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super20g

Light Mount Options for Surefire M300C on 14" M4 SBS?

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Hi Guys,

 

I have a factory 14" M4 SBS that i'd like to mount an Surefire M300C onto.

 

What are the mounting options?

 

I see the AVA and the IWC mounts. Any other viable options I am unaware of?

 

Any pros/cons to consider between these two?

 

The AVA I have not found in stock for awhile so that might answer my own question unless there are re-sellers that have stock?

 

Any concerns with the Surefire M300C not being the best fit for the 14" M4 due to the light's short length causing problem with shadow from the barrel?

 

Thanks for your time.

Edited by super20g

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I got the AVA mount, but there was an issue with the fitment. It's not because of the AVA mount, but with the thickness of the barrel hanger. It seems on some Benellis' that the hanger isn't square to the barrel causing a gap where the mount attaches. There's another thread on here highlighting this issue (with photos). I had to send my barrel to them to custom fit. This issue may be part of the reason why AVA Tactical put a hold on the sale of their mounts in order to determine the scope of this issue with Benelli. You may want to contact them to get notified when it's available.

 

I haven't had experience with the IWC mount, but decided to go with the AVA because it looked more "clean" and sleek over the IWC mount while provided the same functions. Also the IWC mount only accepts scout lights, unless you get the rail attachment (someone on here will correct me if I'm wrong).

 

I found a few other mounting options from this site https://amsmachine.net/product-list/light-mounts/, but you might have to do some slight modifications if you don't have a rail.

Edited by AnToNicS09

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With the IWC, you can add various bodies other than Scout lights, but you get stuck adding picatinny rail sections. If you’re going with the IWC, you should also buy their M600 backbone light body. Then add the lamp head and tailcap you want to the package.

 

Ava Tactical is sold out with more being made currently. Another batch will likely be done in 60-90 days. It certainly mounts cleaner and pulls the light closer to the weapon. This is good and bad as it can exaggerate Barrel shadows. This will be minimized on your 14” Barrel. There can be some fitting issues since the light rides so close to the weapon. Scout tailcaps will not fit without modifying the shroud. There are aftermarket tailcaps like the McClickie that will work, but I personally prefer the Surefire clicker. I personally use the IWC backbone light bodies with the Ava mount. The foot of the body locks in to place to prevent any unwanted movement. For lamp heads, you won’t have any issues with the M300C, I only ran in to problems with the M600IB which has a bezel diameter of 1.37”. Some light lathe work resolved that issue.

 

My experience with the 1” diameter bodies is limited. I didn’t like the Surefire P3X, it weighed too much and it seemed like recoil was damaging the three cells.

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Just a few of the lights I have mounted to AVA on a 14". I have some Scout photos around somewhere - standby.

 

DSCN0485a copy.jpg

DSCN0464 copy.jpg

DSCN0469a copy.jpg

Edited by benelliwerkes

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Remember some heads have flat and radius surfaces that need to be considered to make them fit well.

DSCN0568 copy.jpg [ATTACH=CONFIG]3636[/ATTACH]..........;'''''

DSCN0571 copy.jpg

Edited by benelliwerkes

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I have the same setup (waiting on NFA), and am going with the IWC. I prefer the IWC because it's lighter, and provides the same functionality. It is the cleaner option in MY opinion. It also properly mounts a SCOUT light instead of relying on compression/tension from compression around the light body. It does rely on compression around the barrel hanger, but it is also keyed, as it fits in the recess where the sling plate was. To me, these things matter for a 12ga weapon.

 

Noone has ever broken either, so less weight is less weight, ultimately, is my take.

 

cd1fbfd0c2bf01809f77ce7eeb6a8fd8.jpg

SSBMA7t.jpg

 

To me, the AVA looks overly complicated because of all the fittings, and the weak link is the compression on the Surefire body. People complain all the time about scope rings not holding scopes to .375 H&H magnums (similar recoil to a full house 12ga load), and yet here we have a MUCH LESS PRECISE fitment than precision line-bored rings and a honed optic tube, and one ring to boot. It just...bothers me. So I stick with "keyed" mounts like the Scout series, which the AVA pretty much removes from functionality.

 

Also, as noted, the barrel hanger must be 100% true to the barrel, which of course is ideal and all, but not really "necessary" to be strictly honest, for the function proper, of the shotgun. The AVA mount, however, requires this. Any deviation from it reduces the strength of the joints. The IWC mount on the other hand isn't so picky, unless the hanger is severely under-sized, which I would wager is a wee less likely.

 

Also, the IWC allows you to keep your shrouded tail cap. AVA won't.

Edited by Unobtanium

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I have both mounts and I think both have their strong points. One reason I prefer the AVA is because I think as it attaches to more surface area on the main part of the hanger, it's the stronger of the two. Plus, you can use the OEM front sling plate.

 

Iv'e mentioned before that I just would not trust the IWC mount to hold up under heavy sling strain pulling on it. And attaching your sling to it is the only option you have.

 

I use the OEM sling plate on the front in the down facing position. This allows me to tightly sling up the gun without the front of the sling "biting" against my hand /wrist.

 

You only have one option with the IWC as far as sling attachment, it's going to pull off of the side of the mount whether the swivel is facing down or to the side.

 

Since I only use the sling for shooting, and not running around with it hanging off my body, having the front of the sling pull straight down is a must for comfort when "slung up" in a standing shooting position.

 

I suppose it's possible that a non IWC backbone light body could slip during recoil in the AVA mount but, it's virtually impossible to happen if you're using a IWC backbone body.

 

The recess on the AVA mount completely captures the rear lug of the light body and there is zero movement or play in there. Then the lug and body is tightly clamped down. It's like a mortise and tenon joint. This has been explained ad-nauseam in a lot of threads already.

 

Not having to modify or change the tail cap goes to the IWC.:cool: IMO, the IWC mounting casts less barrel shadow due I think because it stands off the light from the barrel. The AVA is way tight in there.

 

As for people complaining that their optics slip in their rings when firing a heavy magnum rifle, I submit that these people are probably using non-premium rifle scope rings to start with, and/or probably are improperly tightening them to boot.

 

That shouldn't happen- .375 magnum or not.

Edited by Evolution

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I have both mounts and I think both have their strong points. One reason I prefer the AVA is because I think as it attaches to more surface area on the main part of the hanger, it's the stronger of the two. Plus, you can use the OEM front sling plate.

 

Iv'e mentioned before that I just would not trust the IWC mount to hold up under heavy sling strain pulling on it. And attaching your sling to it is the only option you have.

 

I use the OEM sling plate on the front in the down facing position. This allows me to tightly sling up the gun without the front of the sling "biting" against my hand /wrist.

 

You only have one option with the IWC as far as sling attachment, it's going to pull off of the side of the mount whether the swivel is facing down or to the side.

 

Since I only use the sling for shooting, and not running around with it hanging off my body, having the front of the sling pull straight down is a must for comfort when "slung up" in a standing shooting position.

 

I suppose it's possible that a non IWC backbone light body could slip during recoil in the AVA mount but, it's virtually impossible to happen if you're using a IWC backbone body.

 

The recess on the AVA mount completely captures the rear lug of the light body and there is zero movement or play in there. Then the lug and body is tightly clamped down. It's like a mortise and tenon joint. This has been explained ad-nauseam in a lot of threads already.

 

Not having to modify or change the tail cap goes to the IWC.:cool: IMO, the IWC mounting casts less barrel shadow due I think because it stands off the light from the barrel. The AVA is way tight in there.

 

As for people complaining that their optics slip in their rings when firing a heavy magnum rifle, I submit that these people are probably using non-premium rifle scope rings to start with, and/or probably are improperly tightening them to boot.

 

That shouldn't happen- .375 magnum or not.

 

Actually the last one I read about was a .308 with a SPUHR mount. Hakkan himself posted in the thread, and suggested rosin be used.

 

The one thing we ALL agree on, is that compared to 2010, things are doing great for light mounting!

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I ordered a Strike Industries Hayl mount to test another mounting solution. I may mount a TAPS switch block to the rail in the MLOK position. I may put an IWC inline MLOK mount on the opposite side to compare against the IWC and Ava Tactical mount. I'll probably flip the Ava tactical mount so that the light is on the ejection port side.

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I ordered a Strike Industries Hayl mount to test another mounting solution. I may mount a TAPS switch block to the rail in the MLOK position. I may put an IWC inline MLOK mount on the opposite side to compare against the IWC and Ava Tactical mount. I'll probably flip the Ava tactical mount so that the light is on the ejection port side.

 

I've been waiting for someone with some common sense to buy a Hayl and review it.

 

From what I gather:

 

If you don't use the set-screws, it's going to flop all around and mar the gun in various places. If you DO use the set-screws, it is no-longer toolless to take the weapon down for cleaning, etc. Can you comment further or correct me?

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I'll probably flip the Ava tactical mount so that the light is on the ejection port side.

 

Won't that be problematic for right hand shooter to activate the light without a tape switch of some type?

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Hey All.

 

For one, I am looking forward to SD's input on the SI Hand-guard. I find it intriguing.

 

A few things, we introduced our mount in 2013, there were no M4 specific options for mounting lights at that time - and we all know that the generic options are garbage. We were the only ones willing to invest in the platform and bring options to the table. For me, it was a labor of love - I am not an engineer in this field, and I've never brought a product to market like that. But I designed it because I wanted something that worked and once I had the design, it only made sense to try and figure out how to make many of them and offer them. My daughter can still tell you about all the hours she spent sitting on my lap watching me tweak the design in auto-cad.

 

A few notes on the design:

 

Fit

For the AVA Mount, we've had about 0.2% that the hanger is out of square enough to cause fit problems. We did not stop selling them because of this, we actually ran out. I am going to make some small adjustments, that I made manually on the ones that did not fit, to fix it in the next run. I've tried to get my hands on one of these barrels, but nobody has been willing to trade theirs, not that I blame them. I have about 9 barrels for m4s now, these are my engineering samples. If someone does have a ill fitting barrel with our mount, contact me and I will buy it / trade it. I think I have the data I need, but would still love to have one.

 

Mount / Scout Recoil

The mount is captive between two features on the barrel hanger. It cannot move forward or aft under recoil, even with the recoil of a 20mm it would not / could not move. The same for the way we mount scouts. All other lights are different, but scouts the lug is captive. This means, when using a scout it also cannot / will not move just as the other scout mounting option on the market. Where the screws are placed is indeed different, but the results are the same. Unless the screws come loose, the lights are not moving on ours or IWCs.

 

Non-Scout Lights

That said, standard lights are indeed compression fitted. Again this is the same for all light mounts for every platform (M4 or otherwise), point being this is not a AVA issue this is any cylindrical light mounted to a weapon. With Mod 1, we have not be able to get a light to slip under recoil, we had several others test this as well and provide feedback before production and all went well. Additionally, one of the lights we offer - the Doberman - has a squared tailcap, which would work just as the lugs on the scout would preventing it from moving.

 

Thanks All. Always appreciate the discussions around this market.

Edited by AVATactical.com

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Hey All.

 

For one, I am looking forward to SD's input on the SI Hand-guard. I find it intriguing.

 

A few things, we introduced our mount in 2013, there were no M4 specific options for mounting lights at that time - and we all know that the generic options are garbage. We were the only ones willing to invest in the platform and bring options to the table. For me, it was a labor of love - I am not an engineer in this field, and I've never brought a product to market like that. But I designed it because I wanted something that worked and once I had the design, it only made sense to try and figure out how to make many of them and offer them. My daughter can still tell you about all the hours she spent sitting on my lap watching me tweak the design in auto-cad.

 

A few notes on the design:

 

Fit

For the AVA Mount, we've had about 3/1500+ that the hanger is out of square enough to cause fit problems. We did not stop selling them because of this, we actually ran out. I am going to make some small adjustments, that I made manually on the 3, to fix it in the next run. I've tried to get my hands on one of these barrels, but nobody has been willing to trade theirs, not that I blame them. I have about 9 barrels for m4s now, these are my engineering samples. If someone does have a ill fitting barrel with our mount, contact me and I will buy it / trade it. I think I have the data I need, but would still love to have one.

 

Mount / Scout Recoil

The mount is captive between two features on the barrel hanger. It cannot move forward or aft under recoil, even with the recoil of a 20mm it would not / could not move. The same for the way we mount scouts. All other lights are different, but scouts the lug is captive. This means, when using a scout it also cannot / will not move just as the other scout mounting option on the market. Where the screws are placed is indeed different, but the results are the same. Unless the screws come loose, the lights are not moving on ours or IWCs.

 

Non-Scout Lights

That said, standard lights are indeed compression fitted. Again this is the same for all light mounts for every platform (M4 or otherwise), point being this is not a AVA issue this is any cylindrical light mounted to a weapon. With Mod 1, we have not be able to get a light to slip under recoil, we had several others test this as well and provide feedback before production and all went well. Additionally, one of the lights we offer - the Doberman - has a squared tailcap, which would work just as the lugs on the scout would preventing it from moving.

 

Thanks All. Always appreciate the discussions around this market.

 

 

Can you or someone post a photo of this scout lug/AVA interface?

 

Does this imply a "MOD 2" in the works?

 

Love your company, your CS, and the product is extremely well finished. If/When the MOD2 comes out, I'll certainly look into it.

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Hey Unob -

 

Pictures can be seen on this post here:

 

https://forums.benelliusa.com/showthread.php/33501-Announcement-AVA-Mod1-for-the-Benneli-M4?p=188677#post188677

 

The idea is that the lug is captive in a pocket. Then the light is secured with the band, using 4 screws. Unless those screws come loose, the lug will prevent any recoil from moving the light. A scout using standard mounting would secure the light with 2 screws into the actual lug. I believe as far as recoil movement mitigation you have the same result.

 

We will likely make a a Mod 2, yes. Surefire, for one, keeps this industry on their toes. For example there are new Scouts being released that support a larger rechargeable battery and they are no longer .8 inch as a result.

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Hey Unob -

 

Pictures can be seen on this post here:

 

https://forums.benelliusa.com/showthread.php/33501-Announcement-AVA-Mod1-for-the-Benneli-M4?p=188677#post188677

 

The idea is that the lug is captive in a pocket. Then the light is secured with the band, using 4 screws. Unless those screws come loose, the lug will prevent any recoil from moving the light. A scout using standard mounting would secure the light with 2 screws into the actual lug. I believe as far as recoil movement mitigation you have the same result.

 

We will likely make a a Mod 2, yes. Surefire, for one, keeps this industry on their toes. For example there are new Scouts being released that support a larger rechargeable battery and they are no longer .8 inch as a result.

 

Dunno why I didn't see that before! What is the clearance on the lug vs. pocket? I really like that.

 

Will the MOD 2 accomodate older scout bodies, as well, or moving forward will it only support the newer ones?

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I can take some measurements, but the pocket was made for the lug, it has enough clearance for the lug and not much more.

 

As far as older scout bodies... good question. I honestly don't know yet. If the new body is 1 inch, that would mean for us we only would need one band for all lights including the new scouts.

 

Making the .8 inch band for legacy scouts may then may not make sense. Not saying no, because I don't quite no yet. I also don't know how long surefire may continue to make the older style bodies. Have to understand these dynamics and make an analysis of where to go from there...

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My plan is to use a Unity Tactical Taps switch block on the left side, and mount the light to the right side. I have three options for the light itself;

1. Mount directly to the Hayl via a MLOK Mount

2. Reverse the Ava Tactical Mount to mount it to the right side, this gives me issues with sling mounting unless I get a MLOK QD socket

3. Use the IWC mount which is ambidextrous.

 

In all three scenarios it will use the same IWC backbone light body.

 

As for the Hayl handguard, we will see soon. All I have seen is their pictures and a few other vague mentions online. The set screws could be an issue. My guess is I can set them so that it locks up tight, but not so tight that you cannot remove the rail without tools. Depending on the set screw, it may leave marks on the rear handguard retainer and the front handguard retainer of the barrel assembly.

 

I have no interest in mounting anything to the bottom rail. What interests me is the out of the way MLOK rail points at 11 and 1 o’clock that appear to be perfect for mounting a quality switch block like the TAPS. Using a light with a thumb activated switch is a little dangerous on a heavy recoiling platform like the Benelli. It’s really easy to jam your thumb under recoil. Pressing inward on a quality tape switch would be a better solution (in theory.) I’m still researching to see if I can get away with using the standard model instead of a pro model. I have a pro model on hand to test with. I have no use for the Insight wire lead, so I’ll either cut it off or find a place to tuck the wire inside the rail. I’m not afraid to modify the rail to loom the wiring inside.

 

I have concerns about the ergonomics of the Hayl rail too. Im not a fan of sharp metal that appears to have been made for cosmetics rather than function. I hate those hand stops they show the rail with. If I were building a rail like this, it would be like the Magpul MOE handguard sets. A semi-smooth outer face with lightly recessed panels with aggressive stippling. Polymer all the things over aluminum.

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The length of the Unity switch leads do not appear to very long to traverse right side to left side.... a hot barrel probably prohibits the lead to course it over the top of the hot barrel (short route) so underneath the magazine tube / hand guard is quite a bit longer route to a 9 -11 o'clock switch position ? In fact, in my experience short leads on most switches are the achilles of mounting them.

Edited by benelliwerkes

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The problem with the Benelli M4 hand guard is its relative small size of real estate to get the tape switch mounted in an ergonomic fashion for thumb activation. The Hayle kit attachment project looks similar to a problem encountered when I had to fabricate a rail for a switch mount at 10-11 o'clock position on my 8" 9 mm SBR; had to get the light on the right side and away from the hand guard to make room for well, my support hand! The switch lead lengths were limiting my options to have the switch opposite side of the light mount and I wanted it to be QD. I used some T-nuts on the underside of the inner surface of the rail, like when I mounted a pica tinny on the OEM Benelli hand guard.

 

IMG_5117 copy.jpg

IMG_5076a copy.jpg

IMG_5077 copy.jpg

Edited by benelliwerkes

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I remember seeing that handguard with the picatinny rail attached. I copied a lot of it when I did my IWC scout light mount embedded in to the inside of the OEM handguards.

 

I wanted to do the same with the OEM handguards and the Taps switch, but there are to many obstructions going on inside and complex angles to cut out. The handguard isn’t that thick either. If using the Pro model of the Taps switch, you can program which switch does the momentary output for the light. So you can run the wires to the front or to the back of the switch block if necessary. Usually the best mehod is running them to the rear. I’m not sure if I can route the wire between the barrel and the mag tube. I don’t think the barrel gets hot enough to melt the wire?

 

Some day I’ll man up and cut the wire and figure out how to splice them to make longer runs! Probably after I melt a wire!

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Hey All.

 

For one, I am looking forward to SD's input on the SI Hand-guard. I find it intriguing.

 

A few things, we introduced our mount in 2013, there were no M4 specific options for mounting lights at that time - and we all know that the generic options are garbage. We were the only ones willing to invest in the platform and bring options to the table. For me, it was a labor of love - I am not an engineer in this field, and I've never brought a product to market like that. But I designed it because I wanted something that worked and once I had the design, it only made sense to try and figure out how to make many of them and offer them. My daughter can still tell you about all the hours she spent sitting on my lap watching me tweak the design in auto-cad.

 

A few notes on the design:

 

Fit

For the AVA Mount, we've had about 0.2% that the hanger is out of square enough to cause fit problems. We did not stop selling them because of this, we actually ran out. I am going to make some small adjustments, that I made manually on the ones that did not fit, to fix it in the next run. I've tried to get my hands on one of these barrels, but nobody has been willing to trade theirs, not that I blame them. I have about 9 barrels for m4s now, these are my engineering samples. If someone does have a ill fitting barrel with our mount, contact me and I will buy it / trade it. I think I have the data I need, but would still love to have one.

 

Mount / Scout Recoil

The mount is captive between two features on the barrel hanger. It cannot move forward or aft under recoil, even with the recoil of a 20mm it would not / could not move. The same for the way we mount scouts. All other lights are different, but scouts the lug is captive. This means, when using a scout it also cannot / will not move just as the other scout mounting option on the market. Where the screws are placed is indeed different, but the results are the same. Unless the screws come loose, the lights are not moving on ours or IWCs.

 

Non-Scout Lights

That said, standard lights are indeed compression fitted. Again this is the same for all light mounts for every platform (M4 or otherwise), point being this is not a AVA issue this is any cylindrical light mounted to a weapon. With Mod 1, we have not be able to get a light to slip under recoil, we had several others test this as well and provide feedback before production and all went well. Additionally, one of the lights we offer - the Doberman - has a squared tailcap, which would work just as the lugs on the scout would preventing it from moving.

 

Thanks All. Always appreciate the discussions around this market.

 

Hi,

Where can I purchase an Ava light mount for the M4?

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