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Jolly Roger

A&S trigger guard problems

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I would just about bet that if 5 people copied your set up exactly.... we would have 5 different outcomes.

 

When you get into doing things like this, they all require "gunsmithing" to achieve desired results. If not, your just installing a new carburetor without tuning it afterwards.

It may work ok, and you can brag that you have it installed but in the end its not race ready.

 

Indeed! Good analogy.

 

I was thinking of getting this from Briley as a turn key from them with their trigger.

 

The stuff here has me thinking about that a bit.

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Silly people, of course when you order a replacement trigger, hammer and disconnector from Benelli your going to need a gunsmith to install them for the desired results, to get them ready for the race! NOT! NOT! NOT! NOT!

They are made by a computer, to the highest tolerances, they are the same! Benelli has taken out the human factor in it's manufacturing process. Keep your Benelli FCG it's good to go for 25 thousand rounds and probably a **** of a lot more than that!

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They are made by a computer, to the highest tolerances, they are the same!.......

 

Sooooo thats why I was able to go to Cabellas and try six different M4's and have 6 different results?

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By installing these "race" parts in our gun are we fixing a Benelli bug or are we just making a gun that shoots people in the face.... "smoothly"

Edited by Jolly Roger

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By installing these "race" parts in our gun are we fixing a Benelli bug or are we just making a gun that shoots people in the face.... "smoothly"

 

Well...

 

Shooting people in the face smoothly has always been pretty important to me YMMV

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Lets coin the term "HDSOC" for ..... Hammer Down Safety On Cocking

 

Trying HDSOC on six brand new M4's the other day and getting six different degrees of resistance shows what then?

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And Im not doubting that your gun doesn't run great on HDSOC Intervention, Im just saying that you lucked out and got good DNA. Some of us may need surgery.......OR do we?!!!!

Thats the question here...

The doctor says that it should be hard to go poo and thats natural.....But..:) if you go through this surgery it wont be anymore......but..:) ...there could be serious consequences...1 out of 10 surgeries dont go as planned/parts dont line up like they should and theirs a good chance that you'll be leaving Hershey kisses on the office chair from now on...

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I don't know that luck had anything to do with it. When someone manufactures a 1000 guns a day, there will always be a lemon or 2 with even the best manufactures, thats just the rules of production. The odds not luck will always be in my favor that I will end up with a diamond.

 

There is no noticeable difference between the two (I don't have caliper hands so I'm only guessing). They don't have Cabellas out here in Cali, so I couldn't cycle 6 to compare. I ordered sight unseen from EuroOptic with a nice discount. Built a second trigger group with what I thought was the best parts I could find to comply with 922r without settling for Sh!t parts, while the gun was in jail.

Then I plugged and played and it all works like it's supposed to, I couldn't be happier with my M4!

Edited by Intervention

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Silly people, of course when you order a replacement trigger, hammer and disconnector from Benelli your going to need a gunsmith to install them for the desired results, to get them ready for the race! NOT! NOT! NOT! NOT!

They are made by a computer, to the highest tolerances, they are the same! Benelli has taken out the human factor in it's manufacturing process. Keep your Benelli FCG it's good to go for 25 thousand rounds and probably a **** of a lot more than that!

Just got done paying for an 11724 that had the polymer fcg. It is so difficult to cock with safety on that I didn't try harder. I guess with enough force it could be...

 

The vary. Ymmv. It has been and is normal.

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And Im not doubting that your gun doesn't run great on HDSOC Intervention, Im just saying that you lucked out and got good DNA. Some of us may need surgery.......OR do we?!!!!

Thats the question here...

The doctor says that it should be hard to go poo and thats natural.....But..:) if you go through this surgery it wont be anymore......but..:) ...there could be serious consequences...1 out of 10 surgeries dont go as planned/parts dont line up like they should and theirs a good chance that you'll be leaving Hershey kisses on the office chair from now on...

There's a free surgery that can help with that. They offer it for 922r violators, free of charge!

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I would just about bet that if 5 people copied your set up exactly.... we would have 5 different outcomes.

 

When you get into doing things like this, they all require "gunsmithing" to achieve desired results. If not, your just installing a new carburetor without tuning it afterwards.

It may work ok, and you can brag that you have it installed but in the end its not race ready.

 

 

Kinda sorta not exactly. A&S has copied benelli critical dimensions...but How? Did they call and get the tdp? Doubtful. My guess is that they got a few and modeled them up. But were those on the small or large end, and will A&S be able to keep their tolerances so small that this is fine , or did they copy the tightest 10% and do they have 15% in variance of their own , while benelli has the tdp, and shoots their say, 20% variance right down the middle, ensuring that x percent of A&S parts are outside the spec? We dunno...

 

 

...welcome to ar15s, circa 1990!

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Is A&S ever going to Man up and say where they got the dimensions from?? Or are they going to continue their ambiguity? Great way to make a weapon knowingly unsafe..

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Will Briley, Geissele, FFT, etc. release where they got their FCG specs from?As long as the pin-holes line up, which is incumbent upon the purchaser to check, just like headspacing on an AR bolt, it's not going to be unsafe.I have had OEM Benelli aluminum FCG's that didn't even fit the same way in t he same firearm because of pin hole locations.Benelli hand-fits some of their FCG's.This tells me that Benelli has enough variance that YOU the BUYER needs to verify pin-hole locations before swapping in your FCG, as the OEM has been known to hand-fit the FCG components before.*Note "Safe" does not mean "optimal function". It simply means that there will be sufficient engagement of critical bearing surfaces.

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Dumb question.  Which came first the aluminum trigger guard or polymer?  The M4 that I just picked up has a polymer unit. 

I see Midwest sells the stripped aluminum module.

 

 

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Aluminum came first.  I'd check with midwest first before ordering online... last time I emailed them they only had the polymer ones in stock even though they are using the aluminum part picture.

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Posted (edited)

Depends on your point of view. As for myself, when it comes to critical firearms parts, such as parts that bear stresses, or contain other critical moving parts with pins and springs, I don't like polymer. But, obviously millions and millions of people do.

I wouldn't own a polymer framed handgun, but then, I don't like striker fired guns either.😊 They probably switched the M4 to polymer trigger housings because it's cheaper and faster to produce.

I have one of the first hundred of the A&S trigger housings produced for the M4. It's a superior product to either of the OEM housings.

Edited by Evolution

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Yep, when you have all three in front of you its a no-brainer. The poly one is...well its plastic. The OEM aluminum one is rough and crudely cast...The A&S is high quality and precision made. It puts both the plastic and oem aluminum guards to shame.  

******************************************************************************

Plastic guard kinda reminds me of Glock (and thats being kind)

OEM aluminum guard reminds me of Hi-Point

A&S guard = Full custom 1911

...and Im not a A&S fanboy, just calling it as I see it. Honestly I dont care for the built in ramp on the A&S guard, I think its useless and looks dumb...

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54 minutes ago, Evolution said:

 

I have one of the first hundred of the A&S trigger housings produced for the M4. It's a superior product to either of the OEM housings.

Was there a problem after the first hundred?

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9 minutes ago, les_garten said:

Was there a problem after the first hundred?

Not that I know of Les. But IIRC, there was some whining about something later on in production but I think that was more attributable to "operator error."😉  

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The OEM aluminum frames remind me of old Colt AR15 receivers. They’re rough, loads of flashing that was never filed off. Pitting everywhere from impurities in the aluminum. 

 

I have ave never seen any issues with a polymer trigger frame. They’re a little lighter than the aluminum model too. I personally carry polymer framed guns on duty and for concealed carry. They’re striker fired evil too! Fewer problems with them in my experience than hammer guns. Fewer wait a minutes. 

 

Having said that, the A&S frames are the best. I don’t use the ramp either. I just want a smooth functioning trigger platform that can be plated. 

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said:

Yep, when you have all three in front of you its a no-brainer. The poly one is...well its plastic. The OEM aluminum one is rough and crudely cast...The A&S is high quality and precision made. It puts both the plastic and oem aluminum guards to shame.  

******************************************************************************

Plastic guard kinda reminds me of Glock (and thats being kind)

OEM aluminum guard reminds me of Hi-Point

A&S guard = Full custom 1911

...and Im not a A&S fanboy, just calling it as I see it. Honestly I dont care for the built in ramp on the A&S guard, I think its useless and looks dumb...

Well said. One major standout I like about them is that it's machined from a piece of billet aluminum and every single edge on the piece is broken- a very nice touch. Then there's the superior finish and blah, blah, blah...😋

Edited by Evolution

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