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Illegal CCW in MN???


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Here's a hypothetical: (Hopefully answered by a lawyer or someone who knows.)

 

Let's say your a bouncer at a bar in MN, that has a no gun sign up. You end up getting in a situation where you shoot someone.....even if it's justifiable homicide, will you get in trouble b/c you had a gun at a bar that had a sign up????

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Hypothetically/logically: If by the state law you have rights to carry on a gun, I don’t think a single bar’s policy should have a power over it.

 

[ 05-24-2006, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: garren ]

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Does have CCW permit.

 

So I forgot to add that, lets say the person does have a CCW permit.

 

Kicks the guy out of the bar and the guy who got kicked out, goes home and comes back with a gun. (Like what happened in Mpls, in which the kicked out guy, shot and killed the bouncer, recently.)

 

So the guy gets past police like he did in the case in Mpls and comes to shoot the bouncer. The bouncer shoots him to defend his life. I know the sign at the bar so "NO GUNS ALLOWED". So what happens now?

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The bouncer loses his job, but keeps his life.

The sign at the bar is a rule for the bar patrons and employees (unless the bouncer wishes to ask his employer for an exception), it is not a law and is therefore not prosecutable by the state.

 

[ 05-24-2006, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: tucker301 ]

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The "No Guns Allowed" is just a private business law.

 

Last I checked, if a private business places a sign in their own establishment, the content of the sign does not become a law.

 

If a real law is being broken, then a sign is irrelevant.

 

What happens here in Cali is most affected businesses enter into an agency agreement with local LE to enforce their private business laws or to come on to their private premises and enforce a local regulation.

 

This is most commonly applied in cases of loitering, trespassing, public intoxication, disorderly conduct, etc. LE can make the arrest and removal on their own, but it is much easier to simply respond to a request of private business owner.

 

There may be CCW laws broken though. A bouncer may lose his CCW for bringing the gun into a privately restricted area.

 

mudhen - CA

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Originally posted by garren:

Hypothetically/logically: If by the state law you have rights to carry on a gun, I don’t think a single bar’s policy should have a power over it.

In some places you have to follow the dressing code. If you don't agree or feel uncomfortable you should find another place to hang out. If bar’s policy doesn't permit guns on their territory, you must respect their rights, but however, if somehow you sneaked in, everything said above is right.

 

[ 05-24-2006, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: garren ]

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MN law states that: Private establishments - if posted or if personally requested to leave by the operator because that establishment bans guns on premises.

Places of employment, public or private, if employer restricts the carry or possession of firearms by its employees.

 

MN has specific laws about the posting as well:2) "Prominently" means readily visible and within four feet laterally of the entrance with the bottom of the sign at a height of four to six feet above the floor.

(3) "Conspicuous" means lettering in black arial typeface at least 1-1/2 inches in height against a bright contrasting background that is at least 187 square inches in area.

(4) "Private establishment" means a building, structure, or portion thereof that is owned, leased, controlled, or operated by a nongovernmental entity for a nongovernmental purpose.

 

So if the employer has a sign that meets the states sign standards you will be prosecuted for carrying illegally and most assuredly for homicide. It happens all the time. If you kill someone with or without a CCW you will always have to prove it was justifiable.

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A few minutes away in Michigan, CCW's cannot be taken into a few different places. Anywhere that sells/merchandises/serves alcohol....any government owned/operated facility.......and schools.

 

Wisconsin simply has an "No CCW" law, unless you are a judge or a member of LE in some capacity. People like me would have to prove before a court that I actually had a "need" for a CCW, then do all the paperwork (approx a cubic butt-load.)

 

That site that Jak posted is pretty informative.

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Just watch, the family of tha kill person will sue the bar owner, says that the man would not have started the fight in the bar if he had know the bouncer (an employee) had a gun. That was prohibited, by the bar owner (employer).

 

It goes along with the same idea as when a store owner was sued by a woman that was attacked in the stores parking lot late one night. The security cameras that watch over the parking lot were all fake ones.

 

The woman clamed that IF she had known the cameras were fake, she would not have gone to the store at night. She won a whole lot of money.

 

Being shot to death in a "no guns allowed" bar by one of its employees no less, would fall into the same sinnaireo (sp?). A business presenting a false sence of security.

 

Will they win? chances are , right or wrong, some "get lost" money will be paid to the family.

 

[ 05-26-2006, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Russ F. ]

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Well, if a burglar can break into your house, become injured inside your house, and still sue you for damages........what does that say about our legal system? I'm quite sure that the family mentioned will be paid off.

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