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Perfect example why the AR-15/M4/M-16 is a genuine...


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...POS. (hint: it sh*ts where it eats)

 

Good thing he had comrades around him to keep the bad guys away, otherwise he would have been toast for sure.

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95d_1323928078

 

I am not on board with the video: might have missed it, but one of the fundamental methods of applying immediate action is to tap the forward assist.

 

Don't know, but who was filming and why? Where is his Kevlar helmet? His ACU looks starched, did you ever see him tap the forward assist?

Edited by crofton
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I was wondering where his helmet was, but I do know that not all troops wear them.

 

I did see him hit the FA a number of times, but not consistently. I don't think anyone was behind the camera, it was merely fixed on him apparently.

 

I also noticed that when he reloads he pulls back on the charging handle to release the bolt rather than pressing the forward release button on the side.

 

I would expect someone to hit the bolt release for an emergency reload as it gets you in the action quicker. In fact, I would say a couple times he rides the bolt home rather than releasing it which can also create a stoppage.

His muzzle awareness seems to be lacking too.

 

His patch is from the 101st.

 

He does not appear to be a well trained soldier. I would guess he is a REMF who is unfamiliar with the weapon.

Of course these are my personal opinions.

Edited by crofton
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That video was crap and so was the guy trying to shoot . He didn't have a clue . Can say cluster f%*K ? He was a complete mess . Probably dosen't know how to maintain his weapon either . Marcus Lutrell & 3 team members held off 150-200 Taliban with there M16's for hours . I never have these issues with my LWRCI SPR !! Why was his ACU spotless , and even looked folded with seams ?

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...POS. (hint: it sh*ts where it eats)

 

Good thing he had comrades around him to keep the bad guys away, otherwise he would have been toast for sure.

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95d_1323928078

 

Fail to maintain any weapon/get a bunch of dirt in it, and it will give you problems in that environment.

 

The soldier firing the platform is not very proficient with it. The mag is empty, he views it as a jam. He chambers a new round, and rides the CH home every time. Etc. At best, I would bet he can hit his targets to qualify, and knows to keep his booger-hook off the trigger until it's game-time. The rest of the actions he takes in the video certainly don't peg him as proficient at manipulating the weapon, and I am guessing his maintenance is not stellar, either. He has no understanding of the mechanics of a firearm it seems. Several times he looks at his M4 like he has never seen it before. Just watch the video and look on his face. It's like he's examining something from another planet in slack-jawed wonder.

 

What do you expect his firearm to perform like?

 

The truth is, after a massive survey was conducted, 89% of the troops are pleased with the M4 platform. The fact that 89% of a LARGE amount of enlisted agree on ANYTHING is a miracle in and of itself.

 

As you have already noted, he had comrads around him--and they didn't have any problems that we know of. Wonder why?

 

Another thing you might find interesting is the vast number of people who saw combat in Iraq/Afghanistan that own AR's stateside. If they felt the weapon sucked, why buy it now that they have a choice? They are the one's you are trying to say are having a problem with it, and they are the ones that keep buying them here. The logic isn't tracking.

 

It's obvious you dislike the AR platform, but if you're going to attack it, use fact and data, not Youtube videos of some guy who barely understands which end the fast-moving thing comes out of (although the way he waves it around...)

 

Anyway, two can play at the Youtube video game. Here is a guy in a nice, non-dusty, controlled environment, trying to enjoy his AK.

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ec2_1222472051

 

Here is another unfortunate AK-47 user:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b1c_1311092968

Edited by Unobtanium
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I don't know if I'd call this soldier a "REMF" or "clusterf_ck", but his weapon handling was definitely poor. The first thing I picked up on was that he was riding the bolt home with the charging handle. That's a good way to cause a malfunction. And if you're doing that, what else are you doing (or not doing) to the carbine? His shouldering was inconsistant too. My guess is that, since he's not taking his weapon manipulation seriously, he's probably not taking his weapon maintenance seriously either.

 

I don't know the guy, but I'd probably want to drill him if I had to share a fighting hole with him. On the other hand, I'm just a salty old Marine veteran who doesn't have to fight over in the 'stan, so it is easy for me to sit here on my computer and critique.

Edited by LeoAtrox
meh
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What you're seeing here is fear and the user falling back on his training, or lack there of. During extreme fear/stress, everyone falls to their level of training. These failures in equipment are supposed to be found during a training environment if it is truly a maintenance or user failing.

 

I do not fault him at all. Hopefully he took from this engagement a new found issue to address. Certainly his immediate supervisor should make sure that is the case.

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Seriously?

 

You take one example...and an example where we know aboslutely nothing about the weapon in question and that is your justification for saying that the whole entire weapon system is a POS? That's like me saying this article on the BCM Filthy 14...

 

http://www.slip2000.com/art-swat2.html

 

...proves that the AR platform is the best out there and far superior to ANYTHING else.

 

You can find good and bad examples on any platform out there. ANY PLATFORM. And I'm not saying the AR is good...or bad. But if you're going to make such an accusation...that an entire platform is a POS...you should at least be able to back it up with a lot more substantial data than that ridiculous link you posted.

 

Geez. What a troll. You took 5 minutes of my life and I want it back!

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...proves that the AR platform is the best out there and far superior to ANYTHING else.

 

lulz...there are some seriously deluded people in the world. The sort of failures seen in the video in the OP just are not seen in the FAL, AK, SKS, or M-14 (M-1A) under circumstances which one would expect where a weapon's maintenance is neglected for days/weeks at a time (which one can fully expect in a SHTF/emergency scenario) - and not to mention the problems associated with using a mouse caliber in the first place.

 

the M16 is the most...efficient rifle ever used by the military.

 

hahahahaha - this said about a rifle that sh*ts where it eats...some people will make up ANYTHING to justify their inexcusable failure to exercise intelligence or sound judgment

Edited by Sukhoi_fan
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I wasn't a fan of the AR15/M16 platform, untill I used them throughout my 20 years in the military. After that, I liked it so much I got an AR-15 (as soon as I got back to the states), and later (after I retired) an M-16A1, and have fired thousands of rounds reliebly. The only FTF I ever had was due to a new 10" BBL that was advertised 5.56 but turned out to be 223 (caused it to pop primers). Once I reamed it out to 5.56 it functioned flawlessly again. One FTF in all my experience is enough proof for me to grab it first if the SHTF (and I've got some pretty reliable sub guns). I'll always go with my personal experience over some third hand stories, but that's just me. I also think that if the SHTF for real, finding NATO rounds will be easier than non NATO rounds (after I go through the 8,000 rounds I have stockpiled :) Not to mention spare parts if needed. But to each his own, I’m not worried about what anyone else decides to get, and I haven’t had any bad experiences with the other assult rifles mentioned.

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I wasn't a fan of the AR15/M16 platform, untill I used them throughout my 20 years in the military. After that, I liked it so much I got an AR-15 (as soon as I got back to the states), and later (after I retired) an M-16A1, and have fired thousands of rounds reliebly. The only FTF I ever had was due to a new 10" BBL that was advertised 5.56 but turned out to be 223 (caused it to pop primers). Once I reamed it out to 5.56 it functioned flawlessly again. One FTF in all my experience is enough proof for me to grab it first if the SHTF (and I've got some pretty reliable sub guns). I'll always go with my personal experience over some third hand stories, but that's just me. I also think that if the SHTF for real, finding NATO rounds will be easier than non NATO rounds (after I go through the 8,000 rounds I have stockpiled :) Not to mention spare parts if needed. But to each his own, I’m not worried about what anyone else decides to get, and I haven’t had any bad experiences with the other assult rifles mentioned.

 

You and nearly every other "gun guy" who ever served that I have met.

 

If it were a POS, all my friends who came back from Afghanistan that actually saw action would not have bought or built one. Same for all the other guys we see on line, in person at the range, etc.

 

Sukhoi, even your user-name suggests an affinity for Russian things, and that's fine. I admire their stuff, too. However, the efficacy of their weapons does not devalue by default ours.

 

What is your PERSONAL experience, either performed, or witnessed by you, with the M4 platform?

 

Further, how hard is it to maintain an AR? They don't need to be spotless clean, just well lubed. Every vehicle you see has 3-12 or more quarts of lubricant just waiting for you, should the need arise.

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lulz...there are some seriously deluded people in the world. The sort of failures seen in the video in the OP just are not seen in the FAL, AK, SKS, or M-14 (M-1A) under circumstances which one would expect where a weapon's maintenance is neglected for days/weeks at a time (which one can fully expect in a SHTF/emergency scenario) - and not to mention the problems associated with using a mouse caliber in the first place.

 

 

 

hahahahaha - this said about a rifle that sh*ts where it eats...some people will make up ANYTHING to justify their inexcusable failure to exercise intelligence or sound judgment

 

Do you have any real experience, or just Youtube and Liveleak videos with 0 background story?

 

You can post jamming AR's, I can post jamming AK's. What's your point?

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The AR platform itself is good and can be configured to meet damn near any demmand one might have. But the DI system they use is dirty and has been rendered obsolete by modern piston driven systems. I don't give two shits what anyone says the piston system is better, cleaner and could be implemented into service with ease. The new trials require a piston driven system to be used and the old M4A1 isn't even allowed to participate. I think it's fair to assume that this is due to the fact that modern systems will prove what a POS the old DI system is and if it isn't there no one can say I told you so.

 

In the end it's a shame that it has taken this long but hopefully our fighting men and women will soon have better tools in their hands.

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The AR platform itself is good and can be configured to meet damn near any demmand one might have. But the DI system they use is dirty and has been rendered obsolete by modern piston driven systems. I don't give two shits what anyone says the piston system is better, cleaner and could be implemented into service with ease. The new trials require a piston driven system to be used and the old M4A1 isn't even allowed to participate. I think it's fair to assume that this is due to the fact that modern systems will prove what a POS the old DI system is and if it isn't there no one can say I told you so.

 

In the end it's a shame that it has taken this long but hopefully our fighting men and women will soon have better tools in their hands.

 

I disagree.

 

First, piston systems pre-date the M16/M4 platform in the M1A and M14 and AK-47. It's the DI that is "Modern", not the piston.

 

Second, Pistons are dirty, too. They just spew the crap in a different place.

 

Third, What "new trials" are you talking about? Link, please?

 

Fourth, if you have ever shot suppressed with a properly gassed M4 (Noveske SB, purpose-drilled port, etc.) and then with a piston system, you will be able to appreciate the DI system. Piston guns, even in the "correct" setting have poor timing, as compared to a properly gassed DI system. The result is a DIRTIER chamber, etc. than the DI weapon due to the premature un-locking of the bolt and the back-wash of the gas into the chamber from the barrel as the suppressor has slowed the pressure drop. The only way you could appreciate this is by crunching a bunch of numbers...or actually shooting both and comparing them. Plenty of people have. They no-longer like suppressed piston guns as much. Since most of my shooting is going to be suppressed, I don't care how the weapon does unsuppressed nearly as much. You may very well feel differently.

 

Fifth, user maintenance is more important than DI vs. Piston. Without cleaning, a proper DI system that has some lube shot onto the BCG every 5-600 rounds will run until the barrel is burned out. It's been proven time and again. 1500-2000 rounds for a carbine course without cleaning is common-place, and the guns keep running. Pat Rogers took it to an extreme with over 15,000 rounds and nothing more than more lube to keep it wet.

 

Sixth. I can support all of my claims with personal testimony, data, testimony of others, etc. I respect your right to your own claims, but until you can support them, they do not have any weight in my opinion.

 

DI vs. Piston Suppressed: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/357626_Noveske_Switchblock____user_s_impression_experience_wanted.html&page=2

 

15,000+ rounds, and other testimony about other round-counts without cleaning: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/943471_.html (The link to Pat Rogers is verified, the rest are hear-say)

 

Piston=OLD, DI=New, well, I don't think I need a link to the cut-away and date of introduction of the M1A to prove the point.

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I don't care how long piston systems have been in use beyond the platform being discussed. Just like it doesn't matter about what you think of DI vs PD when suppressed as last I checked standard issue weapons weren't suppressed let alone desired.

 

And after owning a DI and PD at the same time anyone who says the PD gets just as dirty is full of ****. Most piston systems vent gasses behind or infront of the front sight which is nothing compared to 20% of gasses being dumped into the reciever. I'd also like to add that the lube I applied before my 500rd outting was still there on my PD AR. Had I done the same with my DI it would've been a single shot weapon.

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I don't care how long piston systems have been in use beyond the platform being discussed. Just like it doesn't matter about what you think of DI vs PD when suppressed as last I checked standard issue weapons weren't suppressed let alone desired.

 

My weapon will be suppressed. That's what I care about. Also, Surefire and AAC both just won multi-million dollar contracts to suppress quite a few rifles that are issued.

 

And after owning a DI and PD at the same time anyone who says the PD gets just as dirty is full of ****. Most piston systems vent gasses behind or infront of the front sight which is nothing compared to 20% of gasses being dumped into the reciever. I'd also like to add that the lube I applied before my 500rd outting was still there on my PD AR. Had I done the same with my DI it would've been a single shot weapon.

 

What kind of lube are you using? What DI and what Piston AR did you have? I have used rem-oil and fired more than 500 rounds without a re-lube, and that stuff is JUNK.

 

Plenty of people have lubed once, and shot 1000+ rounds on it. I can link you to testimony after testimony of such.

 

Pistons are a trade-off. More junk to break, less junk in the upper--unless you are suppressed, then variable DI is king.

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What kind of lube are you using? What DI and what Piston AR did you have? I have used rem-oil and fired more than 500 rounds without a re-lube, and that stuff is JUNK.

 

Plenty of people have lubed once, and shot 1000+ rounds on it. I can link you to testimony after testimony of such.

 

Pistons are a trade-off. More junk to break, less junk in the upper--unless you are suppressed, then variable DI is king.

 

 

What lube I used doesn't matter as claiming that a DI will fire 1000+ times with no oil burn off or a half pound of **** in the reciver/bolt/carrier is bogus. It really comes down to the fact that a PD runs cooler, cleaner and longer than it's DI counterpart, period.

 

As for a parts count DI vs PD you might want to take one apart because it uses less parts than a DI gun.

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What lube I used doesn't matter as claiming that a DI will fire 1000+ times with no oil burn off or a half pound of **** in the reciver/bolt/carrier is bogus. It really comes down to the fact that a PD runs cooler, cleaner and longer than it's DI counterpart, period.

 

As for a parts count DI vs PD you might want to take one apart because it uses less parts than a DI gun.

 

I never said it wouldn't have "oil-burn-off". I said it would keep going "bang" when you pulled the trigger 1000+ times between lubing it. I can find plenty of evidence to support that, too.

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I never said it wouldn't have "oil-burn-off". I said it would keep going "bang" when you pulled the trigger 1000+ times between lubing it. I can find plenty of evidence to support that, too.

 

And I've seen guys bury Glocks in mud and fire it but I'll never do it to mine. In any case your trying to make an argument for an inferior system and there isn't one. But since were on the subject I might as well add that a DI gun fired 1000+ times would need a complete cleaning of the chamber, bolt, barrel and carrier. A PD model would just need a wipe down and a brush down the barrel.

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