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I just bought a Benelli Argo El. That's the european version of the R1. I love this gun for it's awsome beauty and styling. I joined this forum to learn more about it ( I'm a bolt action guy). I have not fired it yet. When I learn to clean it I will dirty it. Now, must say If I had visited this forum before purchasing it I would not have done it. I have never read so much negative advertising in my life. My Gun Jambs, My Gun Has Corosion Problems, My Gun Doesn't Shoot straight. I don't mind someone pointing out a problem and offering advise like the person who started piston problems but the follow up crew- - -whow. I also belong to weatherbynation. Now there's A crew with pride. I am not trying to tick you all off or get booted out although I may not return. I just hope you boys can muster some Pride. (yes there are a few of you and thanks to you I still have hope this gun will work true). As a closer this site must have an administratore. you really should erase many of the non-constructive negative posts starting with mine and return faith in product. P.S. I have not checked out the shotgun forums so I restrict this post to the rifle forum.

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A couple of things to put all of that into context.

 

On average, more users come her because of problems than others do because they are happy with their products.

That gives the forums a disproportionate slant towards complaints. That's simple the nature of how these forums work.

In fact, it is exactly what brought me here years ago.

 

With regard to moderation, the people who run these forums have long held that it is our sandbox, and that they are not here to either promote good press nor to suppress the bad stuff.

 

The forums are not a conduit to customer service, and they shouldn't be.

They're just people discussing a common interest in the products - good, bad or indifferent.

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I came back to see how bad I got slaughtered. I was suprised to see so many people read my rant and I remained relatively unscathed. I want to stress that I did not mean to offend but I came away yesterday with a lot of misgivings and some paranoia related to my new rifle after reading the posts and was not in a good mood sorry to say. Today I am calmer and somewhat sorry for my rash post. What is it dad always said. count to ten boy and if yer still mad go for a walk. Anyway to answer the questions I, bought my gun at Wholesale Sports in Grande Prairie Albeta. Oh ya, did I mention I'm a Canuck. I got mine in 300 win mag and pretty as it is it will see field action.

I never even new benelli made a rifle (shotguns Ya.) and when I saw it I had to check it out. A week later I couldn't help myself. I had to go get it. I then decided I needed to learn about my purchase. I own a rem. 700 in 25-06, wby .257 mag, rem 700 in 30-06, squires bingham .22hmr and a Churhill monarch over under in 12 guage. This is my first mechanical.

Well anyway I'm not writing a book here so take er easy boys.

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We stayed at a lovely B&B in Grand P. on our driving trip to Alaska last summer, out in the rural area about 4 miles east of the town, can't recall the name! I have a good friend in Medicine Hat and our neighbors are from Edmonton. I am Indiana USA.

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I wouldn't get too excited about potential problems until you try your rifle. Benelli made some changes over the initial model that seems to have improved things. My son and i have about 500 rounds through our two identical Benelli R1's (30-06 carbines, wood stocks) and have had zero problems. The rifles return to exact POA after each and every strip and reassembly (neither one has required so much as 1 click adjustment on the scope since initial sight in). They are both MOA rifles w/ Hornady 150 grn SST's and they have both taken numerous wild pigs and deer w/ great results! They are relatively light weight and have little recoil. Neither rifle has ever experienced a jam or feed malfunction of any sort.

 

The local dealer where I purchased my rifle is a small dealer w/ lots of repeat customers. He told me he has sold 6 other R1's besides my two and his other customers have had the same experience - no problems, good acuracy, returns to zero. As already mentioned not many folks take the time to post when there are no problems.

 

David

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  • 2 weeks later...

A couple of weeks ago I purchased a Benelli R1 in 300 Win Mag with the Confortech stock. I bought it at the Toronto Sportsmen Show because i got a great deal that I could not pass and I already had a Benelli Super Sport Shotgun and it is by far the best gun that I ever had so I thought that I couldn't go wrong with the R1. (the deal was that it had no taxes, but it is still an expensive rifle)

 

Then surfing in the internet I came across this forum and my jaw dropped after reading about all the problems that seem to plague this rifle relating accuracy and its gas system. I was starting to think that I had made a huge mistake

 

I was truly disappointed especially after reading the brochures where it promised decent accuracy due to the cryogenically treated barrels and reliability from the "Self Cleaning" gas system derived from de Benelli M4 that in tests fired thousands of rounds without a malfunction. How was it possible that in some instances some owners were complaining about lack of accuracy and that the R1 would jam after shooting a mere 10 rounds or that the only way to get it to be reliable was to clean the heck out of it every time it went to the range and even then they had no assurances of it not malfunctioning. After all it was supposed to be a Self Cleaning gas system.

 

Finally the moment of truth came and I went to the range last Sunday with my kids. We took a Benelli Super Sport and Remington 870 to shoot some trap, a SKS with a few hundred rounds to have loads of fun and we left the R1 for last so It would not spoil our day.

 

Finally at the end of the day the R1 was on the bench and ready to be shot. The target was set to 50 yards where I boresigthed it with one of those NC Star Laser boresighter that looks like a round of 300 WM. Sure enough the first shot was in the target. This was the fouling shot so I was surprised to see the second shot go into the same hole as the first. So did the third. I then adjusted the sights and fired three more. Again they went into the same hole in a nice clover shape. Made the final adjustments and again one hole group.

 

It is hard to describe how I felt at this moment. With all the negative anticipation my happiness was so that I can only described as being that of a dog that had two tails.

 

I then went to the 100 yard range and fired the rest of the box (by the way, this was the cheapest ammo that I could find, Remington Corelokt 150gr). All the groups where between 1,1/4" and 2". This with an out of the box rifle and the cheapest ammo I could find in Bass Pro Shop and on top of that I did not even have a decent rest.

 

Once home I took the R1 apart and found out that it was dirty but it was not so fouled that it would jam. However, I do believe that junk will pile up quite fast after three or four boxed of ammo. In fact, my rifle's manual had a few loose pages that were evidently added at the last moment that talks about how important it is to clean the gas collector since some types of ammo tend to leave significant deposit of combustion residue build up. So much for the Self Cleaning feature and since it does not mention which type of ammo is the one that gunks up the gun, it could then be anyone, therefore, you better clean your gun often. Benelli should probably remove the " Self Cleaning Gas System" claim from their brochure in order to avoid misleading customers.

 

Finally, I think that this rifle has an outstanding potential. With better ammo and or with reloads I have the feeling I will turn this into a 1/2" tack driver which is uncommon in a semi auto. Since it has a 1:11 twist I believe it will favour the lighter bullets so I will be trying anything up to the 165 and 168 grains bullets This later ones should be good enough for hunting any game here in Canada

 

For all of those who have had problems with this rifle I would suggest that you hammer Benelli for a solution. This is an expensive, high end rifle and it is advertised as such. If by chance some might have gotten a lemon you should not get stuck with it. You should get a rifle that lives up to the expectations that Benelli has created for itself.

 

I have the feeling that this rifle and I will become very good hunting buddies

 

Carlos

 

PS: the only thing I deslike about this rifle, is the trigger, I would expect somenting better, like the one in my Benelli Super Sport. My surplus Simonv has a better trigger that the R1.

Edited by elpocho
correcting typos
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I just bought a Benelli Argo El. That's the european version of the R1. I love this gun for it's awsome beauty and styling. I joined this forum to learn more about it ( I'm a bolt action guy). I have not fired it yet. When I learn to clean it I will dirty it. Now, must say If I had visited this forum before purchasing it I would not have done it. I have never read so much negative advertising in my life. My Gun Jambs, My Gun Has Corosion Problems, My Gun Doesn't Shoot straight. I don't mind someone pointing out a problem and offering advise like the person who started piston problems but the follow up crew- - -whow. I also belong to weatherbynation. Now there's A crew with pride. I am not trying to tick you all off or get booted out although I may not return. I just hope you boys can muster some Pride. (yes there are a few of you and thanks to you I still have hope this gun will work true). As a closer this site must have an administratore. you really should erase many of the non-constructive negative posts starting with mine and return faith in product. P.S. I have not checked out the shotgun forums so I restrict this post to the rifle forum.

 

For some reason i find it hard to imagine you have not visited the shotgun forum becasue all your issues mentioned with complaints were in the shotgun forums? I would stick with the bolts as i have also done!

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Finally, I think that this rifle has an outstanding potential. With better ammo and or with reloads I have the feeling I will turn this into a 1/2" tack driver which is uncommon in a semi auto.

 

I don't believe you will get a consistent 1/2" out of R1 fed from the magazine.

 

For all of those who have had problems with this rifle I would suggest that you hammer Benelli for a solution. This is an expensive, high end rifle and it is advertised as such.

 

Hammer Benelli? How exactly? There are two problems:

 

1. if you don't clean the piston after every session it falls apart. Literally. Benelli will replace disintegrated piston under warranty. But first you have to keep shooting and not cleaning like a maniac knowing that your rifle will malfunction soon and you don't know exactly when. That may be ok for a range only rifle, but not something you take out to the bush.

 

2. Accuracy is absent. Keeping all 4 factory rounds fired from the magazine on the same sheet of paper at 100m is not a given. Benelli USA said since you are from Canada call the guys in Canada. The guys in Canada said "sure, send it to us we will shoot it". When I described the alternating pattern from the magazine both reps said they never heard of it. I know of at least two other 30-06 R1s that have the same behavior. So what do you suggest I do- send it to them so they can shoot it?

 

If by chance some might have gotten a lemon you should not get stuck with it. You should get a rifle that lives up to the expectations that Benelli has created for itself.

 

They all are lemons by design. Even if you get a magical R1 that shoots all rounds into one hole you still have the piston problem. And that affects each and every R1. The alloy it is made of seems to be applied there to reduce recoiling mass. But it does not hold up without excessive cleaning.

 

So congratulations, you've got a lemon.

 

The one solution I know of for the piston problem is to ignore the cleaning after each session, buy a few spare pistons and just replace them once in a while- like once or twice a year to be sure they won't fall apart. The problem is that you can buy another rifle for the price of a couple or three pistons. That crappy alloy is either overpriced or expensive.

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Finally at the end of the day the R1 was on the bench and ready to be shot. The target was set to 50 yards where I boresigthed it with one of those NC Star Laser boresighter that looks like a round of 300 WM. Sure enough the first shot was in the target. This was the fouling shot so I was surprised to see the second shot go into the same hole as the first. So did the third. I then adjusted the sights and fired three more. Again they went into the same hole in a nice clover shape. Made the final adjustments and again one hole group.

 

It is hard to describe how I felt at this moment. With all the negative anticipation my happiness was so that I can only described as being that of a dog that had two tails.

 

I then went to the 100 yard range and fired the rest of the box (by the way, this was the cheapest ammo that I could find, Remington Corelokt 150gr). All the groups where between 1,1/4" and 2".

 

I am having trouble comprehending what you written here. Help me out:

 

You shot three groups at 50 and they were consistent one hole groups. Clover shape with 300 WM means at most .308" group size, right? That's a very consistent result to have three groups like that and no groups that are not like that.

 

Then the same shooter fired at least three other groups with the same ammo at 100 and your groups opened up between 4 and 6.5 times.

 

Why did your groups opened up so much when moving from 50 to 100?

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OLGA . .You mention you called the (Benelli) guys in Canada. I too am a Canadian and tried to find a rep. in Canada. I was directed to Stoeger in Ontario by the Benelli armi web site Italy. I have not contacted them yet and wonder if this is the reps. you refered to or is there a better option? I know some of these web sites have not been upgraded in some time. Would apreciate some feed back thanks.

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OLGA,

 

After reading both your posts I realized two things”

 

1. The nice clover shaped groups at 50 yards were fired single shot with an empty mag.

 

2. When I moved to the 100 yard range the first two groups were fired with two rounds in the mag and gave me groups of “aprox” 1 ½” and I say aprox since I did not use a caliper to measure them, I just eyed them using the cuadricula of the target. The two groups strung vertically. The last group was fired with a full mag (4 shot group) and this was aprox 2” stringing vertically.

 

At that time I did not consider the opening of the groups as being related to having rounds in the mag. After being so please with the initial groups I was kind of relieved about the accuracy issue since this was my main concern, therefore I might not have been so careful and I didn’t even take the trouble to get a better rest or at least as good as the ones in the 50 yard range. The trigger didn’t help either. At that moment, with factory loads, dissipated concentration and chunks of wood covered with carpeting that bounced around after every shot, 2” seemed quite acceptable for a semiauto.

 

I went back home with a big smile and the certainty that with handloads and proper rests I could reduce those groups considerably. This is my first semiauto but not my first rifle and I know for a fact that with proper handloads and after experimenting with different powders and bullets, almost anything can be made to shoot moa. My great fear was, as you mentioned, that it would not keep the groups on paper.

 

I’m a hunter, not a target shooter so 2” groups at 100 yards are quite OK weather it is a bolt action or a semiauto to the point that handloads are not a must for a hunt. However this is my hobby and after I’m done with the three boxes of factory ammo that I purchased only for the brass, I will begin handloading as always.

 

Regarding the piston disintegrating, you have brought a big concern to my mind. For the moment the only thing I can say is that it seems quite obvious that this is not a self cleaning gas system and although it was not hard to clean I wonder what would happen if I fire 50 round in one session which is what I usually fire when experimenting with handloads. I guess we’ll have to try and see.

 

Since I have not had any problems so far I don’t know haw easy or difficult it is to deal with Benelli, Here in Canada you have to go through Stoeger, although in the Benelli USA page it clearly says that all repairs for Canadian customers are performed in the USA and the guns have to be sent to them.

 

And I agree with you, a rifle that is not reliable is not OK for hunting, it might put you in a very delicate, dangerous or life threatening situation and this is not acceptable to the point of liability, especially if there is a known design flaw with the gas piston yet it is continued to be advertised as a self cleaning and reliable system.

 

I don’t know how it could be done, but it would be great to somehow document as many rifles as possible that have had the piston issue. Maybe asking everyone that we know that has had this problem be invited to post in this forum. And this would be my legal argument if it ever becomes a problem with my rifle. Believe me, if this happens to my R1 I will hammer them in Canada the USA and Italy.

 

It is too soon to ascertain if my R1 is a lemon yet, but since I like shooting quite a bit and if this is a lemon it won’t be long to show.

 

My next trip to the range I will try again grouping with and without rounds in the mag and will post the results. I will also keep an eye on the gas piston and inform if there are any developments.

 

So far so good and I cross my fingers and touch on wood.

 

Let’s keep in touch regarding this.

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OLGA . .You mention you called the (Benelli) guys in Canada. I too am a Canadian and tried to find a rep. in Canada. I was directed to Stoeger in Ontario by the Benelli armi web site Italy. I have not contacted them yet and wonder if this is the reps. you refered to or is there a better option? I know some of these web sites have not been upgraded in some time. Would apreciate some feed back thanks.

 

Yes, Stoeger.

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OLGA,

 

After reading both your posts I realized two things”

 

1. The nice clover shaped groups at 50 yards were fired single shot with an empty mag.

 

Right, that explains it, you shot a single shot rifle :)

 

Try to feed manually with empty mag or without mag and then try to feed a full mag and compare the results. Also when you shoot from the mag mark your shots in the order they were shot from the mag and then compare several groups to see if there is a pattern in how the sequence works. Do it at least at 100 yards.

 

2” seemed quite acceptable for a semiauto.

 

Yes, I believe R1 can be handloaded to be a reasonably consistent 2" gun. Have not done it myself yet though.

 

Regarding the piston disintegrating, you have brought a big concern to my mind. For the moment the only thing I can say is that it seems quite obvious that this is not a self cleaning gas system and although it was not hard to clean I wonder what would happen if I fire 50 round in one session which is what I usually fire when experimenting with handloads. I guess we’ll have to try and see.

 

Nothing will go wrong after 50 rounds or 200 rounds in one session. The issue is corrosion. And corrosion takes time. If you fire and clean your bore for a few sessions but do not take apart the piston assembly (my manual says the piston assembly does not need any cleaning) and then leave it for a while it will start to disintegrate. Eventually pieces of the piston will brake off and the rifle will no longer cycle. If you take apart the piston assembly after every session and clean it you'll be fine (other than the time wasted on babying your piston).

 

My next trip to the range I will try again grouping with and without rounds in the mag and will post the results. I will also keep an eye on the gas piston and inform if there are any developments.

 

So far so good and I cross my fingers and touch on wood.

 

Let’s keep in touch regarding this.

 

Sure, let us know what your R1 can do.

 

By the way, other than these two problems (excessive cleaning requirements and lack of accuracy) R1 is an amazing rifle and fun to shoot. Adjustable stock is very nice, and the whole thing looks cool. Five year warranty is good too. Trigger could be better, but semiauto trigger should not be compared to a bolt or single shot trigger.

 

If Benelli came out with a piston made of corrosion-resistant material and replaced all pistons out there it would fix the biggest problem of all. Or at least if they made cheap replacement pistons available so that we could buy a few spares and treat them as consumables.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just thought I'd comment on my Argo El now that I have put some rounds through the tube...:D:cool:...Yeah! That should do...No scope on it yet but grouping pretty darn good for open sights and I have not used open sights since I was a kid with a .22 plinker.

Too soon to comment on long term reliabilty but for sheer fun it is fantastic. Byfernow

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  • 3 weeks later...

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