to firearm if I need a carbine for mid-range target engagement. (But I'm a Marine who keeps his firearms very clean.) Being that you're a Marine who experienced the proper training in care and maintenance of the M16 DI platform along with the discipline to do so makes all the difference in the world. The AR is definitely not suited to someone who lacks that experience, especially noobs. I've been very interested in the gas piston conversions on the AR, not that I'm a big 5.56 fan, but I'm heavily leaning toward the 6.5 Grendel. But as a friend pointed out to me the other day that most, if not all (the LWRC complete rifle possibly being the sole exception, dunno about the Ruger) of the piston conversions on the AR are showing an inordinate amount wear on the buffer tube in very short order as a result of the off center vector applied to the bcg by the piston. I'm really looking forward to the BM/Remington ACR and would really like to get one in 6.5G. Edited August 26, 2009 by Sukhoi_fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Here are some pics of the ARGO system from what I'd call a moderately used hunting rifle. If they're putting the same system in these new rifles, then they're headed for disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody6.0 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Isn't there some way of finding out what the MR1 is using for the gas system? The RX4 has been out for years and there is no way someone hasn't had one apart somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody6.0 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Here is a exploded view: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 From the linked photos, it looks the same as the R1. I'm not against gas piston designs, but I am against the Benelli ARGO design. FNH has several nice offerings in 5.56 and 7.62, and their designs have proven reliable and effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody6.0 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Obviously like all 5.56 caliber fun guns I imagine the MR1 will see more rounds a day than the common R1 sees per year. So I wonder if this will show the weakness in the ARGO sooner or if the posted problem was age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 My R1 was showing heavy fouling and wear in the same area within the first 100 rounds of use. I now shoot a BAR for my deer rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioM4 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 I saw the R1 pictures and noticed the piston was really short and stubby compared to the pistons in the M4. The profile of the MR1 looked similar to the M4 and I was hoping for a different piston design. From the recent photos posted it looks like the MR1 will have the stubby piston similar to the R1. Oh well, I could dream couldn't I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioM4 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 I read on one of the Beretta forums that it is due out in November. I could only find press releases from gun magazine reviewers. I don't see any official word from Benelli or Beretta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker301 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 ACCOKEEK, MD (August 1, 2009) -- A combat carbine has to perform the first time, every time. The ultra-reliable ARGO (Auto-Regulating-Gas-Operated) system incorporated into the new Benelli MR1 does it for the U.S. military, and now can be the centerpiece of an effective home defense plan. The MR1 rifle, Benelli’s latest offering, is chambered in 5.56mm NATO (.223 Rem.) and uses the battle-proven ARGO system—the same system developed by Benelli for the M1014 and used for over a decade in multiple conflicts by the United States Marine Corps. The sights are a military-style aperture, adjustable for windage and elevation in the field, using only a cartridge rim. A Picatinny rail allows mounting of both conventional and night-vision sights, while retaining metallic-sight capability. All steel parts are black phosphated and aluminum parts are hard-anodized in a matte finish for low visibility and corrosion resistance. The Benelli MR1 carbine comes standard with a five-round magazine, and can also accept standard M16 magazines. An optional Picatinny tri-rail forend kit is available for mounting a laser aiming device, front handle, illuminator and other accessories. The MR1 features a stainless steel, self-cleaning piston that operates directly against the proven rotating bolt, thereby eliminating the need for complex linkages found on other inferior gas systems. This piston-driven system (ARGO), perfected by Benelli, incorporates a gas port located just forward of the chamber where the gases are hotter and cleaner, resulting in less fouling and more reliable cycling. In function testing the MR1 exceeded the military requirements without malfunction. The result is a Benelli carbine with Marine-tough reliability able to function under the harshest environmental conditions. “The MR1 is another great development, and certainly a major milestone for Benelli,” said Stephen McKelvain, Benelli's VP of Marketing & Communications. “Any shooter who appreciates accuracy and reliability will have to own a Benelli MR1.” Specifications: Model MR1 Caliber 5.56mm NATO (.223 Rem.) Barrel Length 16 inches Sights Military-style Aperture Sight MetalFinish Black phosphate & hard-anodized in matte black finish Stock TacticalPistol Grip AverageWeight 7.9 lbs. OverallLength 37.1 inches BoreCharacteristics Hardchrome lined with a 1-in-9 right hand twist Methodof Operation ARGO (Auto-Regulating-Gas-Operated) MSRP $1299 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggan Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Well, I am an "assault rifle kind of guy", and I wouldn't buy one. But additional options are always nice I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioM4 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 ... uses the battle-proven ARGO system—the same system developed by Benelli for the M1014 and used for over a decade in multiple conflicts by the United States Marine Corps... Based on the photos posted of the stubby piston and the pitting and corrosion, I fail to see any similarity between the pistons on the shotguns and the ones on the rifle. The shotgun pistons are long enough and have enough ribs on them that I can see them continuing to function even if they corrode and pit. The rifle piston looks like the operating area is so short that any pitting is guaranteed to have a detrimental effect. I had hoped for more commitment to quality from Benelli. It looks like they are just jumping on the "Black Rifle" bandwagon:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioM4 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Well, I am an "assault rifle kind of guy", and I wouldn't buy one. But additional options are always nice I suppose. Duggan, what is your recommendation for a newbies first assault rifle 'o' wizened and wise one??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Yeah, proven to be unreliable when not meticulously maintained. lol Have you ever owned an AR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Based on the photos posted of the stubby piston and the pitting and corrosion, I fail to see any similarity between the pistons on the shotguns and the ones on the rifle. The shotgun pistons are long enough and have enough ribs on them that I can see them continuing to function even if they corrode and pit. The rifle piston looks like the operating area is so short that any pitting is guaranteed to have a detrimental effect. I had hoped for more commitment to quality from Benelli. It looks like they are just jumping on the "Black Rifle" bandwagon:( Shotguns operate at very low pressure compared to rifles. your M4S90 is very un-likely to suffer pitting like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioM4 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Have you ever owned an AR? Nope. The M4 was my first fire arm purchase. I've determined I'm more afraid of Obama than burglars at this point. I'm thinking of purchasing an AR and a semi auto pistol with some hi capacity mags, possibly a Glock or a Sig. I've done research on the pistols and have rented a variety of them at the range. I don't have much info on the ARs. I've looked at the S&W M&P series and the Sig 556. Both are pricey and I wouldn't know a quality AR if it shot me in the a$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhoi_fan Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Have you ever owned an AR? I've had no less than 6, 4 of which a buddy and I built up on Eagle Arms (Armalite) lowers using mil spec parts (as in not commercial). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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