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Commando

Waterfowl Ammunition

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Ok guys what duck loads have you patterened and appear to work well. I am looking at the 3 inch shells #4 and I have picked up:

 

Kent Fast Steel 12 G 3" 1 1/8 #4 1560 FPS

 

Federal Premium Ultra Shok 12G 3" 1 1/8 #4 1550 FPS

 

I will do a test pattern using Carlson's extend steel choke tubes in Cyl and IC..

 

Give me your thoughts.

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buy a box of the new hevisteel. they are still heavier than steel & and lots cheaper than actual hevishot.

Originally posted by Commando:

Ok guys what duck loads have you patterened and appear to work well. I am looking at the 3 inch shells #4 and I have picked up:

 

Kent Fast Steel 12 G 3" 1 1/8 #4 1560 FPS

 

Federal Premium Ultra Shok 12G 3" 1 1/8 #4 1550 FPS

 

I will do a test pattern using Carlson's extend steel choke tubes in Cyl and IC..

 

Give me your thoughts.

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You are better off slowing the shot down and shooting bigger shot size.

 

With 3.5 inch go with.

 

Go with 1 3/8 of 2 or 3 shot at 1450 to 1350 or 1 5/8 at 1350 of 2 or 3 shot.

 

Both the above loads will kill ducks to 40 yards if you think most of your shots will be at 30 to 40 shoot the 2 shot. If closer shoot the 3 shot 25 to 40 yards IC, inside 30 C, past 40 go with mod.

 

4 steel is only good on small ducks at close range, 30 or less regardless of speed.

 

For geese over land 1 shot in the same load works with IC or Mod, over water I shoot BB with Mod.

 

If hunting over tough water for geese you might consider kent impact in 3 or 1 shot with IM choke.

 

I shoot 3 inch steel 1 ¼ or 1 3/8 with the shot sizes and speeds mentioned.

 

Good luck

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Originally posted by sprigsss:

What tucker is trying to say is that he's a robo using P>$$y

Actually, sprigg,

I use Mojo, not robo. :eek:

 

And I still find it amusing that you'd use the latest greatest in shotshell and shotgun technologies, but draw your imaginary line at the use of legal robotic decoys.

 

If you're such a great duck talker, why not use 2-3/4" light steel loads. Surely, your calling prowess can make them land on the gun barrel tongue.gif

 

I know, I know... you could do that, were it not for those Ba$tards in the next blind using those sexy robots.

 

Good luck hunting this season - with your loin cloth and your stick!

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This topic isn't about robo.

 

But I've shot 2 3/4" estates in #3's for years and had no problems killing ducks. I bought a 3 1/2" chamber for deer hunting so why not shoot 3 1/2" shells at ducks if you have the capability. Estate makes a very affordable great shooting shotgun shell. Unlike you, I still use my hunting skills to get them close enough to shoot.

 

And contrary to what most people believe, I don't get much more range with the 3 1/2" shells than what I get with 2 3/4" shells. I do get greater density for the rare occaission we get geese pass by.

 

[ 08-22-2005, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: sprigsss ]

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I use Kent Matrix for waterfowl.

 

3" #5's & #3's, 1525 fps, 1.25 oz. Just bought 1000 rounds the other day.

 

Estates are crap. First hand, I have watched maybe 15 ftfs, 2 stuck wads, and 1 very dangerous delayed fire.

 

For steel, if forced to use it, I guess I'd use Federal Ultra Shok Hi Vel in #2's & BB's.

 

mudhen - CA

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Thats strange mudhen. I hunt in brackish water where the humidity is always 100% and I've been shooting ESTATES for about 8 years now and haven't had the first bad shell.

 

I've had several stuck wads where the pellets don't make it out the decoys with Federal, but I've never had a problem with the ESTATES in the saltwater and humidity.

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I hunt salty, brackish, and fw rice and marshes; I've seen Estates fail in all conditions.

 

Now, this was a few years back, and I recall some issues about bad batches, but why on earth would I even think about shooting a shell that I saw almost kill a fellow?

 

Just can't take the chance.

 

I'm glad you have not had any problems.

 

mudhen - CA

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Originally posted by mudhen:

For steel, if forced to use it, I guess I'd use Federal Ultra Shok Hi Vel in #2's & BB's.

 

mudhen - CA

What do you mean if forced to use it? Does that mean your Kent Matrix is something other than lead, but legal for waterfowl?

 

Edit: Never mind. Answered my own question with a quick google.

 

[ 08-22-2005, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: sdkidaho ]

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Just a little FYI I believe Estates are manufactured by Federal. The reason I know this is because I was in a sporting goods store in Augusta GA that had a new shipment of Estates, the sealing tape around the pallets had the Federal name and logo on it. I would assume that Federal had some part in it.

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All I can say is to use what works for you. If ESTATE is made by federal it sure is strange how I've had tons of misfires with FEDERAL and none with ESTATES. Its also strange that mudhen has had several problems with ESTATES and I've had none.

 

In fact last year during Teal season I was using the remaining 2 3/4" shells leftover from years past. I had several ESTATES and several drylocks. I was always a strong believer in the drylocks, but started buying ESTATES because they were cheaper. When I couldn't find ESTATES I bought the drylocks. Well I had several Teal buzz the decoys and several duds in my box. I never really payed attention to what shells I was putting in my gun. After the 3rd or 4th shell I started loading with only 1 brand of shell. I never had another dud with the remaining ESTATES and had several with the drylocks. I finally just gave up on the drylocks and ended up throwing them away. I had always shot drylocks prior to finding the estates and up to that time, I never had any problems.

 

So I guess you can get a bad box of shells by any company. But until I get a bad box of ESTATES I'll stick with them. I haven't been able to find a better shell for the price. If I could find the Kent Fast Steel around here I'd give those a shot, but why fix something that ain't broke.

 

I understand you not wanting to shoot ESTATES after having a few problems. Thats exactly why I won't shoot Federals. I know a ton of people that shoot only Federal and have no problems. But after getting several wads stuck in the barrel I'm too scared to take the chance again. It was probably just a fluke that I got the bad box, but if you found a shell that works for you, there's no reason to try a shell that has performed poorly for you.

 

It is quite interesting how some people have horrible experiences with a particular brand and others have absolutely no problems.

 

[ 08-22-2005, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: sprigsss ]

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Blackjack, Federal's involvement with Estate is a recent thing. Estate has been around for some time. My issues were during the 00-01 waterfowl season.

 

I'm sure Federal has it's issues too, but I'm on 15,000+ Federal steel shot loads with no problems, so I'll stick with 0/15,000 versus the many failures I've witnessed with Estates, albeit some time ago.

 

Drylock and Kent Steel are crap too. Kent steel is famous for undersized brass that expands and sticks (saw that 20-25 times just last year alone), and Drylocks are often cut too long in the hull and they jam in semis and pumps (saw that 10+ times last year).

 

It's all about quality control at the mass ammo plants.

 

Cheap ammo is generally crap.

 

Why anyone would spend good $$$ for a good gun and then try to feed it the dirtiest, poorest made crap is beyond me....

 

mudhen - CA

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The original topic was about what loads are being shot at waterfowl.

I think of two things mentioned here that must be addressed that have been hawed at, but not seriously addressed. Why we use the loads we do! I think that a lot of your complaints are due more to consistentency and reliability problems. #1 If you got the right gun/choke combo. #2 what conditions and birds are you shooting in and at.

The #1 thing is to successively kill that bird and get in the blind. A GOOD smothbore and a GOOD dog are the #1 ingredients to this.

Back to your reliability issues. I have my favorite shells and you have yours, but I think there is not a shell on the market that is worse than Remington, why? Because of the awful powder they use. It's horrible! It does not burn complete and has lots of filler in it that will gum up MOST guns and the debri from unburnt filler gets in your eyes.

Does this mean it does not kill ducks and geese, NO! It does, but we are talking about reliability issues a lot on this thread. I think that if you guys would shoot guns with chrome lined bores you would be better off. Why? Then 90% of the problems you are having will be non-issues!

I shoot the most reliable auto there is, more reliable than pumps and two barrels. I shoot the Beretta Xtrema.

I Guide waterfowl hunters all season long, day-in and day-out. I see every gun and every shotshell made being used on my hunts. All guns have issues, EXCEPT the Xtrema, PERIOD!

Secondly The shells that should be shot should be shells that have a consistent history of out performing all other shells. Federal and Winchester are the ones, HANDS DOWN!

On what size shot you should use;

Speaking only on steel shot, NOW!

(Remember birds at 20yds will be at 50yds by your third shot) NO SUCH THING as a load for decoying. That's a MYTH. You can shoot 5 out of 7 birds in your limit within 30yds, but most likely the last two will be at 40+. I consistently make clean kills with my shells at 30 to 75+ yds on all species.

 

Big Honkers= never smaller than BBB, (T's are the ticket for 3" and 3.5" shooters)

 

Small Geese= BB's or larger (BBB's in 3.5" for long gunin' guys).

 

Mallards and big divers= never smaller than 3's (BB's are the ticket for guys with 3.5" guns and 1's are the killer for guys with 3" guns. They'll kill'em way out there boys).

 

Small ducks and divers= Never smaller than 4's (YES! they make 6's and 7's, only good for finish kills on the water, infact I always keep a handful of 6's to slouse any cripple that I see) You can use 2's but you better be shooting a 3", or better yet a 3.5" smoothbore.

 

Well here's my verdict! My Beretta will handle any load you have mentioned, Fiochi and Wolf included, without a hick-up. My all time favorite Steel Shot Loads are Federal Premiums and Winchester Premiums, Boys, I buy them by the case (1,000rds.) each season. I've got to tell you though that there are only two loads in my vest. 3.5" 2's and T's. On the Rare occasion I will just shoot BB's. AT EVERYTHING! It's to big for Teal and Woodducks and to small for the 747's, but somedays I am so on, it don't matter. Besides I am usually the back-up batter on the flock, being the guide and all.

I HATE seeing guys, AND I HATE the guys that shoot 2's and 1's at the big Geese. It should be a crime and a penalty in the Reg's. I watch a lot of Dads and Husbands sacrifice our precious Geese by allowing there kids and wives to use undersize shot and demunitive gauges. LOOK BOYS! We got to preserve our hunting by being ethical. And shooting small size Steel Shot is WRONG! PERIOD!

You got to repect these critters, they are flying 3,000 miles so you can blast them, well do them justice and kill the **** birds the first two shots. 4's and 1's on a body shot on a Goose or even a Mallard just won't kill them for the first mile. OH' they'll die but not in our spread and none us will count it as part of our bag limit will we?

So be the ethical hunter and don't cheat the birds and us.

-Mike

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