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Benelli M4 What is the Story?


gunsforfun

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Originally posted by gunsforfun:

What is with all the secrecy on this issue? Are you offering the M4 with a collapsible stock to civilians or not? :mad:

Benelli is offering the M4 to civilians, model# 11707. They are also offering the collapsable stock for the M4. The 11707 is the only M4 model this will work with. The stock is sold as an accessory for the firearm, model# 70085.
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  • 2 weeks later...

I just found out from Benelli that I can not retro fit my M1014 Limited Edition with a collapsible stock. Supposedly the current steel tube can not be removed from the receiver and replaced with one that has the notches. I am sure Benelli has the gunsmithing capabilities to make this modification but seem unwilling to do so. I am now stuck with a $1400 shotgun that can never have a collapsible stock. I will need to purchase another rifle at $1400 just so I can have a collapsible stock. I just can't believe Benelli would do this to their customers especially those buying the limited edition models. This shotgun was meant to have a collapsible stock from the start and now that the AWB is gone Benelli should make it possible for their customers.

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I am starting a Benelli boycott through the local shooting clubs in Missouri and I suggest other M1014 owners do the same. This is disgraceful behavior on the part of Benelli especially when it comes to such an expensive rifle. They could have come up with a solution to make this conversion possible. At the very least they should offer to exchange the limited edition for a M4 model with a collapsible stock.

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Please understand, The M1014 was made as a Limited Edition gun that was not designed to have a collapsable stock. The only model that Benelli USA has that is designed to take the collapsable stock is the M4 model# 11707. To make any changes for each customer would be considered customizing. Benelli USA is not authorized to do any custom work. This is also the reason for the stock being sold as an accessory. For Benelli USA to install the collapsable on a gun that came from the factory without, would also be custom work. The following is a post to the factory's contact page if you would like to contact them even to make a suggestion, you can do so here:

 

http://www.benelli.it/Contatti/

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I disagree. If that were so then they should have put the non-collapsibe stock on with the non-collapsible recoil spring tube.

 

The M1014 (11701) is a M4 (11707) except for the barrel (choke tubes), flag engraving, the collapsible recoil spring tube and the non-collapsible stock. The M1014 has a collapsible stock with a non-collapsible recoil spring tube. I do not believe that either recoil spring tube attaches to the their receiver assembly differently, until proven otherwise.

 

My Benelli 2003 catalog treats both the M1014 and M4s' stocks with the same references.

 

The restriction on the release of even the non-collapsible recoil spring tube (049J) to M1014 owners makes this whole issue smell fishy. To say that these guns are that different is spiltting a hair at best.

 

I have asked Customer Service to read their own forum. I highly suggest that they heed our request before the next monthss issues of the gun magizines hit the racks.

 

PS. Any pictures out there of the rear of the receiver assembly for both guns??

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It seems like Benelli is deliberately not wanting to provide the parts necessary to make the stock on the M1014 collapsible and I am wondering if it has to do with them having a US military contract. Colt was known for doing or not doing things with their rifles to stay politically correct because of their large government contracts they held. Now Colt is paying dearly for their behavior by having consumers boycott their products and switch to Bushmaster and Armalite. Also they won’t be getting the new government contract for the replacement of the M4. In fact they are now suing both Heckler & Koch and Bushmaster for patent infringements. If Benelli doesn’t want to end up like Colt they better heed the complaints of their customers and remedy the problem.

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Originally posted by BenelliGirl:

Please understand, The M1014 was made as a Limited Edition gun that was not designed to have a collapsable stock. The only model that Benelli USA has that is designed to take the collapsable stock is the M4 model# 11707. To make any changes for each customer would be considered customizing. Benelli USA is not authorized to do any custom work. This is also the reason for the stock being sold as an accessory. For Benelli USA to install the collapsable on a gun that came from the factory without, would also be custom work. The following is a post to the factory's contact page if you would like to contact them even to make a suggestion, you can do so here:

 

http://www.benelli.it/Contatti/

Since you're the "in" at BenelliUSA, just tell them we want the recoil spring tube for the Law Enforcement version of the M4 made available.

 

We don't want Benelli to install it; we just want to be able to purchase it.

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Benelli has perpetrated a great fraud on their M1014 customers. I purchased the rifle at a well know national sporting goods chain and was assured that I was buying a limited edition military version and the stock could be easily replace with a collapsible one after the AWB sunset. If this is in fact a true military version the buffer tube should be replaceable. I can not believe the rifle was designed is such a way that in order to replace the buffer tube you need to replace the whole receiver.

 

Benelli should be willing to do the following for their M1014 customers.

 

1. Make a buffer tube available for the M1014 that will allow for a collapsible stock.

2. If there is some reason the original tube can not be replaced then provide the services at a reasonable cost to convert the original buffer tube. This should be the equivalent of sending in a rifle for a warranty repair.

3. Offer to swap out the M1014 receiver or entire rifle for an equivalent model which allows for a collapsible stock.

 

 

There are 2500 Limited Edition M4 owners and suggest if Benelli remains unresponsive on this issue that we consider a class action lawsuit. If the M1014 rifle was not a true military version and had limitations then there should have been some type of disclaimer stating that the buffer tube could not be replaced and this rifle could never revert to a pre-ban/LEO model. I have not owned a post-ban model that could not be converted to a pre-ban model with the right parts.

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slu_med,

There IS not going to be a class action suit, so just drop it. And I doubt there are many Benelli fans that will boycott them. I won't. You should also know it's not a rifle, it's a SHOTGUN. Yes it was expensive. I apparently paid more than you, but that's not the point.

 

The point is we should be lobbying Benelli to sell the appropriate recoil spring tube.

 

If they won't then perhaps some machinists will. I have a lead on two.

 

Considering Benelli already produces the part, it's easy money for them to make some extra and sell them for an unseemly profit.

 

[ 09-30-2004, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: dport ]

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Since one of the members had their sensibilities upset because rifle was used instead of shotgun I will make sure in the future I don’t hastily post without a thorough proof reading first. What is wrong with you people? The only thing that grabs you about my posting is incorrect syntax. Plain and simply Benelli needs to do the right thing and make a collapsible stock on the M1014 possible. It was marketed as a true military rifle and the consumer was lead to believe that the disabled stock was reversible. I can’t even get a straight answer as to whether a new buffer tube would resolve the problem or the entire receiver needs to be replaced. I suggested a class action lawsuit because there was an implied contract as to the capabilities of this “SHOTGUN” and no disclaimers were made stating that this was not identical to the military model and the stock could never be made to collapse. If some members would rather be sheep and not consider their legal options that is their choice but other mislead M1014 owners should have a right to collectively fight back if Benelli chooses not to take action on this issue.

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I would bet money that Benelli was forced to use a different recoil spring tube by the BATF to make the stock not easily convertable.

I'm not sure how difficult it is to remove the recoil spring tube from the receiver. It appears to be a threaded tube by the looks of it in the parts diagram.

Call John Edwards after Nov. 2nd, he should be free to accept your class action lawsuit. Bring grease.

-Steve

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Originally posted by slu_med:

Since one of the members had their sensibilities upset because rifle was used instead of shotgun I will make sure in the future I don’t hastily post without a thorough proof reading first. What is wrong with you people? The only thing that grabs you about my posting is incorrect syntax.

It's not the only thing, but a rifle is a rifle and a shotgun is a shotgun. It makes one appear to be a troll if one doesn't even correctly portray the weapon.

 

 

Originally posted by slu_med:

Plain and simply Benelli needs to do the right thing and make a collapsible stock on the M1014 possible. It was marketed as a true military rifle and the consumer was lead to believe that the disabled stock was reversible. I can’t even get a straight answer as to whether a new buffer tube would resolve the problem or the entire receiver needs to be replaced.

You can make the gun, as is, have a two position stock. You can get a good machinist to mill the buffer tube to make it a multiple position stock. You can even modify the current buttstock without spending close to two hundred dollars on a new one.

Don't know about the reciever. Looking at it and the drawings, it appears just to be the tube. I haven't taken it apart; although, I have been tempted.

 

 

Originally posted by slu_med:

I suggested a class action lawsuit because there was an implied contract as to the capabilities of this “SHOTGUN” and no disclaimers were made stating that this was not identical to the military model and the stock could never be made to collapse.

That is so much BS as to not even be funny. Benelli USA did no such thing. If your gun dealer did then your dispute is there. Benelli's site clearly states the M1014 comes with a faux collapsing stock and a faux magazine extension. Check out this link

It clearly states the M1014 comes with a NON-collapsing stock. No where in any Benelli literature was there any indication the M1014 could be converted to have a collapsable stock. If you assumed so, well you know what they say about assuming. It's the mother of all f-ups.

 

 

Originally posted by slu_med:

If some members would rather be sheep and not consider their legal options that is their choice but other mislead M1014 owners should have a right to collectively fight back if Benelli chooses not to take action on this issue.

If you want to alienate Benelli from the American shooting public then a lawsuit is just the tool. Companies like H&K and Colt are already nervous about being sued, so they restrict sales. Can you imagine if they had to worry about being sued not only by gun grabbers, but gun owners too? That's just stupidity at its finest.

 

As for the sheep comment, :mad: , it seems that I wasn't the one easily mislead. I did read the literature and didn't assume anything, nor did I listen to the BS spouted by some dealer. I also managed to figure out several alternatives myself. If you just look at the shotgun and the stock you can tell why it wouldn't be a multi-position stock without a new recoil tube.

 

You need to calm down, ask Benelli nicely to sell the recoil spring tube, and enjoy the best STL Cardinals team in 22 years.

 

[ 10-01-2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: dport ]

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The M1014 is portrayed as a military version in the marketing literature by Benelli It is made out to be a collectible version of the same shotgun used by the US marines. Yes I knew the stock was fixed to comply with AWB but since the shotgun is supposedly the military version the buffer tube would be replaceable and a collapsible stock could be added at a later time. Further I do have the magazine extension which allows for 7 rounds in the tube and one in the chamber. As I mentioned in earlier posts I can not get a straight answer as to whether the buffer tube can be replaced and Benelli is deliberately withholding the parts or the tube can not be removed from the receiver. If the later is true than this would not be a military version and should have not been marketed as such thus constituting fraud on the part of Benelli.

 

I strongly believe in immunity from lawsuits for gun manufactures when a mentally ill individual goes on a killing rampage as these types of incidents are beyond the control of the arms manufactures. Misrepresentation and fraud in the sale of the firearms is a completely different story.

 

 

The M1014 Limited Edition was misrepresented as a military version and we were defrauded by the Benelli Corporation and the dealers that sold us the shotguns. If this shotgun truly was a military version the buffer tube could be replace with one that allowed for a collapsible stock. Resale value of the M1014 is devalued because everyone now knows that it can never be fitted with a collapsible stock. And as far as a collectable you will just have to write it off as a loss because no one will care if it is a limited addition and has an American flag engraved on the receiver because it can’t be fitted with a collapsible stock.

 

I suggest the following action plan for all M1014 Limited Edition owners.

 

1) Write to Benelli and make it clear you feel you were defrauded and demand that they retrofit or replace the shotgun.

 

2) M1014 owners should make multiple postings about their dissatisfaction with Benelli in every firearm forum (i.e. AR15.com, glocktalk.com, etc.) they visit in cyberspace.

 

3) All computer savvy M1014 owners should start a Benelli dissatisfaction website and register it with all well known search engines such as Google. That way when potential Benelli purchasers look for product buying advice our websites will show up with our complaints.

 

4) Express you dissatisfaction with Benelli products at all gun club meetings you attend. Put flyers up on the bulletin boards at the shooting ranges you attend with buyer beware warnings when it comes to Benelli products.

 

5) Write to all major firearms publications and the NRA and tell them how you were defrauded.

 

6) If you work at a large hospital or corporation use your organizational wide email lists to tell others about Benelli’s despicable behavior.

 

7) Consider participating in a class action lawsuit against Benelli. We are 2500 plaintiffs strong and most juries are sympathetic to the plaintiff and not the corporate defendant.

 

It is time Benelli is made to do the corporate perp walk for knowingly and willfully deceiving the consumers that bought the M1014 Limited Edition. Benelli M1014 Limited Edition owners now know that the M in the M1014 stands for misrepresentation and not military.

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Originally posted by slu_med:

The M1014 is portrayed as a military version in the marketing literature by Benelli It is made out to be a collectible version of the same shotgun used by the US marines. Yes I knew the stock was fixed to comply with AWB but since the shotgun is supposedly the military version the buffer tube would be replaceable and a collapsible stock could be added at a later time. Further I do have the magazine extension which allows for 7 rounds in the tube and one in the chamber. As I mentioned in earlier posts I can not get a straight answer as to whether the buffer tube can be replaced and Benelli is deliberately withholding the parts or the tube can not be removed from the receiver. If the later is true than this would not be a military version and should have not been marketed as such thus constituting fraud on the part of Benelli.

 

I strongly believe in immunity from lawsuits for gun manufactures when a mentally ill individual goes on a killing rampage as these types of incidents are beyond the control of the arms manufactures. Misrepresentation and fraud in the sale of the firearms is a completely different story.

 

 

The M1014 Limited Edition was misrepresented as a military version and we were defrauded by the Benelli Corporation and the dealers that sold us the shotguns. If this shotgun truly was a military version the buffer tube could be replace with one that allowed for a collapsible stock. Resale value of the M1014 is devalued because everyone now knows that it can never be fitted with a collapsible stock. And as far as a collectable you will just have to write it off as a loss because no one will care if it is a limited addition and has an American flag engraved on the receiver because it can’t be fitted with a collapsible stock.

 

I suggest the following action plan for all M1014 Limited Edition owners.

 

1) Write to Benelli and make it clear you feel you were defrauded and demand that they retrofit or replace the shotgun.

 

2) M1014 owners should make multiple postings about their dissatisfaction with Benelli in every firearm forum (i.e. AR15.com, glocktalk.com, etc.) they visit in cyberspace.

 

3) All computer savvy M1014 owners should start a Benelli dissatisfaction website and register it with all well known search engines such as Google. That way when potential Benelli purchasers look for product buying advice our websites will show up with our complaints.

 

4) Express you dissatisfaction with Benelli products at all gun club meetings you attend. Put flyers up on the bulletin boards at the shooting ranges you attend with buyer beware warnings when it comes to Benelli products.

 

5) Write to all major firearms publications and the NRA and tell them how you were defrauded.

 

6) If you work at a large hospital or corporation use your organizational wide email lists to tell others about Benelli’s despicable behavior.

 

7) Consider participating in a class action lawsuit against Benelli. We are 2500 plaintiffs strong and most juries are sympathetic to the plaintiff and not the corporate defendant.

 

It is time Benelli is made to do the corporate perp walk for knowingly and willfully deceiving the consumers that bought the M1014 Limited Edition. Benelli M1014 Limited Edition owners now know that the M in the M1014 stands for misrepresentation and not military.

It was never misrepresented. It was Limited Edition as a tribute to the military. Do you think the USMC guns have flags on the receiver? Or are numbered 1 thru 2500?

 

Even with the AWB dead there was is debate about whether or not an M4 with collapsable stock would meet the import criteria. I still await an official ruling from the BATF, so this might be all for nothing.

 

We could do everthing you suggest, or we could do something sensible like:

- Ask Benelli to sell the proper part. Given Benelli Girl's post it's not a Benelli USA call, it's a Benelli corporate call in IT. Perhaps they will respond.

-Ask machinists that specialize in weapons if they can make the proper tube. I know of several on AR-15.com that could probably do it.

-Ask someone like Kurt of KKF to modify the existing tube.

 

Considering there are only 2500 M1014s in circulation, figure some are still on shelves or being resold, andother owners are collectors and won't modify the guns, and still other owners don't care about the collapsing feature, there probably isn't a huge demand for these tubes. Nor is there a huge ground swell for a class action suit.

 

Even if we count in the M4(non-LE) version in the mix, the price of the M4(non-LE) vs the M1 and people waiting for the end of the AWB, and the BATF ruling, probably have kept sales down until now. I just don't see a big market for Benelli to sell the tubes. Benelli is a business if the market isn't worth their while they are not going to sell the part.

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