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Elzetta Z-STK Buttstock Sling Swivel Kit.


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The Wilson QD Mount looks good for a rail attachment point. It would work well on a legacy rail system. It certainly helps address the receiver roll encountered by stacking mounts on top of wide bodied rail systems.

 

I'll post some past pictures of other M4 designs I have had in the past to help you decide what route to go. I've had two versions of the SideArmor. The Surefire M80 multiple times. Custom mounting solutions and now the AVA Tactical. I've had the Mesa Tactical rear mounts in the past as well.

 

I use a Vickers PB Padded Sling for my M4. It's comfortable during long desert/mountain hiking. The Mesa Collapsible stock mount is terrible. Even when I modified the grip core and made it a low mount socket, it still caused a lot of receiver roll. It would also gouge you in the back when carrying the weapon slung behind your back. There were no limited rotation stops either, so it would tangle easily. It was essentially the only option available for the collapsible stock until I found the IWC mount and took the chance of mounting it. Mounting it on the right side does away with the negative aspects of a tail mounted sling point. Mainly the restrictions most users face when shooting the weapon when slung. If the sling was mounted to the left side, it would bunch the sling up between your chest and prevent you from pulling the stock into the pocket of your shoulder effectively. Movement would also be heavily restricted. The weapon has a tendency to feel like it is rolling away from your body as well.

 

The Vickers PD Padded sling has an adjustment tab that is easy to use. I set it so that when I tighten the tab, I can restrict any movement of the weapon. This is perfect for when you're utility carrying the weapon behind your back. The weapon doesn't try to swing around your body and end up in front of you. The taught sling keeps it where you put it. It would be hard for the weapon to swing in front of you if you're carrying a strong side holster. The shotgun is held behind you by the holster. This is awesome if you're hiking or rock scrambling. You can also carry the weapon in front of you with the sling taught. This will pull the weapon against your chest and severely limit movement. You would not be able to shoulder the weapon until you released the slack by simply pulling the adjustment tab.

 

Receiver roll is not your friend. It will make carrying any weapon a miserable situation. I always HATED the way the M4 was slung. I guess it doesn't really matter if you just go stand at a square range. You'd probably be better off with no sling at all in this kind of situation. I tried various slings in the past, from the 3 point tangled knot systems to things like the Magpul MS3 which was a pendulum of pain. Keeping the weapon as light as possible with a quality padded adjustable 2 point sling is what I finally settled on.

 

Front QD sling mount options just recently matured. The rail mounted options just aren't very good in my opinion. I tried GearSector and the Daniel Defense QD mounts with limited rotation stops present. The mounts were fine, but the receiver roll was difficult to control. It always felt like the pistol grip was digging into my back as a result. When I finally gave the middle finger to the Surefire M80 rail, I had to come up with a new mounting solution for the QD mount. I installed a IWC QD socket into a FFT handguard I purchased. The solution worked reasonably well, but I did not trust a plastic mount. I feel a solid hit would pull the handguard out of position. So I Macgyvered the BLAM4 mount into something useful for the first time in it's existence. I drilled a half inch hole thru the steel bracket to mount an IWC QD Mount with limited rotation stops. I then cut off the excess amount of the bracket and the legacy sling loop on the opposite side. I back filled the holes with either JB Weld or epoxy. I deburred the entire piece with a file then had the unit Cerakoted Black (besides the actual IWC mount.) This mount works extremely well. The only reason I removed it is due to the existence of the AVA Tactical mount.

 

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Look Ma', no hands.

 

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As close to a selfie as I'm getting. Note how the QD mount is attached to the right hand side of the stock. This helps a lot to control receiver roll. I've begun incorporating a similar carry method across the board for my rifle platforms with excellent results.

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Disheartened by the options available, I made my own light mounting solution and QD connector.

 

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Finally leading up to the final platform solution. The Ava Mount does away with all the BS. Eliminated the need for custom work, heavy rail system and uncomfortable handguards. It provides a much more solid mounting point. I don't have any concerns about whacking the weapon and breaking anything. For a price point, the AVA Tactical mount was much much cheaper than anything I ever spent my money on.

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I am starting a C-stock QD project myself. Just waiting for the gg&g rear HK sling loop plate to arrive. It does not fit because the locking nut cannot be adjusted on the C-stock pistol grip. I will shave off an equal amount of polymer off the base of the pistol grip to equal the thickness of the sling loop plate. Next, I already have an extra PPM SCAR QD swivel to attach to the loop. Hopefully this will help with sling roll effect. I will post photos and review when finished.

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Oooh. Cool idea.

 

I know IWC is also developing a SCAR QD as well that presumably would work in that sling loop.

 

Interested to hear how that turns out. Shaving down the poly to accomodate that sounds like a solid plan. I presume you've pulled the parts off and looked at them to determine that you can shave them down etc? Shaving it down would prevent a gap behind the trigger guard as well.

 

Is that PPM rotation limited? It appears so from that picture.

 

I like SD's setup for two point sling, this might be better than the flush grip core if you have to have single point.

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Interested to hear how that turns out. Shaving down the poly to accomodate that sounds like a solid plan. I presume you've pulled the parts off and looked at them to determine that you can shave them down etc? Shaving it down would prevent a gap behind the trigger guard as well.

 

Is that PPM rotation limited? It appears so from that picture.

 

 

Yes, the PMM is rotational limited, and there is plenty of room to shave down the pistol grip. I am expecting a flush fit. When I installed the Mesa QD, I purchased an extra factory pistol grip, locking block, and roll pin for about $60 in case I wanted to go back to the factory setup without having a hole or pretruding bolt. Your AVA mount is the best thing since sliced bread.

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Mechanically, do you know how you are going to remove the material? With a mill you could ensure the resulting surface and especially the edges are proper and pleasing. But access to a mill for that isn't available to everyone.

 

If not a mill, it could be filed and sanded but it would have to be done with care of course.

 

Glad the mount is working out!

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I use this elzetta sling mount on my M4 c-stocks and have found it to be very sturdy. An additional plus is that you have a sling mount on each side of your stock. It fits with no modification to stock and is very easy to install. I also use the VLTOR SMQ-OCG quick disconnect offset flashlight mount on my M4 with Sidearmor entry rails. I cannot use the AVA with the Sidearmor system. I use the AVA mount on another M4 and it is a wonderful mount, and I highly recommend it.

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Cool project! I wasn't aware those mounts existed. Hope you're doing the cuts with a mill. It would be really difficult to maintain a level cut with files and even a sanding block. It is doable though. You'd have to build a miter box of sorts that prevented you from filing/sanding below a set point. You'd need two hardened parallels in the vice clamped to the left and right side with the work surface facing upward. You'd have to make absolutely certain that the work piece was perfectly aligned with the parallels.

 

If you find that your face is too close to the QD socket or the sling is bunching up in your face, you could install it so that the QD socket is over the receiver instead.

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Thanks for all the great advice, I am new at performing custom modifications to my firearms. I end up buying and selling accessories like no tomorrow, always looking for that gem that will stand the test of time and hardship of field use. I do not have a mill yet, but will do as SD suggested with miter box and vice. Thanks again and I'll keep everyone posted.

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Might be difficult, one way I managed to sand specific face surface recently is I used a dremel to make a hollow in a section of 2x4 and put my work piece in the hollow created. Then screwed another 2x4 section to the top of that to secure it all. The hollow was less deep than the part but a smidge to make sure it could be sandwiched.

 

The face you want to cut would stick out of this fixture and you could use the guides on a bench sander to ensure your engagement angle.

 

However this assumes it can be rigged in the fixture level, or you can level the entire rig. More importantly that the entire face would be flat after sanding.

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I just pulled the grip on my c-stock vert grip and that method should work well. If wasn't so tied up with other projects, etc I'd try this myself. You would need a bench sander with a miter gauge and table adjustable for tilt so the face is square or you will need to square the face in the jig before you start sanding.

 

A mill would of course be better, but I'd be confident I could get this to work. I have a porter cable bench sander I could do it on.

 

EDIT: And if I did it this way, I'd mark the piece for the amount I'd take off, but I'd check it very often before I got to the line. One axis is unimportant, second axis is controlled by your miter, 3rd axis is the face being square with the sanding surface which you either do with table title or you have to square your jig by sanding it first.

 

Only last concern is the shape of the GG*G plate. I'd have to have one in hand and marked on the grip to understand where all material would have to come off. Ideally it would appear to be inlaid on the grip and it has a shape you may have to profile with a dremel on the lower parts. Purely aesthetic though. If you get the face up top where it rests flat it will function.

Edited by AVATactical.com
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I just pulled the grip on my c-stock vert grip and that method should work well.

A mill would of course be better ...

 

Have been looking at my c-stock (not yet installed) to see how this would work. Its a simple job with a mill - I'd be looking for a local machine shop to do this. I could do it in 15 min on Bridgeport and I am just minimally competent on this machine. After watching a video of how the pistol grip goes on, it would appear that removing material from the pistol grip would need to be done with some precision to get the grip to index properly, but I may not yet fully understand this.

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I use this elzetta sling mount on my M4 c-stocks and have found it to be very sturdy. An additional plus is that you have a sling mount on each side of your stock. It fits with no modification to stock and is very easy to install. I also use the VLTOR SMQ-OCG quick disconnect offset flashlight mount on my M4 with Sidearmor entry rails. I cannot use the AVA with the Sidearmor system. I use the AVA mount on another M4 and it is a wonderful mount, and I highly recommend it.

 

I ordered one of these and installed it.

 

Ambidextrous which is a plus over the IWC.

 

One thing t note is that it is NOT rotation limited and I think the IWC might be as most of their products are.

 

Personally, I like the lack of rotational lock in this particular use since it moves freely as I transition from slung to shouldered, etc. I haven't ran it yet, just slung the weapon, etc. So this is very preliminary.

 

I appreciate the information.

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