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Jolly Roger

A&S trigger guard problems

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I have a Briley trigger set and the hammer fit was way too tight in the hammer channel of the triggerguard. The parts assembled but did not function. As a quick fix I used lapping compound and worked the two parts by hand until the fit was nice and smooth. I have some concern that the fit is still too tight for dirty combat conditions and I plan to widen the channel on the mill next time I have it apart. and before any re-coating for color.

 

Rasyad

 

Is this with the A&S Guard?

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My A&S with FFT trigger parts does mot have this problem with the safety on or off, cycles (Cocks) smooth as butter. FYI

Edited by Intervention

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My A&S with FFT trigger parts does mot have this problem with the safety on or off, cycles smooth as butter. FYI

 

But, just so I understand, we're talking about cocking the hammer with the safety on. Not cycling it with the safety on AFTER the hammer has been cocked. So, if your hammer is forward, uncocked, and you put the safety on and then attempt to cock the hammer, there is no resistance?

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That is correct, with hammer forward, uncocked, and safety on cocking the hammer has no resistance. The same when cocking with safety off, there is NO RESISTANCE either way.

I just went and double checked my M4.

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So this anomaly goes away when the FFT fire control group is in the A&S guard.

 

Is there still an issue with the FFT fire control group in the Benelli aluminum guard?

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So you already had the Briley trigger, it was working fine, and you transferred that over to the A&S?

 

Yes, I already had a Briley Trigger set, installed by Briley in my stock aluminum trigger guard and it worked perfectly. I then transfered the trigger group to the A&S triggerguard, worked on the fit of the Briley Hammer in the A&S hammer channel and now it works perfectly.

 

Rasyad

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The one problem, I did encounter with the A&S guard was installing a S&J Jumbo Safety Selector. I had to sand down one of the flats to allow the safety to be pushed all the way in, it would only push half way due to rubbing against the trigger guard. If i put the Safety selector in from the left side it worked without any resistance. Other that that I have had no problems with the guard. Another FYI

Edited by Intervention

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So this anomaly goes away when the FFT fire control group is in the A&S guard.

 

Is there still an issue with the FFT fire control group in the Benelli aluminum guard?

Can be. I had an FFT trigger group that wouldn't even release the hammer a few years ago.

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This is getting scary boys......The parts that were talking about and there (differences in specs) be it because its a poly gaurd, aluminum guard, an aftermarket guard, or aftermarket trigger set ect ...THIS IS the safety!

 

One more millimeter for ANY reason above and it goes BOOM when you dont want it to!

I really hope there isnt a combination of parts and guard that ends up sending someone to meet there maker sooner than expected!

Furthermore if you have done any mods to the trigger assembly and you have absolutely no resistance when cocking (with hammer forward, uncocked, and safety on) This CAN be a very bad scenario!

If your trigger hook has enough play (while on safety) to let the hammer hook engage it without some resistance, then there is a possibility that your safety is unsafe! and needs close inspection.

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This whole thing scares the poop out of me, I mean how many wanna-be operator AR15 build owners at the range have an unsafe weapon because they bought a trigger from "Cheapies trigger manufacturer" and a sear from "Comegetsome sear Co."

and a lower from "DrillYo'own lowers" ect.

Think about the plethora of parts out there that if put into combination creates the perfect death DNA disaster....

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..still havent bought one of these..

 

After seeing how far their head is up their ass, I dont really care how cool their product is. I dont need a 200$ advertisement on my gun that causes issues, doesn't match, and is ran by some arrogant pricks.

 

Too many products are supported by bandwagoners and lemmings before they are properly tested and proven.

I'll stick with my aluminum oem trigger guard.. sure, its a touch loose side to side. But it looks great, fits great, and theres no problems!.

The mark on the bottom even matches the design on the field stock. It is a pretty little accent that could use highlighting, maybe a little chalk, or white paint pen. Honestly, I'm surprised they did that on the OEM.

 

I'm really glad my Benelli doesnt have "Benelli" plastered all over it, or I probably would have bought something else. I do not know why they must advertise, as if you didnt already buy the product. If they are worried about copies being represented as A&S, which I doubt, they could QC/proof it with a go-nogo gauge and then mark it good. Id be weary of such a critical component like this from an amatuer shop with zero previous credibility or repertoire.

 

And to what standard are these being made..?+- 0.002-4 and such DOES exist.. What model is being used, what tolerances. The minimums? Maximums? Do they have the drawings, or an average from an appreciably sized sample?

 

...Wheres the "binary" triggers for m4s at... /sarcasm

Edited by Toaster

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This whole thing scares the poop out of me, I mean how many wanna-be operator AR15 build owners at the range have an unsafe weapon because they bought a trigger from "Cheapies trigger manufacturer" and a sear from "Comegetsome sear Co."

and a lower from "DrillYo'own lowers" ect.

Think about the plethora of parts out there that if put into combination creates the perfect death DNA disaster....

 

Hey, wait a minute.....DrillYo Own lowers make a damn fine toilet paper holder.;)

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Hey, wait a minute.....DrillYo Own lowers make a damn fine toilet paper holder.;)

 

Dont forget casket handles :rolleyes:

.......if you dont know what your doin..

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..still havent bought one of these..

 

After seeing how far their head is up their ass, I dont really care how cool their product is. I dont need a 200$ advertisement on my gun that causes issues, doesn't match, and is ran by some arrogant pricks.

 

Too many products are supported by bandwagoners and lemmings before they are properly tested and proven.

I'll stick with my aluminum oem trigger guard.. sure, its a touch loose side to side. But it looks great, fits great, and theres no problems!.

The mark on the bottom even matches the design on the field stock. It is a pretty little accent that could use highlighting, maybe a little chalk, or white paint pen. Honestly, I'm surprised they did that on the OEM.

 

I'm really glad my Benelli doesnt have "Benelli" plastered all over it, or I probably would have bought something else. I do not know why they must advertise, as if you didnt already buy the product. If they are worried about copies being represented as A&S, which I doubt, they could QC/proof it with a go-nogo gauge and then mark it good. Id be weary of such a critical component like this from an amatuer shop with zero previous credibility or repertoire.

 

And to what standard are these being made..?+- 0.002-4 and such DOES exist.. What model is being used, what tolerances. The minimums? Maximums? Do they have the drawings, or an average from an appreciably sized sample?

 

...Wheres the "binary" triggers for m4s at... /sarcasm

 

Very good points made here, not that I have a problem with A&S, but things that make ya go hhmmmm....

Edited by Jolly Roger

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..still havent bought one of these..

 

After seeing how far their head is up their ass, I dont really care how cool their product is. I dont need a 200$ advertisement on my gun that causes issues, doesn't match, and is ran by some arrogant pricks.

 

Too many products are supported by bandwagoners and lemmings before they are properly tested and proven.

I'll stick with my aluminum oem trigger guard.. sure, its a touch loose side to side. But it looks great, fits great, and theres no problems!.

The mark on the bottom even matches the design on the field stock. It is a pretty little accent that could use highlighting, maybe a little chalk, or white paint pen. Honestly, I'm surprised they did that on the OEM.

 

I'm really glad my Benelli doesnt have "Benelli" plastered all over it, or I probably would have bought something else. I do not know why they must advertise, as if you didnt already buy the product. If they are worried about copies being represented as A&S, which I doubt, they could QC/proof it with a go-nogo gauge and then mark it good. Id be weary of such a critical component like this from an amatuer shop with zero previous credibility or repertoire.

 

And to what standard are these being made..?+- 0.002-4 and such DOES exist.. What model is being used, what tolerances. The minimums? Maximums? Do they have the drawings, or an average from an appreciably sized sample?

 

...Wheres the "binary" triggers for m4s at... /sarcasm

 

You do realize that Benelli hand-fits their FCG's in some cases, yes?

 

That said, the clearances DO exist for a reason, as SD has stated. This is why I have stuck with the ORIGINAL plan...OEM aluminum TG.

 

My cousin, an old drag-racer/dirt-track racer, and mechanic (He was running low 11's at 120+ in the 70's...with pictures and time-slips to prove it that I've seen.) told me one time of Chrysler getting ahold of a Mercedes transmission "back in the day". They reverse engineered it, and made their own. Removing a lot of "tolerance slop" and using coatings on the parts and in general, making it super awesome! Well, the damn thing wouldn't even shift when they put it in a vehicle.

 

Not all slop is bad slop. Benelli pushed the M1014 through some pretty damn intense testing at Picitinny, and I am loath to depart from their formula on critical parts. Safety buttons are not critical to function as long as they work. The weapon can even be fired without one, just no safety option. Things like shell lifters, and tolerances within the trigger pack, ARE critical things. I have opted to go OEM original, here.

 

...and yes, OEM original DOES have resistance to cocking the hammer with the safety on, and Benelli does touch upon it during their armorer courses, or at least, used to.

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A related side question.

 

Does anyone know at what date Benelli started using the alloy trigger guard assembly?

 

thanks

1998ish or so

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...and yes, OEM original DOES have resistance to cocking the hammer with the safety on, and Benelli does touch upon it during their armorer courses, or at least, used to.

 

I have my original trigger group and I have the A&S trigger group with the FFT trigger parts, Wolfe springs, TTI Extended carrier that I built with all original Benelli parts except for those and the safety.

 

There is no noticeable difference in how they feel during cocking, cycling or firing. The trigger pull on the A&S is about 1/2 pound less than factory stock and I would attribute that to the springs.

 

PS when I sanded down one of the flats a couple of thousandths on the safety it had nothing to do with the performance of the safety at all. It would have been no different if I had sand a little of the finish off of the A&S trigger guard on the outside bottom.

 

IMG_6477.jpg

IMG_6478.jpg

Edited by Intervention

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You do realize that Benelli hand-fits their FCG's in some cases, yes?

 

i find this hard to believe, other than what does "in some cases" mean, factory workers final assemble the shotguns with the exception of the Vinci shotgun, the manufacturing of which - from processing of raw materials to final packaging is entirely automated. Anyone who has seen the Benelli computerized factory knows that they have as little human hands on as possible. Take a look...

 

https://youtu.be/XCj0PCGGxtA

 

"Computer-driven robots can make gun parts to much more demanding tolerances than anyone can do by hand," explained Gian Luigi Boninella, plant manager at Benelli. His factory can produce 700 auto-loading shotguns per day- about 600 more than a factory full of hand craftsman could do. And they will be tighter-fitting and more blemish-free than anything produced by hand, Boninella claimed, because the element of human error has been removed.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2009/10/inside-benelli-shotgun-plant-urbino-italy#page-6

 

http://gunsforsale.com/manufacturer/benelli-firearms

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..........There is no noticeable difference in how they feel during cocking, cycling or firing. The trigger pull on the A&S is about 1/2 pound less than factory stock and I would attribute that to the springs.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3496[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3497[/ATTACH]

 

I would attribute that to there being no safety at all installed in the A&S;)

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The picture was taken before the safety was installed. They were tested completely assembled as described above.

 

I have only provided input to the original thread question by Jolly Roger regarding the M4's FCG's behavior.

 

I am not a salesperson for the G&S or any of the other parts I have used. I am not trying to convince anyone to get my setup. I could care less, if they put their logo on the bottom of the trigger housing, the only person that's going to see it is the dead guy laying on the ground. The unit is solid and I have no doubts about it's reliability.

Edited by Intervention

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I would just about bet that if 5 people copied your set up exactly.... we would have 5 different outcomes.

 

When you get into doing things like this, they all require "gunsmithing" to achieve desired results. If not, your just installing a new carburetor without tuning it afterwards.

It may work ok, and you can brag that you have it installed but in the end its not race ready.

Edited by Jolly Roger

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