TKTM Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) I test fit my new FFT forend on my M4 and found some differences in fit from the original. Visually the FFT forend looks good, but there is a difference in fit that might annoy some. The design/fit of the tongue and groove joint which runs along the bottom of the forend haves is not nearly as good as the factory forend. The tongue on the FFT is narrower than the one on the factory forend, this allows for movement between the halves. Also, the fit between the tongue and groove is not flush when loosely pressed together. When installed on the rifle the fit visually looks acceptable and it feels okay when squeezing the grips together. However if you grab the forend in a manner that loads the tounge/grove perpendicular to the joint, the foreend halves will move slightly passed each other (perpendicular to the barrel) and squeak. On the factory forend, the tongue and groove are firmly locked together and won't move or squeak in this manner. I have not shot it yet to see if it makes a difference there. But I when I grabbed the M4 to put it in the safe, I could definitely hear and feel the forend haves squeaking and moving. Given that the tongue is too narrow for the groove, it is unlikely that it can be trimmed to fit better. But it might be possible to true up the fit between the tongue and grove and then bond them together to make a one piece unit. edited to add link to video of issue Edited February 27, 2011 by TKTM edited to add video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Good review. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Fab Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I have a few questions for you as I have one of these in transit. First, have you contacted Todd at FFT and shared these concerns with him. Having spoken with him on a few occasions, I know he would be interested to find out that one of these units might be problematic. Second, do you have any photos you could share that show the problems you are having? I know that Benelli restricts forum privileges until you have a certain number of posts but there are ways around that. Pictures would go a long way in terms of helping to understand the issues you are having. Third, how old is your M4 and what kind of condition is it in? I ask because if it's older or has been banged around a bit, there is a good possibility that the tolerances may be indeed off a bit and may account for the issues you describe. As I said earlier, your best bet would be to contact Todd at FFT and describe what is happening. I would think that you might get better satisfaction from doing that as opposed to writing what I consider to be an incomplete review on an internet forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKTM Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 I have a few questions for you as I have one of these in transit. First, have you contacted Todd at FFT and shared these concerns with him. Having spoken with him on a few occasions, I know he would be interested to find out that one of these units might be problematic. Second, do you have any photos you could share that show the problems you are having? I know that Benelli restricts forum privileges until you have a certain number of posts but there are ways around that. Pictures would go a long way in terms of helping to understand the issues you are having. Third, how old is your M4 and what kind of condition is it in? I ask because if it's older or has been banged around a bit, there is a good possibility that the tolerances may be indeed off a bit and may account for the issues you describe. As I said earlier, your best bet would be to contact Todd at FFT and describe what is happening. I would think that you might get better satisfaction from doing that as opposed to writing what I consider to be an incomplete review on an internet forum. (1st question) I haven't spoken with anyone at FFT; I literally fit it up and tested the fit a few minutes before I posted. (2nd question) I didn't delay the post to take video or photos. The description is good enough. (3rd question) has nothing to do with the gun (new). The retaining flanges hold the forend tight. There appears to be no axial movement or perpendicular movement at the the flanges. The movement is in the middle of the forends, perpendicular to the barrel. The purpose of the tongue and grove is to prevent that movement. Its a complete review, has all the factual information required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Fab Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) (1st question) I haven't spoken with anyone at FFT; I literally fit it up and tested the fit a few minutes before I posted. (2nd question) I didn't delay the post to take video or photos. The description is good enough. (3rd question) has nothing to do with the gun (new). The retaining flanges hold the forend tight. There appears to be no axial movement or perpendicular movement at the the flanges. The movement is in the middle of the forends, perpendicular to the barrel. The purpose of the tongue and grove is to prevent that movement. Its a complete review, has all the factual information required. Well then it seems like from your response you were more interested in starting a thread telling us the problems you had rather than checking in with FFT first. Maybe that's just the way you roll but I would have taken the step to contact them before getting on-line and writing up a review. That's just the way I roll. Have a nice day. Edited February 26, 2011 by KB Fab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmaxfan Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Please post after you speak to FFT. I just received mine, but will not install until others including FFT chime in on this matter. It should fit just like the Benelli's unit for $50.00 imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKTM Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Well then it seems like from your response you were more interested in starting a thread telling us the problems you had rather than checking in with FFT first. Maybe that's just the way you roll but I would have taken the step to contact them before getting on-line and writing up a review. That's just the way I roll. Have a nice day. Why would one delay the sharing of information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKTM Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Please post after you speak to FFT. I just received mine, but will not install until others including FFT chime in on this matter. It should fit just like the Benelli's unit for $50.00 imho. Its not an exact copy; and there are probably good reasons for that. If you look at the original and FFL's unit you can see that the tongue and grove are a slightly different design. If you don't want to install it yet just hold both parts in your hand and put the tongue and groove together. Do they fit together flush? Does the tongue wiggle or move (non axially) inside the groove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoAtrox Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) I just installed mine. I agree that it isn't as good as the OEM forearm, but my set is rock-solid with no movement whatsoever. Not because the tongue and groove are any different, but because one half (the left, I think) is slightly bowed. When pressing one end of the forearm halves together, the gap on the other end spreads more than two milimeters. Still, this gap can be squeezed together (with one hand) when installed, and the caps hold both ends together tightly. This slight bow will probably work out a little bit as it sits assembled at room temperature (it was freezing in transit) and the tension it causes is probably the reason why it fits so well when fully assembled. Edited February 26, 2011 by LeoAtrox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKTM Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 I just installed mine. I agree that it isn't as good as the OEM forearm, but my set is rock-solid with no movement whatsoever. Not because the tongue and groove are any different, but because one half (the left, I think) is slightly bowed. When pressing one end of the forearm halves together, the gap on the other end spreads more than two milimeters. Still, this gap can be squeezed together (with one hand) when installed, and the caps hold both ends together tightly. This slight bow will probably work out a little bit as it sits assembled at room temperature (it was freezing in transit) and the tension it causes is probably the reason why it fits so well when fully assembled. put your palm on the barrel and place your fingers on one of the halves right at boundary between the two halves. Now make a kung-fu grip and see if you can feel one half move past the other (you'll hear a squeak too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Shotgun Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I was afraid that an issue like this might arise, and my instincts proved to be true. This is why I decided to hold off on purchasing the FFT forend until the bugs and kinks are worked out in the first couple of batches. Hopefully the manufacturer will correct this soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c350z Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Got mine today. Installed them. They are tight. Zero movement. It was so tight it took a little effort to get them on. But they look great, fit nice and snug. I am happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L84Cabo Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Well then it seems like from your response you were more interested in starting a thread telling us the problems you had rather than checking in with FFT first. Maybe that's just the way you roll but I would have taken the step to contact them before getting on-line and writing up a review. That's just the way I roll. Have a nice day. Wow KB Fab...that seems a little harsh to me. He's just giving honest first impressions/opinions on a product a lot of us have been waiting for. Seemed honest and direct to me without slamming FFT. He's under no obligation to check with FFT first and I, for one, appreciate the info...and I will similarly add to it here without contacting FFT first because it's Saturday and I haven't had time. Plus I'm going to assume that the folks at FFT are "big boys" and can take a little constructive and fair evaluation of their new product. I further believe that consumers have a right to know of possible problems...especially on a new product. I will also state that while I don't have much direct experience with the folks at FFT, I have no reason to beleive that they are not fine upstanding people who stand by their product and will make right whatever isn't. I will happily give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise...innocent until proven guilty and all that. Now, with all that said, I could not get my grips on my gun. They are significantly bowed and do not fit. The easiest way I can explain this without pictures becasue I would need four hands...which I don't currently have...is as follows... If you take the factory grips off the gun and align them like they would be when they are on the gun, you will see that the seem on the under side is perfectly aligned...at least mine are. If you do the same with the FFT grips, you will see that they are bowed and do not align properly. At least this is the case with mine. I have tried to squeeze them together to force them to fit just to see if I could get them mounted on the gun but I couldn't even do that. So...that's life. S*%*t happens. It's probably just a glitch with the first production runs. Or I just got a bad one. I'll just contact FFT on Monday and see what they suggest. There...see...information shared. Nobody got hurt. Nobody was called any names. Everyone was polite and professional. That's how I roll Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kronik Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I have the same issues though I've not noticed shifting once installed. Then again, I've not spent any time with it at the range since installing the forend. I appreciate the honest review as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR_ICE Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Received mine yesterday; Installed and agree with the same irregularities in fit as TKTM, LeoAtrox, and Kronik. Not as perfect but will suffice for $50. Some areas are not as thick as the OEM, inside tongue. It holds together fine while handling but I won’t be able to shoot or send pics until next week to see how it holds under fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeoAtrox Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 put your palm on the barrel and place your fingers on one of the halves right at boundary between the two halves. Now make a kung-fu grip and see if you can feel one half move past the other (you'll hear a squeak too) No movement in mine. It was a tight fit due to the bowed side, and the tension made it a little harder to get the barrel fully seated in the receiver (I planted the muzzle into the padded floor and pushed down on the butt) but, once it was fully seated, there was no room for either half to move parallel to the barrel. It's rock solid. I see the irregularity in the peices, but they function the same ... And for $50, I'm not complaining. A small price to pay to keep me legal and maintain the comfort of the original forearm. The FFT forearm is far from perfect, but it is worth the money for anyone that wants to stay on the right side of the law (as stupid as that law may be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKTM Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 No movement in mine. It was a tight fit due to the bowed side, and the tension made it a little harder to get the barrel fully seated in the receiver (I planted the muzzle into the padded floor and pushed down on the butt) but, once it was fully seated, there was no room for either half to move parallel to the barrel. It's rock solid. I see the irregularity in the peices, but they function the same ... And for $50, I'm not complaining. A small price to pay to keep me legal and maintain the comfort of the original forearm. The FFT forearm is far from perfect, but it is worth the money for anyone that wants to stay on the right side of the law (as stupid as that law may be). mine did not move parallel to the barrel either, but if you squeezed one of the forends towards the barrel (perpendicular to the plane of the barrel) it would move. I will try to take some video so it becomes a little bit clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopetonBrown Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Well then it seems like from your response you were more interested in starting a thread telling us the problems you had rather than checking in with FFT first. Maybe that's just the way you roll but I would have taken the step to contact them before getting on-line and writing up a review. That's just the way I roll. Have a nice day. KBFab, with your vociferous attacks on Mesa Tacticals Urbino stock and it's use of a screw driver for assembly which later disintegrated into personal attacks on the owner of the company it doesn't seem that is how you roll. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Fab Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 KBFab, with your vociferous attacks on Mesa Tacticals Urbino stock and it's use of a screw driver for assembly which later disintegrated into personal attacks on the owner of the company it doesn't seem that is how you roll. :-) Expressing my disappointment in how something was designed, no matter how vociferously, is different. Had I bought a Mesa Tactical Urbino and had subsequent issues with it I would not have gotten on the internet and written anything until I had contacted Mesa with my concerns. That is how I roll. Oh and btw, thanks so much for "your" positive contribution. I think we should all strive to be more like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKTM Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 I edited the original post with a link to the video of the issue notice the sound the FFT forend makes and the deflection between the hand guard halves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmaxfan Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I edited the original post with a link to the video of the issue notice the sound the FFT forend makes and the deflection between the hand guard halves. Okay, what are you going to do now? Return it for a refund or just keep bitching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKTM Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Okay, what are you going to do now? Return it for a refund or just keep bitching? Does your vocabulary have no distinction between "bitching" and "clarification" ? And, why should I answer the rest of your question given your obvious disdain of knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Has anyone spoke with Freedom Fighter's yet about this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmaxfan Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Does your vocabulary have no distinction between "bitching" and "clarification" ? And, why should I answer the rest of your question given your obvious disdain of knowledge? Mommy buy you a dictionary for Christmas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKTM Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Mommy buy you a dictionary for Christmas? Using the birth of Christ to insult someone; I'll say a prayer for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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