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Benelli M4, Failure to fire


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During some combat style shooting, I've experienced a number of failures where I will be firing at a high rate of speed. During rapid fire, the hammer will drop as the bolt is still cycling, my guess is while the bolt is still unlocked, therefore the firing pin doesn't make contact with the primer.

There is no mark on the primer of the failed round. Since the hammer is then down, I have to use the cocking handle to cycle a new round in order to re-**** the weapon.

I've always heard that Benelli's are very fast cycling weapons, so I find it hard to believe that I am beating the cycle of the bolt. Either way, should the hammer be falling without the bolt being fully in battery?

I've found myself slowing down my shooting in order to avoid this issue. I've looked for damage to the trigger group, but I don't see anything wrong.

Anyone else have this problem? Its only happened a couple times, but once is more then enough.

-Steve

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Steven, I haven't heard of this before, but then I haven't really shot my M4 in competition yet. Exactly how fast are you shooting? I know it's impossible to answer this with any real precision; just trying to get a feel for it. Are you shooting at multiple targets very close together, or are you trying to put two slugs on one target?

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There was a discussion on the Ducks Unlimited message board (of all places) by a guy from Utah who claimed that Benellis were actually one of the slowest combat guns around and prone to malfunction when used by the fastest combat shooters.

 

He was pushing for Benelli to stop the "false advertising" and cease using the 'fastest cycling' claim.

 

This guy even beat up Tom Knapp on his site about the matter.

 

Well, it turned out the guy was correct. The fastest shooters are getting the best times from the Winchester X2 in 3". The very best 3-gun shooters can pull .11's with this gun without malfunction.

 

These same shooters could only muster .13's with the Benellis they were testing. Any faster and the gun malfunctions just as you are describing; the hammer follows the bolt down and the gun ftf. BTW - the big bolt handles actually slows down the rate and contributes to the ftf problem.

 

The guy was being kinda a jerk, but his facts were good, so there was not much anyone could say.

 

Pretty good article about the whole thing at Winchester's website.

 

mudhen - CA

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Thanks for the info. I highly doubt I'm pushing the limits of the weapon. I can't give an exact answer, but I think I was firing about 4 or 5 rounds a second.

My shooting style when it happens is when I'm firing rapidly on a single target. Typically, this is with Birdshot. Usually Winchester bulk pack, I believe its either 2 3/4 or 3 dram loading.

Mechanically, is it possible for the hammer to fall on the bolt while the bolt is still moving forward?

 

You know, I have a Tacstar side saddle mounted, I wonder if it is a little too tight and is causing some restriction and slowing the movement of the bolt? I'm pretty sure that it happened before the installation of the Tacstar unit.

 

This is disapointing if this is yet another problem for the Benelli line.

Another major thing I'm disapointed in is the placement and design of the safety. For a combat shotgun, I find it lacking.

-Steve

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Well I'll be ****ed. That article pretty much says I was out shooting my Benelli. I thought the Benelli cycled faster than .14 seconds...

I honestly didn't think I was going that fast, and have found myself holding back in fear of running into this problem. Tough to believe considering how heavy the trigger is on the M4.

The article mentions some upgrades out there made by SRM. Will these work in a Benelli M4?

Cabela's has the stuff, but it doesn't indicate if it will work in the M4 or not. The claim is it will increase the cyclic rate by 40% on a gas gun.

It looks like the entire recoil tube assembly. Which means this would be a gunsmith job since we all know the troubles in removing the recoil tube for the telescopic stock installations.

I dropped SRM an e-mail asking about compatability or if they're willing to begin supporting this model weapon. Maybe they'd be willing to build a tube with the proper mill marks on it for the telescopic stock?

I'd gladly send my M4 to them to have this work done.

Here is their website, e-mail if you're interested in this as well.

http://www.surecycle.com/default.asp?CP=0

They offer a lot of inhouse action work as well.

-Steve

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Here's my response from SRM.

 

Steve,

 

We do service the M4 Benelli and we do offer stainless steel actions for it.

The magazine upgrade kit is also available. If you are interested in

shipping your shotgun to us for service please be sure to include your

daytime contact and credit card information. The basic labor charge for our

services is $75 and I cannot imagine your M4 needing any other repairs, so

that will be all of the labor cost. The action system is $155 and the

magazine kit is $28.

 

Regards,

 

SRM Performance Products

A Division of Snake River Machine, Inc.

Jeffrey Hajjar - President and CEO

tel 208 887 9395

fax 208 884 1746

 

I wrote a response asking a few more questions, which I'll let everyone know the answers too.

 

My e-mail:

-------------------------------

Thank you for the prompt reply.

I have a few other questions though if you don't mind.

1. Do you need the entire shotgun for the work, or can I simply send the receiver, bolt group and trigger assembly? Yes, I know it is still considered a firearm, and must be shipped accordingly.

 

2. Typically, how long does the work take?

 

3. Will barrel porting effect the action with your system installed? I was considering having Magnaport do the porting, but if you offer the service, I'd much rather do that. BTW, the M4 I have has removeable chokes.

 

4. Do you offer any trigger work? I would like to lighten the trigger pull to around 4 lbs., yet remain safe and reliable.

 

5. Your services page lists a number of minor modifications to enhance reliability and speed. My M4 has went through about 2000 rounds in the past 3 months that I've had it.

 

6. From my understanding, the system you install replaces the recoil tube. If so, does this tube come with the notches milled into the outside for the collapsible stock to lock into place? If this is the case, I know a significant number of people who would jump at this to replace the model in the limited edition and the 11703 M4's.

 

Thank you,

-Steve

------------------

 

Looks promising...

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Man what a reaming rip off!!! Never seen a bunch of whiners blame their inability to shoot a gun instead of with a gun. Go ahead, blame it on the gun like you always do. Never could be the cheap ammo or proper oiling or manhandling of the gun. These people will always make money on the weekend warrior instead of the real life practical shooter and good for them. Because I know from experience when the chips are down anytime, anyplace, without any aftermarket parts, I can rely on my factory parts and do anything to mine that needs to be done. I'll take on any M4 or M1 tac. anyday with my stock parts and go the distance.

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Originally posted by wallhanger54:

Man what a reaming rip off!!! Never seen a bunch of whiners blame their inability to shoot a gun instead of with a gun. Go ahead, blame it on the gun like you always do. Never could be the cheap ammo or proper oiling or manhandling of the gun. These people will always make money on the weekend warrior instead of the real life practical shooter and good for them. Because I know from experience when the chips are down anytime, anyplace, without any aftermarket parts, I can rely on my factory parts and do anything to mine that needs to be done. I'll take on any M4 or M1 tac. anyday with my stock parts and go the distance.

Not sure I follow you. Are you mad because someone had a misfire and he believes he is outshooting his gun or that people feel the need to get aftermarket parts? I'll be happy just to have an M4. What are you shooting?
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Not sure I follow you either wallhanger54.

I laid out the issue with the gun, the problem is a known problem for those shooting at a high rate of speed. Something in which I am encountering. It's not really a factory gun problem, since most arn't shooting at this high of a rate. If you have another suggestion to look into -- post it. Tell me why my 3 month old Benelli M4 fails only when I'm rapid firing on a target. A benelli that is cleaned thouroughly after every outing and is inspected for any type of damage. The failure involves the hammer dropping, and a live round is in the chamber, with no sign of a mark on the primer.

I wouldn't bother with the aftermarket if I wasn't encountering the problem.

 

I'm sure if you scroll back 3 months and see that I busted a gas piston after 50 rounds, you'd say that was my fault too right?

 

If I said I was using super bullet X, and magic oil Y and cleaned it in a super duper fashion using Z, you'd gripe that I was a sucker and flushing my money down the toilet just as you are now.

 

BTW, who was complaining? And you seem to get mad easily. I don't care if you can out shoot me or not, no one asked you. If you don't have anything of value to post, STFU.

-Steve

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