WTS: 14" Benelli entry barrel on gunbroker.com

[ROCKETW19]

Sounds like several people here don't know much about the NFA.

 

A short barrel is just a part, yes. Completely unregulated. However, if you also possess a compatible firearm and no path to the legal use of that short barrel, then you are in violation under Constructive Possession. A disassembled short-barreled shotgun and an assembled short-barrel shotgun are precisely the same thing under the law.

 

See US v Thompson/Center Arms Co. This case affirms Constructive Possession for NFA firearms, however it clarifies that CP does not apply if there is a legal pathway for the use of the NFA-specific part.

 

In other words, hypothetically, if you owned a complete M4 shotgun and bought and possessed this 14" M4 barrel, then, without an approved Form 1 for the SBS, you would have no legal path to the use of that 14" M4 barrel and would therefore be in violation under CP. Your actual intent behind possessing and using the barrel is irrelevant to the charge.

 

This applies to NFA firearms across the board, to include full-auto fire control parts and a compatible semi-auto firearm. If they catch you with a semi-auto AR15 and a set of M16 fire control parts in your possession, even if not installed in the rifle, CP allows LE to disassemble your AR, install those M16 parts and try to make the rifle fire a second round with a single trigger pull (which is easy to do). When they are successful, you can be arrested and charged with possession of an unregistered machine gun.

 

That's how it works.

 

The only exception to this are "silencers", which have no CP applicability simply because an individual suppressor part (tube, baffle, end cap, etc) is defined as a "silencer" by itself.

 

And there is plenty of case law to back up CP as it pertains to NFA, both state and fed. Seek it out and read it before concluding it's not real.

as much as it sounds silly this is almost what my FFL said.

So I have to agree that you can not have the barrel around the M4. what I didnt ask was can I have the barrel if you are starting the process?

I have to do the trust and this whole thing is gonna take forever.

[Monkey]

as much as it sounds silly this is almost what my FFL said.

So I have to agree that you can not have the barrel around the M4. what I didnt ask was can I have the barrel if you are starting the process?

I have to do the trust and this whole thing is gonna take forever.

 

If your Form 4 or 1 has not been approved, then your NFA firearm or device is not yet registered to you. Nothing short of an approved and returned Form 1 or 4 should be considered safe to possess the NFA firearm, assembled or not. If you are discovered with the device before you are approved, in the eyes of the law it is no different than not submitting the application and paying the tax to begin with. In court, it's immaterial that you applied or were approved the very next day because at the time of the arrest, it was unregistered. That fact would likely not even be allowed presentation as evidence in your defense.

 

The fact that you did have an application in the pipeline may weigh in your favor when the US Attorney in your area decides whether or not to prosecute you, but you certainly do not want a prosecutor's mood to decide this.

 

Separately, FFL/SOTs, oddly, tend to be the most uninformed people in this community regarding laws and regs. I've heard more garbage and FUD come from FFLS than anyone else. If you have an NFA-related question, best bet is to call NFA Branch and ask either an examiner or Tech Branch.

[KB Fab]

Here's a hypothetical. What if you have two M4's, one in standard 18.5" configuration and one entry model SBS that IS registered. Can you legally possess a second SBS barrel since you already have a registered SBS? Just food for thought.

[Tac Airlift]

Monkey has articulated the NFA-BATFE registration requirements and penalties associated with this issue. At this point we're just pissing in the wind as it is what it is.

 

However from a practical stand point for the average law abiding gun owner, and those of us with a Concealed Weapon or Firearm License the chances of an LE searching your home for a NFA violation are almost nonexistent.

 

For the sake of discussion, we purchase a 14 inch barrel from H&Kp2000 while he has them available. Upon receipt we lock the barrel in the safe along with our other guns. We then make application as an individual or go the NFA Gun Trust route. The 14 inch barrel remains in the safe until you receive the stamped BATFE approval. Are we breaking the law yes, however unless you are stupid enough to advertise the fact that you are in possession of a non approved NFA barrel the chances of LE involvement is not going to happen.

 

I would be more concerned after approval is granted that my newly configured M4 SBS is involved in the protection of my person or family from a home invasion. You mow down the bad guys and survive. Law enforcement takes your M4 SBS as evidence. Depending on the situation could be weeks, months, or longer before it is returned to you. The attorney's and the media distort the facts that you were using a weapon of mass destruction to defend yourself and family. Yeah I know it's approved but the liberal pukes will still have a field day.

 

Do we need a Benelli M4 14 inch SBS probably not unless we are heavily involved in CQB. Do they elevate the coolness factor you bet. Are they worth $1000+ depends on your individual price point.

[ROCKETW19]

Here's a hypothetical. What if you have two M4's, one in standard 18.5" configuration and one entry model SBS that IS registered. Can you legally possess a second SBS barrel since you already have a registered SBS? Just food for thought.

beats me,lol If the NFA stuff is that tight like monkey said i would only "guess" no.

[ROCKETW19]

Monkey has articulated the NFA-BATFE registration requirements and penalties associated with this issue. At this point we're just pissing in the wind as it is what it is.

 

However from a practical stand point for the average law abiding gun owner, and those of us with a Concealed Weapon or Firearm License the chances of an LE searching your home for a NFA violation are almost nonexistent.

 

For the sake of discussion, we purchase a 14 inch barrel from H&Kp2000 while he has them available. Upon receipt we lock the barrel in the safe along with our other guns. We then make application as an individual or go the NFA Gun Trust route. The 14 inch barrel remains in the safe until you receive the stamped BATFE approval. Are we breaking the law yes, however unless you are stupid enough to advertise the fact that you are in possession of a non approved NFA barrel the chances of LE involvement is not going to happen.

 

I would be more concerned after approval is granted that my newly configured M4 SBS is involved in the protection of my person or family from a home invasion. You mow down the bad guys and survive. Law enforcement takes your M4 SBS as evidence. Depending on the situation could be weeks, months, or longer before it is returned to you. The attorney's and the media distort the facts that you were using a weapon of mass destruction to defend yourself and family. Yeah I know it's approved but the liberal pukes will still have a field day.

 

Do we need a Benelli M4 14 inch SBS probably not unless we are heavily involved in CQB. Do they elevate the coolness factor you bet. Are they worth $1000+ depends on your individual price point.

LOL, sounds kinda silly but I only buy guns that are cool IMO. and a 14inch M4 is way cool,lol.

 

I do agree with you probably not getting in trouble but as said by monkey it is against the law.

on anothe note no police other than friends have ever been in my house and probably never will so are you safe I would guess most are.

[Monkey]

Here's a hypothetical. What if you have two M4's, one in standard 18.5" configuration and one entry model SBS that IS registered. Can you legally possess a second SBS barrel since you already have a registered SBS? Just food for thought.

 

Actually, this scenario is exactly the condition decided by US v. Thompson/Center: An aggregate of parts that can be used to build both an illegal configuration and a legal one.

 

For this hypothetical, the registered SBS M4 is your pathway to legality for the spare 14" barrel, despite also possessing a Title I M4.

 

You are legal in this scenario. Basically, you need to establish a legal use for the offending part or parts. The registered SBS is your legal use, even as a spare part just sitting around.

[Monkey]

Monkey has articulated the NFA-BATFE registration requirements and penalties associated with this issue. At this point we're just pissing in the wind as it is what it is.

 

However from a practical stand point for the average law abiding gun owner, and those of us with a Concealed Weapon or Firearm License the chances of an LE searching your home for a NFA violation are almost nonexistent.

 

For the sake of discussion, we purchase a 14 inch barrel from H&Kp2000 while he has them available. Upon receipt we lock the barrel in the safe along with our other guns. We then make application as an individual or go the NFA Gun Trust route. The 14 inch barrel remains in the safe until you receive the stamped BATFE approval. Are we breaking the law yes, however unless you are stupid enough to advertise the fact that you are in possession of a non approved NFA barrel the chances of LE involvement is not going to happen.

 

I would be more concerned after approval is granted that my newly configured M4 SBS is involved in the protection of my person or family from a home invasion. You mow down the bad guys and survive. Law enforcement takes your M4 SBS as evidence. Depending on the situation could be weeks, months, or longer before it is returned to you. The attorney's and the media distort the facts that you were using a weapon of mass destruction to defend yourself and family. Yeah I know it's approved but the liberal pukes will still have a field day.

 

Do we need a Benelli M4 14 inch SBS probably not unless we are heavily involved in CQB. Do they elevate the coolness factor you bet. Are they worth $1000+ depends on your individual price point.

 

Getting caught is always the other practical matter. We all drive faster than 55, some are more lucky with it than others.

 

The vast majority of these cases are not the result of an ATF investigation of you resulting in a search warrant issued for your house. In most cases, firearms violations are discovered incidentally to an otherwise unrelated 911 call. For example, you have a house fire or medical emergency, call 911 which triggers responses from Fire, Police and Para. A firefighter sees a scary looking gun in your bedroom closet and alerts the police officer on scene and there it goes.

 

Unless you are really involved in some criminal activity, you won't be the subject of an ATF investigation. That's not something you should worry about.

[KB Fab]

Actually, this scenario is exactly the condition decided by US v. Thompson/Center: An aggregate of parts that can be used to build both an illegal configuration and a legal one.

 

For this hypothetical, the registered SBS M4 is your pathway to legality for the spare 14" barrel, despite also possessing a Title I M4.

 

You are legal in this scenario. Basically, you need to establish a legal use for the offending part or parts. The registered SBS is your legal use, even as a spare part just sitting around.

 

Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time.

[Super33]

This all sounds like rocket science. Weren't these laws made by the same morons that are flushing our country down the toilet? I can own a shotgun with an 18" barrel but if I own a shotgun with a barrel 4" shorter without jumping through their stupid hoops like I'm some sort of circus animal I'm a felon. Seriously?? What exactly is the reasoning for this? Last I checked, there's a LOT of guns including rifles, handguns and so on that are much shorter than a SBS. So what's the damn point? IMO, a shorter barrel makes a shotgun LESS effective and LESS deadly by widening it's grouping and shortening it's effective range. Sure, it's easier to conceal but there's much better guns out there to conceal for whatever reasons you want to git it done. If the purpose is to make law abiding citizens hate the government, they're doing a great job!

[M4Madness]

So what's the damn point? IMO, a shorter barrel makes a shotgun LESS effective and LESS deadly by widening it's grouping and shortening it's effective range. Sure, it's easier to conceal but there's much better guns out there to conceal for whatever reasons you want to git it done.

 

I'll go one better than that. We can have everything (machineguns, short-barreled rifles, destructive devices, AOW's) here in Indiana but short-barreled shotguns. To make matters even worse, we can own AOW shotguns (which have short barrels and pistol grips). Which is easier to conceal, a 14" barreled shotgun with a pistol grip or a 14" barreled shotgun with a buttstock? Add a stock and we can't own it. LOL!

[ROCKETW19]

I'll go one better than that. We can have everything (machineguns, short-barreled rifles, destructive devices, AOW's) here in Indiana but short-barreled shotguns. To make matters even worse, we can own AOW shotguns (which have short barrels and pistol grips). Which is easier to conceal, a 14" barreled shotgun with a pistol grip or a 14" barreled shotgun with a buttstock? Add a stock and we can't own it. LOL!

Now that is just crazy:confused:

[Monkey]

Now that is just crazy:confused:

 

This is a VERY good thing.

 

AOWs made from a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 are not shotguns at all since they do not and never did have a buttstock, making them decidedly not "designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder".

 

It's easy to call them shotguns since they look, act, feed and fire like a shotgun, but they are considered "smooth-bore pistols" thus AOWs under the NFA. The practical distinction is thin, but the legal distinction is enormous since any federal law or regulation pertaining to a "short-barreled shotgun" does not apply to an AOW of the same pedigree. And any state law or regulation that mirrors federal law pertaining to an SBS also does not apply.

 

This means in such places like California (and Indiana) where the Remington 870 SBS is prohibited, the Remington 870 AOW is not.

[Broken Legend]

Yah, when they made up the stupid laws having to do with $200 tax stamps, they wanted to price it out of existence. The price for a shotgun back then was $10. Today that would be like buying a $300 short barreled shotgun and having to pay $6000 in a tax - every time it was transferred.

They wanted to include pistols into the legislation, but little old ladies with pistols revolted and forced them to only make it apply to short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and fully automatic weapons. Which is kinda funny since the whole legislation was about an assassination attempt made with a handgun by a crazy person who "blamed FDR and all rich people and capitalists for his chronic stomach pain." Which is stupid and crazy since FDR was nearly a socialist.

National Firearms Act of 1934

 

It was, in fact, a prolific mass murder that brought about the very idea of gun control in America. The National Firearms Act of 1934, which effectively banned private ownership of machine guns and other “gangster” weapons, was the first federal gun control law with long-lasting consequences. It was also a result of the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre in 1929. Americans had already grown weary of gang violence perpetrated by the likes of Al Capone and Bugs Moran. But the Feb. 14, 1929, incident seemed to be a tipping point.

 

Four years later, an assassination attempt on president-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt left Chicago mayor Anton Cermak mortally wounded. Together, the two high-profile shootings helped pave the way to the National Firearms Act.

Source: http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Political-Shootings-Gun-Control.htm

Then U.S. Attorney General Homer S. Cummings recognized that firearms could not be banned outright under the Second Amendment, so he proposed restrictive regulation in the form of an expensive tax and Federal registration. Originally, pistols and revolvers were to be regulated as strictly as machine guns; towards that end, cutting down a rifle or shotgun to circumvent the handgun restrictions by making a concealable weapon was taxed as strictly as a machine gun.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

 

Ugh, I hate how short barreled rifles and shotguns were just tacked on the end of that law for no reason. Kinda pisses me off. Stoopid politicians!

[Tac Airlift]

I placed an online order for the required NFA-ATF forms on 04-11-11, and received same on 04-15-11. They were sent USPS Priority Mail. The order was processed at the ATF Distribution Center in Springfield VA. I was surprised they processed the order with no delay and used Priority Mail.

 

ATF-F5320.1

ATF-F5320.4

ATF-F5320.20

ATF-F5330.20

FBI-258LE

ATF-F5630.7

 

http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/formlist.htm

[KB Fab]

I placed an online order for the required NFA-ATF forms on 04-11-11, and received same on 04-15-11. They were sent USPS Priority Mail. The order was processed at the ATF Distribution Center in Springfield VA. I was surprised they processed the order with no delay and used Priority Mail.

 

ATF-F5320.1

ATF-F5320.4

ATF-F5320.20

ATF-F5330.20

FBI-258LE

ATF-F5630.7

 

http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/formlist.htm

 

Oooooh, didjoo buy a barrel? And, can't you just print those off of the website?

[Tac Airlift]

Yes you can download them into pdf format. However I preferred to get hard copy with both sides of the various forms in tact to eliminate any double sided copying. In addition the FBI-258LE Finger Print Card is a heavier weight paper stock I assume to absorb the ink. As everything has to be submitted in duplicate might as well get it from the source. By the way you can order as many forms as you need.

 

No I haven't jumped on a barrel yet. Somebody made the leap on one of HKp2000's listed on Gunbroker.com for $998.00 + $12.00 for shipping. That was a price drop from the initial listing of $1075 w/shipping.

[KB Fab]

Yes you can download them into pdf format. However I preferred to get hard copy with both sides of the various forms in tact to eliminate any double sided copying. In addition the FBI-258LE Finger Print Card is a heavier weight paper stock I assume to absorb the ink. As everything has to be submitted in duplicate might as well get it from the source. By the way you can order as many forms as you need.

 

No I haven't jumped on a barrel yet. Somebody made the leap on one of HKp2000's listed on Gunbroker.com for $998.00 + $12.00 for shipping. That was a price drop from the initial listing of $1075 w/shipping.

 

Sounds reasonable. If they will give it to you for free and in their format then I see that as a bonus. Yeah i saw he had sold a couple of them. I think I'm gonna just wait and see what happens.