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FFT forend review


TKTM

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Why don't you just answer my question about whether you have contacted them about your problem?

 

I don't reveal PII on the net, especially when its not germane to the issue. But if it will make you happy, I will tell you I have no conflict of interest in the matter in any way. Are you willing to make the same statement?

 

On the other hand, a fact that is germane to the poor performance of the FFT handguard is that I have taken the FFT forends off of my Benelli M4. I will not put a set FFT forends back on my M4 until I am sure that they will not diminish the quality and capability of the shotgun. I am hopeful that a fix can be made. I also have faith that FFT will stand behind their product; I do hope you can make a non conflict of interest statement, otherwise I may find my faith in FFT to be misplaced.

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I don't reveal PII on the net, especially when its not germane to the issue. But if it will make you happy, I will tell you I have no conflict of interest in the matter in any way. Are you willing to make the same statement?

 

On the other hand, a fact that is germane to the poor performance of the FFT handguard is that I have taken the FFT forends off of my Benelli M4. I will not put a set FFT forends back on my M4 until I am sure that they will not diminish the quality and capability of the shotgun. I am hopeful that a fix can be made. I also have faith that FFT will stand behind their product; I do hope you can make a non conflict of interest statement, otherwise I may find my faith in FFT to be misplaced.

 

What does PII have to do with answering a simple question. I didn't ask you to reveal anything other than whether YOU contacted FTT for some kind of resolution to your issue. I didn't need a dissertation on the matter, a simple yes or no would suffice. I think at this point we all know what your answer is.:rolleyes: And yes, I have NO affiliation whatsoever with FFT other than the fact that I am a satisfied customer.

 

And while I'm at it, I don't hide from anyone. You can find what I do here and if you want to bad enough, you can come find me as well.

 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/KB-Fabrications-LLC/109880982386571

Edited by KB Fab
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could the warping be from pulling them out of the mold to quickly ?

 

One way to possibly test for that is see if the FFT hand guards soften when heated; it might also be a way to solve some of these issues at home.

Edited by TKTM
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What does PII have to do with answering a simple question. I didn't ask you to reveal anything other than whether YOU contacted FTT for some kind of resolution to your issue. I didn't need a dissertation on the matter, a simple yes or no would suffice. I think at this point we all know what your answer is.:rolleyes: And yes, I have NO affiliation whatsoever with FFT other than the fact that I am a satisfied customer.

 

And while I'm at it, I don't hide from anyone. You can find what I do here and if you want to bad enough, you can come find me as well.

 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/KB-Fabrications-LLC/109880982386571

 

Well I'm glad that what appears to be shilling on your part is only as the result of being a satisfied customer.

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Why not just return it for a refund if you aren't happy with it?

 

It would be very hard to control the plastic with a heat gun in an attempt to conform it to your weapon. It would probably have to be done installed on the weapon, and with the two halves in a vice. There is no guarantee that it would work either.

 

I'd just send it back, wait for the errors to be corrected in house. Then repurchase at a later date.

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Why not just return it for a refund if you aren't happy with it?

 

It would be very hard to control the plastic with a heat gun in an attempt to conform it to your weapon. It would probably have to be done installed on the weapon, and with the two halves in a vice. There is no guarantee that it would work either.

 

I'd just send it back, wait for the errors to be corrected in house. Then repurchase at a later date.

 

 

I'm not sure if it is thermoset or a thermoform plastic; if its thermoset a heat gun would not work. If it is thermoform then it might be possible to alter the groove just enough so that the tongue won't wiggle around inside. That might have solved the shifting/screeching issue mine came with.

 

But I agree with you if it has to be done on the gun it would not be worthwhile to try and fix it. Especially if its a fit problem as bad as the one L84Cabo reported - not even being able to get the halves close enough together to fit in the gun.

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I received my new FFT forend today and thought I would comment on my experiences so far.

As has already been noted, the bowing in the two halves is quite a bit more pronounced than on the OEM forend, and the tongue and groove are smaller and more bevelled. While installation was somewhat difficult (I had to put a lot of pressure on the two halves, both to squeeze them together where they insert

into the receiver, and to seat them in the receiver), once installed with barrel screw *very* firmly tightened down, there was no movement or squeaking in the forearm whatsoever. Granted, I have yet to test this new setup at the range, but it seems quite solid on my M4, once installed with a fair bit of force. I am slightly disappointed in the effort required on assembly (though perhaps this will abate in due course). I would also add that the color of the unit I received does not exactly match the OEM forend: the OEM is a darker and "slicker" black, while the FFT version looks lighter and a bit "chalkier" if that makes any sense. I would assume this difference reflects the different materials used?

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Why not just return it for a refund if you aren't happy with it?

 

It would be very hard to control the plastic with a heat gun in an attempt to conform it to your weapon. It would probably have to be done installed on the weapon, and with the two halves in a vice. There is no guarantee that it would work either.

 

I'd just send it back, wait for the errors to be corrected in house. Then repurchase at a later date.

 

This person is not going to answer the question.fruity.gif To me there is something else afoot here and since this guy seems to get off on his verbal gymnastics, I'm going to end my participation in this thread and go on my merry way. I'm happy to have no problems and be one step closer to 922r myself.

 

 

beatingdeadhorse.gif

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This person is not going to answer the question.fruity.gif To me there is something else afoot here and since this guy seems to get off on his verbal gymnastics, I'm going to end my participation in this thread and go on my merry way. I'm happy to have no problems and be one step closer to 922r myself.

 

 

beatingdeadhorse.gif

 

 

There certainly is something a foot, and it is the slack in the rope you are hanging around yourself. Now if you would kindly pull that rope taut by kindly telling us how having or not having returned the FFT forearm in any way affects the fit of the forearm to the gun? It doesn't, its is just a strawman put up by a shill.

Edited by TKTM
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Hello,

...

 

Original Poster,

My Forearm halves also arrived very slightly warped. However, once installed, there is no gap or play in the seam. In my opinion, the warp promotes a tighter fit. To address your ‘noise’ problem, suggest you lightly stipple both sides of the tab with a Center Punch or Ice Pick. Please let us know how this works for you.

 

My $0.02 & YMMV,

Smeck

 

I think that is the case, the more out of spec it is the more it keeps the halves from slipping past each other. I suspect the tongue was purposefully made small to allow the out of spec parts to mate.

 

The stippling might work, but it probably would loosen back up. Using black RTV as "fixodent" probably would do the trick, as would using a small pin to join the halves.

 

Hopefully most people have a fit up like yours. Two things I would check with your fitup are (1) make sure that barrel is properly seated in the receiver. (2) spray your handguard haves with some oil and see if they shift/squeak. That will at least give some confidence that they wont give away your position when you are out in the field and the handguards get sweaty or oily.

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Just a quick update...I was finally able to get my forend mounted. It took me about 20 minutes on my third session. The solution involved a rather large pair of channel lock pliers. Probably should have used them sooner but I wanted to see if I could get them on without the use of tools.

 

There is no movement in the grips although I do have the squeaking that others have experienced...but not quite as bad. For refernece my factory grips do not squeak.

 

I'm on the fence on whether to keep them or not. I'm really not happy with the fit issues but my desire to be "legal" may outweigh this.

 

FFT wants their customers to be satisfied and will happily exchange them or give me a refund so no issues there.

 

Peace

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....

I'm on the fence on whether to keep them or not. I'm really not happy with the fit issues but my desire to be "legal" may outweigh this.

....

 

Peace

 

Here is another thought to give some thought to, and it is a big "IF". If the Feds go the route I expect them to on imported shotguns, I suspect that any "military" shotgun in a non-importable condition will be declared to be a destructive device. Moreover, to be able to register your shotgun as a DD it will have to be 922r compliant. IF that played out, there would be quite the run on compliance parts.

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I think that's a huge *IF* even if they did pass some new importing laws my guess is they would not be retroactive, it's just too hard to deal with saying every M4, M1/M2 tactical, FN, saiga, etc. that's ever come into the country as a 12ga now needs to be regulated. If you read the recent ATF study on shotguns they do list features that they feel make some imported shotguns non-sporting, however neither the M4 or Saiga as currently imported fit any of those guidelines. More than likely what they'd do is what they did in the past and that's only change the laws for newly imported guns, and then manufacturers would just find new ways around it, just like many did back in 94', and just like the saiga and M4 are imported currently under.

 

That aside, it's obviously best to have your M4 conforming to 922r, the forearm may not be a perfect OEM replacement but it's another US made part and it appears to function fine and it makes a lot of M4's 922r compliant until more US parts come out down the road.

 

That aside if the creaking/movement really bothers someone another fix could be to effectively "bed" the two halves of the forearm together, essentially using a small "strip" of putty style epoxy where the forearm tongue and groove is to take up any play there and mate the two sides from rubbing past each other. The forearm would still install and remove as before just that the epoxy would take up the "give" in the tongue and groove so the two halves would not move around. I'm tempted to try it just for giggles because frankly in an M4 a $50 part is cheap.

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Here's an even more simple fix that at least on mine for now has stopped any noise.

 

Walmart sells 1/8" thick adhesive backed foam 8x10 sheets, you can get them at most arts crafts stores as well for under $1 a sheet. Cut a long 1/16" wide strip and lay it into the groove on the one side of the forearm.

 

On mine it was not enough to create any gap on the two halves when installed but enough that it no longer moves or creaks when you compress the halves toward the barrel.

 

Over time it's possible the foam may compress and it will go back to having more give, but for now that seems like a pretty quick easy fix.

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There certainly is something a foot, and it is the slack in the rope you are hanging around yourself. Now if you would kindly pull that rope taut by kindly telling us how having or not having returned the FFT forearm in any way affects the fit of the forearm to the gun? It doesn't, its is just a strawman put up by a shill.

 

I don't think it's shilling - KB is just an internet antagonist.

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showpost.php?p=143104&postcount=6

 

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I think that's a huge *IF* even if they did pass some new importing laws my guess is they would not be retroactive, it's just too hard to deal with saying every M4, M1/M2 tactical, FN, saiga, etc. that's ever come into the country as a 12ga now needs to be regulated. If you read the recent ATF study on shotguns they do list features that they feel make some imported shotguns non-sporting, however neither the M4 or Saiga as currently imported fit any of those guidelines. More than likely what they'd do is what they did in the past and that's only change the laws for newly imported guns, and then manufacturers would just find new ways around it, just like many did back in 94', and just like the saiga and M4 are imported currently under.

 

That aside, it's obviously best to have your M4 conforming to 922r, the forearm may not be a perfect OEM replacement but it's another US made part and it appears to function fine and it makes a lot of M4's 922r compliant until more US parts come out down the road.

 

That aside if the creaking/movement really bothers someone another fix could be to effectively "bed" the two halves of the forearm together, essentially using a small "strip" of putty style epoxy where the forearm tongue and groove is to take up any play there and mate the two sides from rubbing past each other. The forearm would still install and remove as before just that the epoxy would take up the "give" in the tongue and groove so the two halves would not move around. I'm tempted to try it just for giggles because frankly in an M4 a $50 part is cheap.

 

Bedding the strips together I think would probably work well, but every time you take it on an off you would risk having to re-bed it. Softening up the plastic (if possible) probably would be a permanent solution. And as you said, it is a $50 part on a $1500 shotgun so the experimentation might be worth it.

 

On the ATF study, the scenario I described covers all the elements you list. Its not to difficult to tell a importable from non-importable M4. If you had one in a non-importable condition you could readily be asked to show your Destructive Device tax stamp; there would be no hassle to people who left their M4's in a importable condition. So anyone who had their M4 in a un-imporatble condition would have to register it as a DD. To keep people from swamping / registering their non-converted M4's as DD's the ATF would require it to be 922r compliant before issuing the amnesty tax stamp (free of charge). I think they would limit the DD device to "military" shotguns, as mentioned in the study.

 

Under that scenario the ATF has a way to easily control the issues you raised, plus the Attorney General can do it all with the stroke of a pen.

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So for giggles I did bed the tongue/groove, worked like a charm, though I did remove the mag tube just to ensure that no epoxy got on the tube since the forearm actually has very little clearance to the mag tube. In the end I wouldn't have needed to as I got the amount in the groove right so none really spread outside of it.

 

It worked all right, the forearm is locked rock solid now.

 

Having used similar epoxy bedding rifles for years that are taken in and out of their stocks dozens of times a year, and fired thousands of rounds, just removing and installing the forearm pieces in my opinion will never wear on the bedding under normal use, perhaps if the forearm pieces flex a lot under recoil it could wear the groove larger, but recoil moves in the same plane as the forearm grooves so it shouldn't induce a lot of "towards" the barrel stress causing the issue. With as thin as this bedding area is I doubt it would "wear" it would probably just chip out of the groove.

 

Another thing I wonder is my OEM forearm pieces have some give too, much less, but I can still make them shift a tiny bit with enough pressure, but they are silent. I wonder if the material benelli uses just doesn't make noise when shifting, it does seem to be a smoother more "slippery" material.

 

Logistically I don't think the ATF will do it. First of all no tax stamp is ever going to be free. Second how will the ATF verify that your shotgun is 922r compliant, there's no way they have the manpower or desire to send ATF agents to everyone that has a modified M4, Saiga, M1/M2, FN, etc. etc. shotgun. Local police departments aren't going to want to do it, and neither are dealers.

 

That would also mean ANY part that could be used to improperly modify an imported shotgun would be illegal to sell unless the forms and tax stamp were approved before purchase. So now if you wanted to buy a surefire light, side saddle, stock, picatiny rail, etc. etc. you'd have to fill out a ATF form and get a tax stamp for it just as with suppressors, before you could put it on your M4. Manufacturers would have to serial number those parts and they would have to be tracked. Logistically I just don't think that's something the ATF wants to deal with.

 

Much more likely is they will just increase the restrictions on imported shotguns to cover those guidelines (and possible more) in the study. Which is nothing new, that's why the M4 and saiga have to be imported nurtured as it is. I think they are concerned with a new breed of shotguns on the horizon coming down the pipe in the next couple years that fit more of their study "features" listed as non-sporting. Remember as the M4 and Saiga are imported right now, they don't have ANY features the study lists as non-sporting.

 

If they ATF was setting up the study to ban the import of the M4 and Saiga specifically they could have easily tailored it to them both. For example any shotgun with a detachable magazine would have made the Saiga illegal to import. Any shotgun with a picatinny rail, ghost sights, or pistol grip stock would have taken care of the M4. Benelli then would just put a non-pistol grip stock on it and remove the rail and ghost sights and import it anyway.

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So for giggles I did bed the tongue/groove, worked like a charm, though I did remove the mag tube just to ensure that no epoxy got on the tube since the forearm actually has very little clearance to the mag tube. In the end I wouldn't have needed to as I got the amount in the groove right so none really spread outside of it.

 

It worked all right, the forearm is locked rock solid now. .....Remember as the M4 and Saiga are imported right now, they don't have ANY features the study lists as non-sporting.

....

....

 

Is the bond between the forearm and epoxy good enough that it won't just pop out after a few uses? I wager you could just wrap some wax paper around the magazine tube to keep the epoxy off during the initial setup.

 

On the ATF, the can pretty much do what they wish with impunity on imports. If they do go the Destructive Device root, I expect that they will try to limit the number of registrations any way they can, inability to handle the throughput would fit right in with that.

 

Both the M4 and the Saiga have features that are on the list. The M4 can hold more than 5 rounds; The Saiga has a side rail on the receiver. Both are "military" derivatives. But I will wager dimes to donuts that the MD-20 mag for the Saiga will be declared a destructive device in and of itself.

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The bond should be good, I've used this stuff in much higher stress areas without issue. there are way to make it better if it wouldn't hold, I roughed up the channel with coarse sand paper, but you could also drill small holes in the channel to give it more purchase if it needs it.

 

I could have used release agent on the tube, I just didn't want to mess with it and there was no downside to not having the mag tube in there. If I did it again I wouldn't bother with removing it, I'd just put some release agent on it.

 

There's really no way to know how well it will hold up over time without testing it long term, that's the bottom line.

 

Yes the M4 can be MODIFIED to hold over five rounds etc. but I don't think the ATF is worried about what you can add to the gun, but more how it's imported out of the box from the manufacturer. If they were going to go the route of what you can add onto the gun aftermarket every beretta, benelli, FN, etc. shotgun would end up being restricted because you can buy mag extensions, rails, lights, tac stocks for all of them, military weapon or not.

 

Like I said I think the ATF is more worried about things coming down the pipe that have not hit the general public's view yet that are a lot more extreme than the saiga or m4 in any configuration.

 

However, I will say that if I wanted an M4 or saiga and didn't have one, I'd be buying one and all the toys to go with it now, especially MD20 mags and any conversion parts, better safe than sorry, and if you have to register it later with a tax stamp that's the price to have the toys, just like a suppressor, or SBR sadly.

Edited by Todd308
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...

 

Yes the M4 can be MODIFIED to hold over five rounds etc. but I don't think the ATF is worried about what you can add to the gun, but more how it's imported out of the box from the manufacturer.

 

Thanks for the advice on the bonding.

 

The M4 can hold more than 5 rounds AS-IS, you just have to put Aguila 12 ga mini shells in it.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR88XqpMMHEqwl4qAPwkBTAOeCD7gVW_qucARs9nW5adxmKDZ1Siw&t=1

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

 

The M4 can hold more than 5 rounds AS-IS, you just have to put Aguila 12 ga mini shells in it.

 

Here are some alternative Italian made 2-1/4" high-brass mini slugs, which I have not tried in the M4 yet.

These can be used in Benelli's Italian brethren, the Franchi SPAS 12, in pump action mode, as the automatic mode requires a stout cartridge to cycle it properly. Using these would only change the SPAS 8+1 loading capacity to 9+1.

5b069fe1.jpg

0f5ba1d6.jpg

Edited by benelliwerkes
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  • 1 month later...

I tried without success to get the bbl down far enough to make sure it was tight against the receiver. I beat on the end of the bbl with a plastic hammer. Finally I took the Tactical forend off and carefully compared it with the OEM. The Tactical are about 3/16 of an inch longer, and the cut ends are radiused outward, not a 90 degree angle like the OEM. That prevents the forend from fully seating at the top and at the bottom. I had a 1/8" gap between bbl ring and receiver, and no matter how much oil or how hard I beat could I get the bbl to seat. I then tried filing off some of the forend but still could not get it seated properly. My advice, don't expect too much; the replacement USA looks good but is just not an exact match for the OEM. I expect that Benelli spent more than Tactical making their plastic. Maybe it will work for you if you're better with a file than I am. I was disappointed.

Fliplip

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