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jerhelo

TTI benelli M4 Triggers

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I'm in the "oem only" camp here. Benelli designed the fcg very well, and I have never had an issue with it. I have had issues with FFT, and TTI can't even design a bolt handle for an M4. Just not something I want to muck with, although I have a geissele hammer I may or may not end up installing in my project.

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I'm in agreement just looking for a 4th part to change so I can use the collapsible. I have a geissele hammer but was thinking about the remainder of the trigger group as an option but have not heard good things about Fft.

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FFT is run by a good guy. Even Kip spoke well of him to me. That said, I just do not find FFT's products to be in line with my personal design philosophy. The fact that their FCG didn't work when I bought it to try out was the deal killer.

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I am hearing that exact thing about it. I too think Todd seems to be a good guy and trying very hard to meet a high demand of product. I am waiting for my trigger set from him as we speak. I have my fingers crossed it works well for me. Will post results when it arrives. It just seems like Fft and TTI work together on items. That's my question.

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I am hearing that exact thing about it. I too think Todd seems to be a good guy and trying very hard to meet a high demand of product. I am waiting for my trigger set from him as we speak. I have my fingers crossed it works well for me. Will post results when it arrives. It just seems like Fft and TTI work together on items. That's my question.

 

I honestly don't know. I do know that FFT has piggybacked on Carrier Comp before, and necessarily in a symbiotic fashion. I would call and ask TTI.

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I've installed about 50 sets of FFT trigger kits mixed and matched with OEM and Geissele, and not one of them has given me any trouble. No one has complained to me about the longevity or durability either.

 

Just a small data point.

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I've installed about 50 sets of FFT trigger kits mixed and matched with OEM and Geissele, and not one of them has given me any trouble. No one has complained to me about the longevity or durability either.

 

Just a small data point.

 

Well screw me for getting the complete fft kit and it failing gloriously. I have luck like that though.

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I would have liked to have seen that to isolate which part was out of spec.

 

Of the hammers out there, the Geissele is without a doubt the best. Better than OEM in surface treatment hardness.

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Thanks for the video. Did you try swapping back in OEM parts to determine which of the three components were out of spec?

 

Yes I can for the hammers. I took pictures of the wear patterns present and showed the signs of deformation on the hammer face from impacting the bolt carrier/firing pin. FFT and OEM hammers deform about the same. Where as the surface hardness of the Geissele resists deformation. There is only surface brunishing visible. All units continued to function fine. The FFT and the Geissele unit had 2000 rounds each on them. The used OEM unit had about 8000 at that point.

 

The only thing I noted about the Geissele hammer is you cannot cock the hammer when the trigger pack is on safe. I can't see a situation that you'd find yourself in where you need to do this (hammer down with the safety engaged?), but it is something I noted that doesn't occur with the OEM or FFT unit.

 

DSC00144_zpsjxcwtdhg.jpg

 

DSC00137_zpsrqfxtagl.jpg

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I've seen that video before. Being these parts are tooled by CNC I believe and all I would assume this has happened before. My only concern is failure over time even if I didn't have any initial issues. Especially if the seers don't align properly wouldn't they prematurely wear???? Either way I will be trying mine as soon as my kit ships and from what I am told should be in a week or so.

 

I thought there was another company out there doing whole Trigger jobs, you have to send them your housing from what I remember as they fit it in place.

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Thanks for the video. Did you try swapping back in OEM parts to determine which of the three components were out of spec?

 

Yes I can for the hammers. I took pictures of the wear patterns present and showed the signs of deformation on the hammer face from impacting the bolt carrier/firing pin. FFT and OEM hammers deform about the same. Where as the surface hardness of the Geissele resists deformation. There is only surface brunishing visible. All units continued to function fine. The FFT and the Geissele unit had 2000 rounds each on them. The used OEM unit had about 8000 at that point.

 

The only thing I noted about the Geissele hammer is you cannot cock the hammer when the trigger pack is on safe. I can't see a situation that you'd find yourself in where you need to do this (hammer down with the safety engaged?), but it is something I noted that doesn't occur with the OEM or FFT unit.

 

DSC00144_zpsjxcwtdhg.jpg

 

DSC00137_zpsrqfxtagl.jpg

 

Good pix! I also am curious, is my Geissele "normal" in being unfinished like this? None of the hook parts of the hammer, nor the base of it (pictured) have any finish. Looks like they were profiled AFTER the finish was done.

20170212_101151.jpg

20170212_101131.jpg

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A small or few amount of complaints can be one of the most misleading things a seller can interpret.

 

For every 100 problems. Maybe 1 might speak about it. Often to get blown off as the only on to have the complaint despite many having the issue. The sellers not awknowledging this fact, or blowing off the customer only makes it worse and loses them business.

 

I'll take my business somewhere else, or stay stock if they can't support their product. Quick to charge, slow to stand behind it.

 

When I don't get support or get screwed, I don't stay quiet about it. I'm willing to be disliked to spread truth about something. I find myself often the first or only to respond despite numerous people having the issue.

 

After pondering it, I've decided to leave the FFT trigger out of the mix due to my poor view of the company, and product.

 

If someone's really gonna start ripping my gun apart to prove, well I'm gonna have a lot more to worry about than that. And anyway. They couldn't prove they weren't made in the US, and there's plenty of other compliant parts if you are really interested getting bent over to help yourself sleep at night.

 

My 0.02

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A small or few amount of complaints can be one of the most misleading things a seller can interpret.

 

For every 100 problems. Maybe 1 might speak about it. Often to get blown off as the only on to have the complaint despite many having the issue. The sellers not awknowledging this fact, or blowing off the customer only makes it worse and loses them business.

 

I'll take my business somewhere else, or stay stock if they can't support their product. Quick to charge, slow to stand behind it.

 

When I don't get support or get screwed, I don't stay quiet about it. I'm willing to be disliked to spread truth about something. I find myself often the first or only to respond despite numerous people having the issue.

 

After pondering it, I've decided to leave the FFT trigger out of the mix due to my poor view of the company, and product.

 

If someone's really gonna start ripping my gun apart to prove, well I'm gonna have a lot more to worry about than that. And anyway. They couldn't prove they weren't made in the US, and there's plenty of other compliant parts if you are really interested getting bent over to help yourself sleep at night.

 

My 0.02

 

FFT refunded my purchase in full. I have no qualms with FFT's transaction.

 

I did not mess with it enough to see what was wrong. I sent it all back, and it worked fine with the OEM FCG, so I left it at that.

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Isn't that a qualm in itself that you didn't get what you want. Their product wasted your time and money.

 

People are too nice nowadays. Customer is always right. Why do we see such role reversals nowadays? Women trying to be men, customers giving support to sellers..?

 

SMH

 

What happened to the good old days where companies that made bad products got represented as such. I suppose I should thank you for getting me to save my money. I'll give it to Scalarworks instead,

 

 

How about a product that works this time. And throw in one of your spring kits for the problems I encountered. (Is that just more stuff to buy or what's the story)That's how a company used to develop a business and a good reputation. That's the morals I grew up on.

Edited by Toaster
chilled out. I like Unobtainium.

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Isn't that a qualm in itself that you didn't get what you want. Their product wasted your time and money.

 

People are too nice nowadays. Customer is always right. Why do we see such role reversals nowadays? Women trying to be men, customers giving support to sellers..?

 

SMH

 

What happened to the good old days where companies that made bad products got represented as such. I suppose I should thank you for promoting me to save my money. And not support them.

 

 

How about a product that works this time. And throw in one of your spring kits for the problemI encountered. That's how a company used to develop a business and a good reputation. That's the morals I grew up on.

 

I'm not an FFT fanboy, but man, everyone puts a lemon out from time to time. FFT gave me my money back without argument. Even Geissele has put out FCG's that have broken. In half.

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Geissele had several design changes in each run of their hammers. They changed the U.S. stamping style a few times. Plus they ground the seat contact points after finishing. I guess you could argue they have more control over the grinder vs. a surface finish. I'm not sure at what point in the process they apply the heat treatment either.

 

Looking at rheir other trigger components, the more recent production units are left unfinished on their sear contact points also.

 

All parts can have problems and cause issues. I periodically get customers who send me their trigger packs because the OEM components aren't functioning. I've found several OEM triggers that were grossly out of spec and would cause issues where the hammer would not release from the disconnector. Problems happen across the board and get missed during inspection. Some problems only metastasize after initial use.

 

The sear contact points may look complex and perhaps operate on some form of magic, but in reality it is simply a spring loaded hook that the trigger sear pushes past on the disconnector. Then either engages the disconnector of the trigger is held to the rear, or the trigger sear. There is no real fitting to be done here. No file should ever touch these sears. While the results may feel great initially, the file would likely remove the hardened surface, and the softer unhardened materials will quickly deform and cause malfunction or a safety concern. Remember all the trigger job guru's for the AR15 platform that left users with a butter soft set of sears?

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Geissele had several design changes in each run of their hammers. They changed the U.S. stamping style a few times. Plus they ground the seat contact points after finishing. I guess you could argue they have more control over the grinder vs. a surface finish. I'm not sure at what point in the process they apply the heat treatment either.

 

Looking at rheir other trigger components, the more recent production units are left unfinished on their sear contact points also.

 

All parts can have problems and cause issues. I periodically get customers who send me their trigger packs because the OEM components aren't functioning. I've found several OEM triggers that were grossly out of spec and would cause issues where the hammer would not release from the disconnector. Problems happen across the board and get missed during inspection. Some problems only metastasize after initial use.

 

The sear contact points may look complex and perhaps operate on some form of magic, but in reality it is simply a spring loaded hook that the trigger sear pushes past on the disconnector. Then either engages the disconnector of the trigger is held to the rear, or the trigger sear. There is no real fitting to be done here. No file should ever touch these sears. While the results may feel great initially, the file would likely remove the hardened surface, and the softer unhardened materials will quickly deform and cause malfunction or a safety concern. Remember all the trigger job guru's for the AR15 platform that left users with a butter soft set of sears?

 

So I got the last and the best of the G hammers. I should have bought every damn one of them in stock.

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Good pix! I also am curious, is my Geissele "normal" in being unfinished like this? None of the hook parts of the hammer, nor the base of it (pictured) have any finish. Looks like they were profiled AFTER the finish was done.

 

 

Geissele never sold an unfinished hammer from my understanding for the benelli M4. And that is directly from speaking to Geissele as someone tried to sell me a knock off once. Just saying.

Edited by jerhelo

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Isn't that a qualm in itself that you didn't get what you want. Their product wasted your time and money.

 

People are too nice nowadays. Customer is always right. Why do we see such role reversals nowadays? Women trying to be men, customers giving support to sellers..?

 

SMH

 

What happened to the good old days where companies that made bad products got represented as such. I suppose I should thank you for getting me to save my money. I'll give it to Scalarworks instead,

 

 

How about a product that works this time. And throw in one of your spring kits for the problems I encountered. (Is that just more stuff to buy or what's the story)That's how a company used to develop a business and a good reputation. That's the morals I grew up on.

 

i can't argue that.

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Geissele never sold an unfinished hammer from my understanding for the benelli M4. And that is directly from speaking to Geissele as someone tried to sell me a knock off once. Just saying.

This one came from dsg, and it's definitely real.

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This one came from dsg, and it's definitely real.

 

i believe you I just find it funny that Geissele tech support doesn't even know that. I called them and emailed them a picture of an unfinished hammer and they argued up and down that they never sold any without the black finish. They said the markings looked right but they still stood by it not being theirs. I may even have the email still. I'll post if I do.

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