Benelli M4 -- Shop Services

[StrangerDanger]

I'm happy to say that carriercomp has selected me my shop to be their designated installer for their magazine tubes and other accessories.

[BigHat]

Glad to see you doing this work. You're going to save a number of people some headaches for sure. I'm going to PM you about a Cerakote job. You breaking down/ reassembling the shotguns around the coating work? I'd feel more comfortable knowing you were handling that piece of the effort.

[StrangerDanger]

Bighat,

Yep. I've done a few of the M4's for clients who want someone to get in between the coating company and them. I feel the same way about having a general gunsmith do the reassembly. There are a lot of areas that are botched and overlooked on the M4 when it comes to properly reassembling the weapon. Lots of potential fail with the receiver extension and various fasteners in and around the weapon. Improper torque specifications being followed or not even bothered with. Incorrect use of Loctite products and primers to ensure the best, reversible hold on fasteners.

 

My only caution is, while I am fast at what I do, coating and painting places are notoriously slow. I have a large batch of parts in with Robar right now since November. They indicate it won't likely be returned until the end of February.

 

As slow as they are, they do have the best coating solution out there in my experience. They even offer the ability to paint the exterior other colors so you aren't stuck with a matte nickel finish.

 

They also do as I ask, and coat extremely small parts for corrosion resistance and cosmetic appeal. I have done a few OEM collapsible stock's that have the body, screws and all metal parts coated so that they matched the H20 version of the M4.

 

 

[StrangerDanger]

On another topic, my friend and business associate in Australia reported to me the other day some exploits with the Benelli M4 I assembled for him. As well as being a licensed dealer in Australia, he owns an invasive species eradication company in New Queensland. While most control is conducted via controlled poisons, many of the animals are dispatched with firearms. The feral pigs that are causing significant amounts of crop losses and causing damage to waterways are dispatched with the Benelli M4. Primarily 2 3/4" buckshot. My friend indicates that in almost all cases, these are one shot kills on various size pigs up to around 250 - 300 pounds.

 

He indicated that the M4 has performed flawlessly since deployment. Not a single failure has been encountered. This M4 started out life as a factory H20. I then took various parts and aftermarket components and coated them in NP3 to match the H2O. This M4 has a Scalarwork's top rail with a Trijicon RMR RM06 optic along with an Ava Tactical weapon light. Trigger pack was upgraded with a TTI shell elevator, TTI oversized safety, FFT Trigger, FFT Disconnector and a Geissele Hammer. The entire trigger pack itself was coated in NP3. The trigger pack felt and functioned incredibly smooth.

 

The only part avoided was the Geissele Hammer. I had concerns about tolerance stacking of the NP3, these concerns have been unfounded so far. In the future, I think I'm going to coat the hammer as well to reduce the friction coefficient between the bolt carrier and the hammer during the cycle.

 

Yes, even the screws that hold the RMR to the rail were coated in NP3.

[StrangerDanger]

Something a little different. Just got these parts in on Friday along with a 100 other parts.

 

The bottom bolt, extractor, extractor retaining pin, firing pin, cam pin and firing pin retainer were coated in NP3+. These components had several thousand rounds on them prior to refinishing. You can hear the difference when letting the bolt slam shut.

 

This is a carriercomp titanium magazine tube that was coated in NP3+. Robar claims the process doesn't adhere to the titanium very well. In some degree, they are correct, the finish isn't cosmetically perfect in various areas. Naturally this tube is bound for an H20.

 

In this same batch, I had a receiver extension coated in NP3+. I swapped it out of one of my personal M4's. Instant change in the way the action feels. It slid a notch closer to feeling like the action is riding on ball bearings. One could argue that reliability would be increased when firing lower dram rounds as the friction coefficient is lowered. Couple a receiver, receiver extension, recoil plunger, bolt carrier, bolt, bolt cam, link, link pin, hammer, breech latch, trigger bushing, and bolt coated in NP3+; and you'll have the smoothest cycling action achievable. Not to mention incredibly easy to clean.

 

I'm receiving a client's 11715 later today. It's going to be fully disassembled down to the smallest pins and springs (everything that isn't riveted in place at least.) Even the ARGO plugs will be disassembled for coating. All items including accessories will be packaged and sorted by group and sent to Robar for coating in NP3+.

Edited February 8, 2016 by StrangerDanger

[StrangerDanger]

Ran into a new problem recently for a client. His M4 was going full auto on him when firing. As much fun as that sounds, it wasn't reliable. Most of the time the hammer would fall and ride the bolt carrier into battery, leaving you with a live round in the chamber and the hammer down.

 

I had the owner send the trigger pack in for me to inspect. I found the trigger itself was defective. The area near the disconnector was out of spec and causing the disconnector to fail. The hammer sear would barely grab onto the disconnector when holding the trigger to the rear and cocking the hammer. The hammer would easily slip past the hook and drop.

[00stormbringer]

Ran into a new problem recently for a client. His M4 was going full auto on him when firing. As much fun as that sounds, it wasn't reliable. Most of the time the hammer would fall and ride the bolt carrier into battery, leaving you with a live round in the chamber and the hammer down.

 

I had the owner send the trigger pack in for me to inspect. I found the trigger itself was defective. The area near the disconnector was out of spec and causing the disconnector to fail. The hammer sear would barely grab onto the disconnector when holding the trigger to the rear and cocking the hammer. The hammer would easily slip past the hook and drop.

 

Was it the OEM or FFT trigger?

[StrangerDanger]

OEM trigger surprisingly. Not sure how it could have possibly made it out of the factory functioning like that. It was a situation where the trigger had too much material around the disconnector. So it was not likely to have been something someone modified.

[M1014]

reading all the posts,very impressive,wish you where around when I had my M1014,,when I get another one,,I'll certainlly will go to you,congrats on your new Benelli venture,,a great service to all our Benelli brothers and sisters,,thanks

[StrangerDanger]

Thanks! I recall way back when when we were brainstorming modifying existing receiver extensions to make the stock collapse. Glad we don't have to do that crap anymore!

[trob09]

while 'accidental full auto' sounds cool, it can also have severe legal consequences. I had an aftermarket trigger in my SCAR which became a burst-fire trigger after a thousand rounds or so. All I could think of was David Olofson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Olofson

 

I'm glad to hear you were able to track down the problem for the owner.

[StrangerDanger]

My thought went to that case as well. Most of the time the owner ended up with the hammer down on a live round, so it wasn't a very reliable full auto setup.

[trob09]

My thought went to that case as well. Most of the time the owner ended up with the hammer down on a live round, so it wasn't a very reliable full auto setup.

yes, not a good end-state for string of fire.

[StrangerDanger]

Did some live fire tests yesterday with the burnt bronze M4. I went through 75 slugs and 50 rounds of buckshot, none of which would be considered low recoil. The Limbsaver makes shooting slugs so much more enjoyable. I don't even have a tingle in my shoulder today.

 

Also tested out the upgrades to a bolt carrier. I coated the bolt, extractor, extractor retaining pin, firing pin, cam, firing pin retainer in NP3+. I also dropped some NP3+ coated parts into the trigger pack, mainly the breech latch, trigger bushing pin, hammer spring cap and carrier spring plunger.

[AVATactical.com]

Sometime soon I have to get a M4 off to you to be reworked.

 

Do you know how this would work if it was a NFA item from out of state, btw?

[StrangerDanger]

It's kind of a pain in the d*ck. ATF 'recommends' you fill out the first page of a form 5, get it approved by them and then it can be transferred like any other shotgun. Theoretically I'd then have to fill out a form 5 to send it to Robar, then Robar fills one out back to me. Then finally one back to you. They take like 4 or 5 weeks to give you the approval. So following their recommended path, this would take forever.

 

It's definitely a gray area. I've called the ATF several times to try to get this clarified. They give you the standard form letter answer of, "You have to do it."

 

Most say screw all this since it just says recommends and not this is the law. Most just stick a copy of their form 1 or form 4 in with it along with a letter expressing the intended goal for the transfer. Robar handles all of their transactions like this for NFA devices. Particularly SBS and SBR NFA items.

[StrangerDanger]

Take a look at this part I found for sale. I never realized the barrel and the barrel extension were separate parts. I wonder if this was the source problem for Unobtanium's canted front sight issues several years ago.

 

 

I wonder if Benelliwerkes has ever taken one of these apart?

[AVATactical.com]

Well, I just noticed there is a flat on the top and bottom of that extension on the complete barrel assembly I have here.

 

Not sure i am interested in trying to take them apart though.

[Steve Rose]

Take a look at this part I found for sale. I never realized the barrel and the barrel extension were separate parts. I wonder if this was the source problem for Unobtanium's canted front sight issues several years ago.

 

 

I wonder if Benelliwerkes has ever taken one of these apart?

 

 

To a certain degree a loose extension could let the barrel turn and front sight cant (obviously the mag tube tube will limit how far the barrel turns when assembled). I think I've seen one loose Benelli extension and a few other brands (Remington 58 ?, maybe an A5 ?...its been a while). In each case cleaning up the parts and a good does of red Loctite got every thing back together.

[benelliwerkes]

I have not disassembled / re-assembled a M4 barrel extension.

[StrangerDanger]

Thanks for the information Steve! I'd guess the pistons would restrict how far out of alignment it could be. If I recall with Unobtaniums, it was only out of alignment by a few degrees.

 

I wonder if they crank them down to 150 ft lbs. like they do on AR15 barrel extensions.

[ohbejuan]

To add another point to SD's relevant NFA Item to Robar transfer. Here is a link directly from the ATF.

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/repair-nfa-firearms/download

 

"Strongly recommended" does not indicate "Required". This is repeated on the ATF website under the NFA FAQ, and the latest guidance that I know of.

 

Leave it to the owner's discretion whether a Robar "refinish" is considered a "repair" under these guidelines.

[AVATactical.com]

To add another point to SD's relevant NFA Item to Robar transfer. Here is a link directly from the ATF.

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/repair-nfa-firearms/download

 

"Strongly recommended" does not indicate "Required". This is repeated on the ATF website under the NFA FAQ, and the latest guidance that I know of.

 

Leave it to the owner's discretion whether a Robar "refinish" is considered a "repair" under these guidelines.

 

 

Pretty sure finishes are damaged and must be repaired.

[ohbejuan]

I'm certainly not one to taunt the ATF or throw caution to the wind when it comes to my freedom. I follow requirements and CFRs to the letter as much as I can from the best of my understanding. I've even taken care to read and decipher several of them. I live/work in the Gov world to some extent and a wise person once told me to do only what is REQUIRED and nothing more. If they want to require that and change the written guidance, I will follow. Until then, especially via word-of-mouth or orally, it's recommended according to at least 2 sources directly from the ATF

[StrangerDanger]

A few small updates:

 

1. I'm on my way to being a Robar Authorized Dealer. So the way this works is I get a 10% discount on all work being done. What most dealers do is charge you the retail amount and pocket the discount. So all work funneled through me will have the discount given to the customer. That should mitigate the my costs for doing the prep work and reassembly.

 

2. I've done around a dozen Limbsaver installations now over the past couple months. Everyone has been happy with the results. The reduction in recoil on full house loads is impressive. I was testing my burnt bronze build a few weeks back with the hardest kicking ball-busting slugs I had. It knocked the perceived recoil down to around what you'd expect a full house 2 3/4 buckshot load to be.

 

3. I should have a clients M4 back from the coater this month that will be rather impressive. If it's metal, it'll be coated in NP3+. Including the iron sight housing, ARGO plugs, Ava Tactical light mount, Scalarworks top rail with a Nickel Boron Trijicon RMR RM01, Limbsaver stock on a collapsible stock, magazine well ported, carriercomp titanium magazine tube, night sights, TTI shell elevator, fft trigger/disconnector, Geiselle hammer, dmw safety, BlueForceGear gear padded QD 221 sling in black kryptec. It'll have a Surefire Outdoorsman light with a 500 lumen m600u. Every pin and screw will be coated except for the tiny pins like the disconnector pin.