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themao

Need advice on M4 set-up

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Hi all. I bought a M4 a few months ago, and I have already installed the 922R compliant parts including a Ti Carriercomp magazine tube + follower + hammer and a FFT handguard. Likewise, I'm experimenting between a pistol grip stock and std factory stock for now. My questions concern the following, and I would advice from those with experience:

 

1. Side saddles/Pictinny Rail: I was eyeballing Sidearmor's Mod2 system, complete with a 6 or 8 shell carrier. I like the set up because it provides a secure pictinny rail mounting location for their forward shell holder on the right side, a light on the left and a secure means to mount an Aimpoint T1. Likewise, I could attach the forward mount for a sling on the rail on the left. However, I've read on the web that some people have had issues with the rail screws that thread into the receiver. Also, some say the rail is out of spec as it is higher up than usual. I find I can line up the ghost rings perfect when I obtain an appropriate cheek weld, so that concerns me. I rather not buy an Urbino stock with a riser if I can help it as I like the LOP of the factory stock (for my body at least). Another issue I see with the Sidearmor system is disassembly. I'm under the impression that the rail system has to be removed in order to disassemble the shotgun. Is that correct?

 

Regardless, are there any other alternatives besides Mesa Tactical? The Mesa wouldn't allow me to put a forward shell holder and a light on the same rail system.

 

2. Slings: Right now I have a Vickers 2 point sling mounted to the fore-end cap (facing to the left) and the rear of the stock. However, it just doesn't fit as well as the set up on my M4 carbine (also a Vickers two point mounted to a DD Lite 12 FSP rail and Magpul stock at the rear), and I think it's because the forward part of the sling is to far up when compared to a M4 carbine. I think the Side armor rail could help me solve this problem by moving the forward point back a little, but I wanted some opinions on this issue from those with trigger time behind a M4. I'm a little brainwashed towards a two point sling courtesy of a Vickers class, but I'm open to different ideas as a shotgun is a little different from a carbine.

 

I guess in a brief summary, I really want a way to:

 

1. Have the option of mounting an Aimpoint T1 with a low LaRue mount

2. mount a Surefire light.

3. Mount a shell carrier (6-8 shells)

4. Mount a good two point sling

5. Mount a forward facing two shell carrier for slugs or emergency reloads

 

Thoughts? Thanks and sorry for the long post. :)

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It's pricey, but a B&T (Brugger & Thomet) fore end rail system is very nice and allows for takedown without issues.

 

If the Vickers Sling is too short, EMDOM has a two point adjustable sling that works for me. Lots of adjustment.

 

I have found that the Larue mount sits higher than the ARMS mount. I like the lower profile of the arms mount for my cheekweld.

 

Flashlight always a good thing on a fighting firearm

 

I am using ESSTAC shotgun cards mounted on a velcro I stuck onto the receiver. Works well for me and avoids the stripped receiver screw issue that can occur.

 

I like the forward facing shell carrier idea. I might get a Sidearmor version sometime in the new year to try out.

 

Good luck! Sounds like you thought this out.

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I've ran setups on both the SideArmor and the Surefire M80 rail assembly. I stuck with the M80.

 

1. Have the option of mounting an Aimpoint T1 with a low LaRue mount

The best top rail bar none is the carriercomp replacement. It maintains the same rail height. Doesn't obstruct your iron sights. Uses the factory fasteners so you know they won't strip the receiver. Cheaper option than most. Prevents the installation of the SideArmor or Mesa top carriers.

 

2. mount a Surefire light.

The best setup I've found is the Surefire M600C on a GearSector offset mount attached to the Surefire M80 rail. Stick with the push button momentary/constant on tailcap.

 

3. Mount a shell carrier (6-8 shells)

The best setup is the velcro models from 3gunnergear. You can get multiple velcro carriers and rip the entire velcro carrier off and replace it with a full unit from a chest rig if needed. I like this solution because you're not relying on the top rail fasteners to secure the heavy shell carrier to the weapon. Impacts can cause stripping of the fine aluminum receiver threads. If you're dead set on getting an aluminum shell carrier, the SideArmor unit is the best. I would opt for the model with the sight channel cut. My old unit had the channel cut and I never had any issues with damaging the LaRue mounts. I would highly recommend going with the nylon unit though.

 

4. Mount a good two point sling

I used QD mounts and attached to the Surefire M80 rail via a GearSector mount. At the rear, I installed a Mesa Tactical Sling mount on my collapsible stock. I had put a QD mount on a fixed pistol grip stock previously. I bought one of the ambidextrous QD sling mounts from Magpul for their UBR. The QD cup is threaded, so I just bought a bolt long enough to go through the stock and into the QD sling cup. I added a washer on each side to spread the load. You can pretty much drill through any part of the stock that the recoil tube doesn't protrude though.

My sling is a BlueForceGear VCAS padded sling with QD ends. I'm still experimenting with sling point positions. Mounting the sling too far forward will obstruct your hand placement and access to the weapon light activation. I'm considering buying this part and pushing my GearSector QD sling mount further forward and out of the way of my weapon light:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=44716/Product/BENELLI-M4-BLAM-4-LIGHT-MOUNT

The jerk offs are never in stock though.

 

5. Mount a forward facing two shell carrier for slugs or emergency reloads

3gunner Gear has a nylon strap setup for this. However, the SideArmor unit would probably be better.

 

SideArmor setup

5359261997_d009dc9939_b.jpg

 

Surefire M80 setup

c015.jpg?t=1318050695

 

The Surefire M80 is a lighter setup. I had the lighter version of the Sidearmor rail that isn't sold anymore. The Mod 2 is heavier since you cannot remove the side rails. Without the center cut down the SideArmor rail, it will obstruct your iron sights. You'll barely see the top edge of the front sight over the rail. You can disassemble the weapon with the SideArmor unit in place. It is a little more complicated to disassemble though. Putting the bolt carrier group into the receiver is a two finger affair dangling it under the top rail. No tools are required to disassemble it though. I had issues with the attachment knob at the front loosening after a hundred rounds or so. No matter how tight I turned it.

 

A benefit of the SideArmor is you get to use the factory or FFT handguards which are more ergonomically pleasing in my opinion than the Surefire M80. The Surefire M80 pulls the light closer to the centerline of the weapon when a GearSector offset mount is used. On the SideArmor, it hangs off like a wall wart.

 

Given that you've made the weapon 922® compliant for even using a collapsible stock, I'd highly recommend getting one. The middle position works great for the Aimpoint T1. As the stock slides up the receiver extension, it presents a slightly higher cheek weld that is perfect for the higher mount. The fully extended position is identical in LOP to the fixed pistol grip stock. I would avoid the Urbino at this point until a newer version is released.

Edited by StrangerDanger

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This one is configured with most of the goodies on your Xmas list.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1131[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1132[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1130[/ATTACH]

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This one is configured with most of the goodies on your Xmas list.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1131[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1132[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1130[/ATTACH]

 

I lol everytime !

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I keep this one configured plain Jane just for you Bello !

Enjoy.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1138[/ATTACH]

 

now thats sexy!

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Thanks for the replies guys.

 

StrangerDanger - What don't you like about the Urbino stock with the riser? I agree that a higher cheek weld is needed for using an Aimpoint with this platform, but I'm not a fan of the collapsible stock Benelli sells. A guy at my gun club has one, and I've shot it. I really wish I could throw a comfort tech stock off of a Supersport on the M4. I just got my standard stock in the mail and I'm going to try that first before I make a decision; I just like the way the traditional stock handles on a shotgun for some reason. It's probably from shooting trap and skeet all the time when I was growing up.

 

As far as handguards are concerned, I was concerned about the way a light sits depending on what mount you use for either the Surefire, B&T or Sidearmor rail systems. I do like the FFT handguards since they're the most ergonomic, but I do need a way to mount a light and a sling better.

 

Has anyone had a problem with the 3 gungear side saddles in terms of durability? Does the velcro backing eventually peel off of the receiver and if so, how long do they last before that occurs?

 

Thanks!

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Dislikes of the Urbino:

I dislike the attachment method. It is a step backwards in design for the M4. The use of a screw to retain the stock is a poor design. The screw attaches to the end of the receiver extension. This threaded point free floats within the end of the receiver extension. If any type of thread locker is used, the fastener will seize to the threaded screw within the receiver extension. When you attempt to remove this screw, it will back the receiver extensions screw out with it. Then you're really screwed. People have had to cut their stock open to try to get their receiver extension threaded stock cap back. So locktite is bad on this stock. Others have had problems with the stock loosening during shooting without the aid of locktite.

 

On the factory stocks, this simply cannot happen. The stocks are screwed onto the receiver extension, then indexed and timed by the position of the trigger group. It's simple and effective. There are at least two of these events documented here on the Benelli Forum in the past few months. The company replaced the stock, but they were left to source the other items from Brownells that were damaged.

 

The pistol grips ergonomics are sub-par compared to the Benelli M4's factory stock options.

 

I've heard that limbsaver will fit one of their recoil pads to the M4. I never noticed much ergonomics difference between the collapsible stock and the factory pistol grip stock. If the standard stock works for you, use it.

 

If you prep the receiver with alcohol, I bet you won't have any issues with the 3gunnergear pealing off. I've never heard of anyone complaining about its durability.

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After playing with a lot of stuff, I think that the VERY LIGHTEST way that you can add a light, add a red-dot, and up the magazine capacity is the best way to go.

 

To me, this means a light mount for an X300, a T1, Kip's rail, Kips Ti mag-tube, and a 3-gunnergear side-saddle velcroed/stuck on.

 

After a few days at the range or walking around with it, you will like this SO MUCH more than some aftermarket huge rail, massive Surefire saddle, etc. etc. etc.

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Unobtanium

 

I have made a total of three(2 personal) attempts ((now not a peep) since early october to contact Cleeford (re) his disconnector. Can you help?

Thanks

ME163

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After playing with a lot of stuff, I think that the VERY LIGHTEST way that you can add a light, add a red-dot, and up the magazine capacity is the best way to go.

 

To me, this means a light mount for an X300, a T1, Kip's rail, Kips Ti mag-tube, and a 3-gunnergear side-saddle velcroed/stuck on.

 

After a few days at the range or walking around with it, you will like this SO MUCH more than some aftermarket huge rail, massive Surefire saddle, etc. etc. etc.

 

I'm thinking you and StrangerDanger are right. I was just worried about how durable the 3gungear velcro system is. Granted, I'm not taking the gun into harms way, but I may take it to Gunsite for their shotgun class some day or a Magpul class if they ever come back to Indiana.

 

The Surefire X300 is awesome. After taking Larry Vicker's carbine class, it's exactly what I'm running on my M4 carbine in conjunction with a DD 12" FSP Lite handguard with the Surefire on top in front of the sight post. It's the best way to mount a light for the carbine. I wish Surefire would could out with a set of handguards with an integrated light and accessory rail for a sling and 2 shell pack.

 

For handguards, I'm leaning towards the B&T, and I can install it since I will still have a US made mag follower, hammer and magazine tube. Looking at photos online, I like the B&T because it looks like it will be easy to add that 2 shell forward facing holder on the right and a sling mount on the left. I'm going to install a standard stock that I just got late last week and shoot it this weekend to see if I like it better than the pistol grip stock.

 

Thanks guys

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Unobtanium

 

I have made a total of three(2 personal) attempts ((now not a peep) since early october to contact Cleeford (re) his disconnector. Can you help?

Thanks

ME163

 

Sorry. I missed your post. I didn't know a disconnector was available yet. I know he's selling the hammer now:

 

http://shop.carriercomp.com/product.sc?productId=15&categoryId=5

 

Geissele makes it. A disconnector would be nice to push the part count back around 4 if I go with a foreign made handguard again. Never can be to safe I guess.

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I just got my B&T rail today. It looks nice and the way it sits in your hand is nice as well. My only concern is how it locks up against the barrel. There is a single clamp that mates the barrel to the handguard, in addition to the handguard retainer. If I place a light and a sling mount, I'm just concerned I'll place to much stress on the handguard retainer. Is this a valid concern or am I paranoid? I'm not so sure the barrel clamp stays on the barrel fairly well now that I've played with a little bit.

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How long did it take to get your B&T rail in from the time you placed your order?

 

No more than a few business days as I live in Indiana and DSA is in IL. It did take them the majority of the time just to ship it though; it only took UPS one day to deliver it to Indy from N. IL by ground though.

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