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M4 & 922r -Anyone made any find more parts yet?


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I wouldn't sell pistons to any of you if I were making them. The liability isn't worth it.

see thats part of the reason this country is so F-CKED UP!! because everyone wants to blame EVERYONE ELSE and not be accountable for their OWN actions!! :rolleyes: one would CHOOSE to purchase an experimental item, thus meaning no one else to blame!! i personaly would sign a release form to ease ones mind.;)

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see thats part of the reason this country is so F-CKED UP!! because everyone wants to blame EVERYONE ELSE and not be accountable for their OWN actions!! :rolleyes: one would CHOOSE to purchase an experimental item, thus meaning no one else to blame!! i personaly would sign a release form to ease ones mind.;)

 

If I put a piston you make into my gun and the piston you made was defective and I were injured because of the defect, how would my suing you translate to me not taking the blame for my own actions? What would I be to blame for?

 

This is not to say that I don't agree with you, that people don't take the blame for their own actions. But when a product fails and injures the consumer, do you think the company should not pay because it was the consumers fault? That's ridiculous.

 

If one could CHOOSE to purchase an experimental item and therefore remove all liability from the manufacturer, then all manufacturers would label their goods as merely experimental, to shift the liability. Again, ridiculous.

Edited by h.bowman
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Here is the difference. A member here is trying to help us 922r guys out by making some pistons. He is not a manufacturer or corporation he is just a guy with the capabilities to make something nobody else to this point is even attempting. I am with skeeter on this. If we are lucky enough and he comes through with these than yeah we are taking a chance and WE are going to have to except the fact that they may damage our M4s or even worse cause injury to ourselves. I believe that he is going to use proper steel and put some serious testing into it first before releasing them to us. I guess time will tell. Mike

 

If I put a piston you make into my gun and the piston you made was defective and I were injured because of the defect, how would my suing you translate to me not taking the blame for my own actions? What would I be to blame for?

 

This is not to say that I don't agree with you, that people don't take the blame for their own actions. But when a product fails and injures the consumer, do you think the company should not pay because it was the consumers fault? That's ridiculous.

 

If one could CHOOSE to purchase an experimental item and therefore remove all liability from the manufacturer, then all manufacturers would label their goods as merely experimental, to shift the liability. Again, ridiculous.

Edited by AR-BALLISTIC
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see thats part of the reason this country is so F-CKED UP!! because everyone wants to blame EVERYONE ELSE and not be accountable for their OWN actions!! :rolleyes: one would CHOOSE to purchase an experimental item, thus meaning no one else to blame!! i personaly would sign a release form to ease ones mind.;)

I so agree with that whole post!

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As Stranger Danger said, there is the Urbino coming out next month from Mesa Tactical. Here's the link for reference. So now you easily have 4 U.S. made parts, which easily puts up below the 3 required.

 

http://www.mesatactical.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=722&p=4

 

"Remember, this is simply an adjustable cheekpiece for existing Benelli M1014 collapsing stocks. We have not yet committed to producing a collapsing stock for the Benelli M4."

 

For what it's worth, Mesa is legendary for vaporware and never getting much of anything into actual production.

 

I'd be utterly shocked if they had a full stock shipping within the next year.

 

Heck, make that 2 years.

 

Not to be a killjoy, but don't hold your breath.

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If I put a piston you make into my gun and the piston you made was defective and I were injured because of the defect, how would my suing you translate to me not taking the blame for my own actions? What would I be to blame for?

 

 

You must be a lawyer, they always find a way to blame someone for something.

 

You chose to shoot the gun that should be reason enough to take responsibility for your actions!

 

You chose to change the pistons from the original design, that should be enough for you to take responsibility for your actions.

 

NEWGUNNER.

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You guys need to understand that there is a large body of law centered around the idea of "products liability."

 

You can argue with me until you are blue in the face.

 

Doesn't make a lick of difference who made it or who is buying it, or the reasons surrounding the deal.

 

The exposure to liability exists, no matter what you guys say.

 

I'm not going to argue with you.

 

I'm right. You are wrong.

 

And I'm not saying that in principal that I agree with my position. I'm just saying that I'm right. And you are wrong.

 

But I guarantee you this. If one of you put those pistons in your gun and somehow, someway, that gun blows up in your face and you die from it, or become so severely disabled that you can no longer work, your family won't be in here taking your place and arguing against product liability. Instead, they'll be sitting in a lawyers office plotting the lawsuit against the guy who sold you the defective pistons. Guaranteed.

 

That's all there is to say.

Edited by h.bowman
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You guys need to understand that there is a large body of law centered around the idea of "products liability."

 

You can argue with me until you are blue in the face.

 

Doesn't make a lick of difference who made it or who is buying it, or the reasons surrounding the deal.

 

The exposure to liability exists, no matter what you guys say.

 

I'm not going to argue with you.

 

I'm right. You are wrong.

 

And I'm not saying that in principal that I agree with my position. I'm just saying that I'm right. And you are wrong.

 

But I guarantee you this. If one of you put those pistons in your gun and somehow, someway, that gun blows up in your face and you die from it, or become so severely disabled that you can no longer work, your family won't be in here taking your place and arguing against product liability. Instead, they'll be sitting in a lawyers office plotting the lawsuit against the guy who sold you the defective pistons. Guaranteed.

 

That's all there is to say.

 

And Who created that, a LAWYER.

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If I put a piston you make into my gun and the piston you made was defective and I were injured because of the defect, how would my suing you translate to me not taking the blame for my own actions? What would I be to blame for?

 

This is not to say that I don't agree with you, that people don't take the blame for their own actions. But when a product fails and injures the consumer, do you think the company should not pay because it was the consumers fault? That's ridiculous.

 

If one could CHOOSE to purchase an experimental item and therefore remove all liability from the manufacturer, then all manufacturers would label their goods as merely experimental, to shift the liability. Again, ridiculous.

ONCE AGAIN!! YOU decided to buy the experimental parts!! and from a little guy who made them in his garage not some big corporation. that being said, YOU would be taking a chance by CHOOSING to buy the part. so if you got injured you'd sue him?? key word, EXPERIMENTAL!! the sad part is, that YOU EVEN THINK THIS WAY!!!! even knowing all the facts about these pistons!!! not to mention its PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT RUIN IT FOR EVERYBODY ELSE!!! with the comments you make and scareing possibly new inventions/ ideas from the little garage tinkerer!! YEAH, LETS JUST SCARE THE SH-T OUT OF ALL OF THEM, so NO-ONE will EVER take a chance and invent or recreate sh-t again!!!:rolleyes: the days of the innovative little guy that made this country great is OVER!!! because people like you and the SUE HAPPY way you think!!!! and you ruin it for some of us on this site that want these parts with your stupid comments. thanks dude!!

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ONCE AGAIN!! YOU decided to buy the experimental parts!! and from a little guy who made them in his garage not some big corporation. that being said, YOU would be taking a chance by CHOOSING to buy the part. so if you got injured you'd sue him?? key word, EXPERIMENTAL!! the sad part is, that YOU EVEN THINK THIS WAY!!!! even knowing all the facts about these pistons!!! not to mention its PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT RUIN IT FOR EVERYBODY ELSE!!! with the comments you make and scareing possibly new inventions/ ideas from the little garage tinkerer!! YEAH, LETS JUST SCARE THE SH-T OUT OF ALL OF THEM, so NO-ONE will EVER take a chance and invent or recreate sh-t again!!!:rolleyes: the days of the innovative little guy that made this country great is OVER!!! because people like you and the SUE HAPPY way you think!!!! and you ruin it for some of us on this site that want these parts with your stupid comments. thanks dude!!

 

None of this matters. None of it. You totally wasted your time typing it. In a courtroom, none of these considerations will matter, at all. Congratulations for typing a lot of crap that does not matter at all.

 

There are two ways of looking at it.

 

1. I tell the truth and spoil it for you.

 

2. I don't say anything and/or lie and spoil it for the garage tinkerer who could wind up in heaps of trouble when a product he makes hurts someone.

 

I have integrity. I'm not going to either 1) not say anything or 2) lie so someone else can be selfish about it.

 

Products liability is very serious. If you are liable for making a defective product, it could ruin you. The guy making the pistons could be financially ruined, and his family left in ruin, with children perhaps, so you can get your beloved 922r compliant pistons. Sounds pretty selfish to me.

 

I don't want to see that happen to anyone around here, that is, being ruined by a lawsuit. And if it does, I prefer they know the truth before getting into it, rather than not saying anything or lying to the person for the selfish motives of the others.

 

And I've not ruined it for anyone by saying what I've said. The garage tinkerer can buy insurance to cover products liability. Properly insured, I'd sell gas pistons if I knew how to make them. But, without insurance, making and selling something so important to the functioning of the gun is pure stupidity. In fact, making anything for a firearm...anything, without insurance, is pure stupidity.

 

I mean, some of the things I read here and in other gun forums is just pure nonsense. No wonder so many people find their butts in a sling.

 

And skeeter, I get some of what you are trying to say. But it is totally detached from reality, and from logic and reason. Leave the utopian dreams to the emotional liberal ideologue. The world works the way it works and your emotional whining about how you see it isn't doing anything other than getting your panties in a knot. And for no reason.

Edited by h.bowman
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None of this matters. None of it. You totally wasted your time typing it. In a courtroom, none of these considerations will matter, at all. Congratulations for typing a lot of crap that does not matter at all.

 

There are two ways of looking at it.

 

1. I tell the truth and spoil it for you.

 

2. I don't say anything and/or lie and spoil it for the garage tinkerer who could wind up in heaps of trouble when a product he makes hurts someone.

 

I have integrity. I'm not going to either 1) not say anything or 2) lie so someone else can be selfish about it.

 

Products liability is very serious. If you are liable for making a defective product, it could ruin you. I don't want to see that happen to anyone around here. And if it does, I prefer they know the truth before getting into it, rather than not saying anything or lying to the person for the selfish motives of the others.

 

And I've not ruined it for anyone by saying what I've said. The garage tinkerer can buy insurance to cover products liability. Properly insured, I'd sell gas pistons if I knew how to make them. But, without insurance, making and selling something so important to the functioning of the gun is pure stupidity.

Um, last time i checked its NOT your job to protect EVERYONE on this site or the planet!!!:rolleyes: and YEAH,lets buy more insurance?? and i do believe we are adults here. and more importantly we all know the laws here and who could be liable for what!! ALL THE JACK-A$$ LAWYERS in this country have taught us that!! so again, why make the comment?? who made you "The Benelli Forum Site Lawyer"??:rolleyes: again your comments about an OBVIOUS LIABILITY ruin it for others!! not to mention AGAIN your way of thinking HAS RUINED this country!!!! people tinkered and sold dangerous stuff/inventions from their garage in the last century, and it was just as dangerous then and people werent sue happy back then. but then came your way of thinking and F-CKED IT ALL UP!! thanks buddy!! .at least we know where you stand. OH, and again its NOT your JOB to protect me!!

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Um, last time i checked its NOT your job to protect EVERYONE on this site or the planet!!!:rolleyes:

 

No, but if I see someone who may do something to land their butt in a lot of trouble, I feel compelled to say something so they at least know that what they are doing could impact them in a negative way. I think a lot of people around here would appreciate someone telling them that what they are doing might be very bad for them.

 

and YEAH,lets buy more insurance?? and i do believe we are adults here. and more importantly we all know the laws here and who could be liable for what!!

 

You can speak for everyone? How do you know everyone here knows the laws and who could be liable for what? Can you vouch for 100% of all the members here about what they know?

 

ALL THE JACK-A$$ LAWYERS

 

Funny. I hope someday you never find yourself in legal trouble. But if you do, who will you call first?

 

why make the comment??

 

To help someone understand something they may not know about.

 

who made you "The Benelli Forum Site Lawyer"??:rolleyes:

 

Who made you admin? Who made you the person who knows what is best for everyone around here? You feel entitled to lie or not mention things that could get someone into hot water. You justify it with dreams of utopia and emotional rants. And your selfish desires to get your hands on something that you really don't need, at the possible expense of someone else and their family. Classy. Very classy.

 

again your comments about an OBVIOUS LIABILITY ruin it for the selfish motivations of others!!

 

Fixed.

 

not to mention AGAIN your way of thinking HAS RUINED this country!!!!

 

You talk about "facts" but then ignore facts. Fact is, it is not my way of thinking. But it is reality and I accept it for what it is, as I cannot change it.

 

You, on the other hand, think that whining about how it should be is going to make a difference.

 

people tinkered and sold dangerous stuff/inventions from their garage in the last century, and it was just as dangerous then and people werent sue happy back then.

 

Products liability has existed for a long time. This isn't something that was just created over the last 30 years. Besides, this is another example of the lack of relevance of your post. This does not matter. What matters is how it is now.

 

but then came your way of thinking and F-CKED IT ALL UP!! thanks buddy!! .at least we know where you stand.

 

You are so emotional about it, you are making this personal. I am not sue happy. I did not create the law. I'm just telling you and others how it is. There are others around here who may want to know what I said. This isn't a forum to communicate with just skeeter. I'm sure nobody around here considers each post in depth to figure out if it will be skeeter-approved.

 

Let me make this very clear - this - is - not - my - way - of - thinking. Period. I'm just telling it like it is.

 

OH, and again its NOT your JOB to protect me!!

 

I'm not protecting you. And I don't see it as my job to protect anyone. But I can't in good conscience, allow someone to do something that might put them in big trouble, without at a minimum a few words of warning. By saying what I've said, I'm protecting any person making parts that you so selfishly want to get your hands on. I guarantee you, others are glad I've said what I've said. And you are making yourself look like an ignorant jerk.

 

Quit while you are ahead.

Edited by h.bowman
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It is understandable that there are liabilities when buying any product whether corporate or made in a garage. I think what texas n them are saying is that they understand the liabilities when buying product from someone who spent alot of time trying to hand craft a part (much like the full length mag tube which is awesomely made). They'll take the risk onto themselves and if worse comes to worse they probably wouldn't sue knowing the risk they are taking. Also speaking of this gas piston it seems the danger to the user is relatively low, if he were to sell like special incendiary ammo made in his garage it'd be different. It's a small piece of metal that moves back and forth via gas. I think someone should do the research on what the worst case scenario really is if this piston fails.

 

But i also agree with h.bowman because regardless of your personal values... the law exists... it's there whether we like it or not and so do liabilities. Even if Texas, you wouldn't sue pana for a defective product chances are there is someone on this forum who would. i think h.bowman was just letting pana know that there is a very real consequence when doing business if he should fail to make the product up to snuff.

 

it's really up to the buyer and seller to make whatever contract and liabilities known. maybe pana can sell his product with a liability waiver to keep himself safe or something who knows. I don't think h.bowman was really trying to rain on everyone's parade he just does tend to think more about the legal aspect of things... though his attitude of I'm right, you're wrong does tend to rub people the wrong way. I'd suggest taking a less... abrasive approach.

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I'm protecting the person making parts

you just made my point!!!!!!!!!!! WHO ON GODS GREEN EARTH EVEN ASKED YOU TO GET INTO THEIR BUSINESS??????NO-ONE!! they did not ask you to protect them!!! this is exactly what im saying, YOU and your type getting into everyone elses business whether they asked for your help or not!!! just like our govnmnt is doing!!:rolleyes: another reason this country aint what it used to be. oh, and i didnt lie about anything there big guy!!;) and ill bet more members here will agree with me than you on this subject. you dont see any comments here agreeing with you do you??

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you just made my point!!!!!!!!!!! WHO ON GODS GREEN EARTH EVEN ASKED YOU TO GET INTO THEIR BUSINESS??????NO-ONE!! they did not ask you to protect them!!! this is exactly what im saying, YOU and your type getting into everyone elses business whether they asked for your help or not!!!

 

This is a public forum to discuss the issues people bring up. A potential issue with making parts is liability. It is a very relevant topic, and I'm quite confident that others here appreciate it. I think M1014 was talking about this the other day. Which is what got me thinking about it.

 

 

and ill bet more members here will agree with me than you on this subject.

 

Then they are just as stupid as you are. Maybe your fanboy friends will come along and cheerlead you on. I don't care. Just about 100% of what you have said is irrelevant. Congratulations.

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It is understandable that there are liabilities when buying any product whether corporate or made in a garage. I think what texas n them are saying is that they understand the liabilities when buying product from someone who spent alot of time trying to hand craft a part (much like the full length mag tube which is awesomely made). They'll take the risk onto themselves and if worse comes to worse they probably wouldn't sue knowing the risk they are taking. Also speaking of this gas piston it seems the danger to the user is relatively low, if he were to sell like special incendiary ammo made in his garage it'd be different. It's a small piece of metal that moves back and forth via gas. I think someone should do the research on what the worst case scenario really is if this piston fails.

 

But i also agree with h.bowman because regardless of your personal values... the law exists... it's there whether we like it or not and so do liabilities. Even if Texas, you wouldn't sue pana for a defective product chances are there is someone on this forum who would. i think h.bowman was just letting pana know that there is a very real consequence when doing business if he should fail to make the product up to snuff.

 

it's really up to the buyer and seller to make whatever contract and liabilities known. maybe pana can sell his product with a liability waiver to keep himself safe or something who knows. I don't think h.bowman was really trying to rain on everyone's parade he just does tend to think more about the legal aspect of things... though his attitude of I'm right, you're wrong does tend to rub people the wrong way. I'd suggest taking a less... abrasive approach.

 

Point taken on your final sentence. Its just difficult arguing with someone who has a difficulty providing a relevant argument, and who keeps repeating incorrect assumptions and applying them to me, as if I personally agree with, and even advocate, the theory behind everything I'm saying.

 

Also, you may sign a waiver, or you may agree not to sue, whatever.

 

But if the gun blows up and injures the person standing beside you, or you let someone else shoot your gun, the waiver is inapplicable. Same thing if you sell your gun to someone else and they are injured by it. Those people didn't agree to anything.

 

Insurance is the way to go. And to get the part beyond "experimental" before offering it for sale to the public.

Edited by h.bowman
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This is a public forum to discuss the issues people bring up. A potential issue with making parts is liability. It is a very relevant topic, and I'm quite confident that others here appreciate it. I think M1014 was talking about this the other day. Which is what got me thinking about it.

 

 

 

 

Then they are just as stupid as you are. Maybe your fanboy friends will come along and cheerlead you on. I don't care. Just about 100% of what you have said is irrelevant. Congratulations.

notice i didnt call you any names there lil buddy!!;) and ill admit you are right about the liabilty aspect, but why scare the little tinkerer is all i am trying to say!! again, it isnt your job to protect the world!! we are supposed to be accountable for our own actions!! hey Bowman, just out of curiousity, did you vote for that whole "hope and change" thingy?? cause if you did, it sure would explain some things about your way of thinking!!:D

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notice i didnt call you any names there lil buddy!!;) and ill admit you are right about the liabilty aspect, but why scare the little tinkerer is all i am trying to say!! again, it isnt your job to protect the world!! we are supposed to be accountable for our own actions!! hey Bowman, just out of curiousity, did you vote for that whole "hope and change" thingy?? cause if you did, it sure would explain some things about your way of thinking!!:D

 

skeeter, thanks for trying to rise above it. I'm sorry to you if I personally offended you by using the words "stupid," "irrelevant," etc.

 

To me, this is not personal towards you. I'm just stating facts.

 

We all come here for facts. Whether it is about the legality of 922r and how to conform lawfully under it, to how to tinker with our guns, or where to buy our gear - we all congregate here primarily for one reason only: to gather information.

 

We all offer different perspectives, we all know different things. So it is important for all of us to contribute what we know so we can all be more informed.

 

As for me personally, I'm the most conservative person you could ever meet. But again, your questioning me about my political persuasion further demonstrates that you haven't yet comprehended that I do not advocate what I am telling the forum about. I'm just telling the forum how it is. I have no personal desire to promote it as "how it should be." Frankly, I don't like it either, at least to some extent. People should be liable for things they put out there for others to use. The problem isn't the lawsuits where there is justification. The problem is the lawsuits where people misused things but still try to attach the liability onto someone else under the guise of products liability.

Edited by h.bowman
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I got mine from CarrierComp within a week right around Christmas.

 

Just curious how that is possible? I ordered my tube on 19DEC and Kip called about 2 days later to say he would be in NM for a month, but I should have my tube by end of Jan/early Feb. Still don't have today, even though my credit card was charged 3.5 weeks ago.

 

I know everyone on this forum loves Kip, but come on. I don't mind waiting as long as it's not on my nickel. Almost a month after being charged I still don't have my tube, Kip does not respond to email and his voice mail inbox is full and will not accept messages. Very unprofessional.

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Just curious how that is possible? I ordered my tube on 19DEC and Kip called about 2 days later to say he would be in NM for a month, but I should have my tube by end of Jan/early Feb. Still don't have today, even though my credit card was charged 3.5 weeks ago.

 

I know everyone on this forum loves Kip, but come on. I don't mind waiting as long as it's not on my nickel. Almost a month after being charged I still don't have my tube, Kip does not respond to email and his voice mail inbox is full and will not accept messages. Very unprofessional.

 

once you get it and install it, all those bad memories will go away. there will be only happiness as you look at your m4 with a nice new full length mag tube loaded up with 7+1 2 3/4 an inch shells.

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You can get the same smile on your face and within a week with the FFT TUBE and they return emails too.;)

 

once you get it and install it, all those bad memories will go away. there will be only happiness as you look at your m4 with a nice new full length mag tube loaded up with 7+1 2 3/4 an inch shells.
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