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M1 super 90 problems

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My pre 1994 M1 super 90 is acting up lately. Before I was using some cheap 00 buckshot, which all fired okay. Now I switched to the Federal flitecontrol 00 buckshot. And it start to have fail to eject and fail to feed problems. I did some research online, and people were saying the shotgun shells are too light, it should weight 1.25 oz. But this federal fitecontrol buckshot is indeed 1.25 oz shell.

 

From one of the photos I attached you can see the bolt didn't even go back far enough to load a round. I did disassemble the gun and oil everything before the range trip. Did I do anything wrong when I put it back?

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Is this the 1145 fps load? If so, even with 1.25 oz payload the recoil generated is on the edge of “not enough” to cycle your specific gun. IIRC Federal has a 1325 fps Flite Control buck shell that should fix your issue.

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Is this the 1145 fps load? If so, even with 1.25 oz payload the recoil generated is on the edge of “not enough” to cycle your specific gun. IIRC Federal has a 1325 fps Flite Control buck shell that should fix your issue.

 

It is 1145 fps. is there a permanent way to fix this gun instead of choosing ammo? This is not what I expected.

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Not being a smartass but, why would you ever consider modifying, and thereby possibly screwing up a perfectly good firearm, with respect to where it might not function, or it might be damaged from using regular full power ammo rather than just using an appropriate load in it?

 

I only use Federal ammo in my M4 in various loadings, and even the "reduced recoil" tactical slugs and 00 are advertised as 1300 & 1325 fps.

 

Why insist on the 1145? The felt recoil with those 1325 loads (at least in an M4) is about as tame as a .308 bolt gun- nothing.

Use that 1145 stuff in a pump gun.

Edited by Evolution

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Take the sf forend off, or use a full power load.

 

ARe you saying the surefire forend will prevent the shotgun from cycling light loads?

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From the Benelli M1 Manual:

 

Extensive testing in ballistics labs and repeated field-testing of our line produced weapons put at 180 kgm the lowest level of kinetic energy that must be generated by the cartridge 12 gauge and at 125 kgm for 20 gauge to fully cycle the action (the measurement was taken on a manometric barrel, according to at a velocity of V1 at 10 meter distance from the muzzle).

 

Empirically, Benelli has determined the minimum threshold of kinetic energy required to cycle the bolt; the rest of the understanding is simple mathematics / physics. See thumbnail.

 

 

KEMin = ½ m VMin2 KE=kinetic energy m=mass of gun

V1 = Vmin = minimum cartridge power to cycle M1 action

 

When the mass of the gun is increased = m2 ; V2 will be LESS than V1

 

 

Because V2 is less than V1, the minimum amount of kinetic energy to cycle the inertia bolt mechanism is not generated.

 

The Benelli M1 20 gauge inertia bolt weighs 385 grams.

 

Two 20 gauge cartridges weigh 65 grams

Two shot magazine tube extension weighs 300 grams

Total = 365 grams

 

So, a 2 shot extension tube with cartridges is within 20 grams (2/3 of ounce) weight of the inertia bolt weight.

 

The attached may assist in understanding how adding weight / mass to the inertia platform may interfere with reliable cycling operation. The 20 gauge M1 bolt weighs 385 grams; a 2 shot magazine tube extension weighs 300 grams Plus 65 grams for the 2 cartridges and you have 365 grams of extra weight; almost the weight of the bolt.

 

Third parties cite Benelli sources as stating that ~ 500 grams of added weight (1.1 pounds) begins to reduce reliable function. A 12 gauge 2 shot extension and two 3" cartridges is just about 500 grams......again, just about the mass of the 12 gauge inertia bolt.

 

So, the addition of the 2-shot extensions plus the cartridges do not exceed the bolt weight, but add a Picatinny rail and a light etc......therein the problems of operation may begin to be experienced.

Screen Shot 2018-05-11 at 6.14.04 PM.jpg

Edited by benelliwerkes

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ARe you saying the surefire forend will prevent the shotgun from cycling light loads?

 

Depending on other factors, yes.

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ARe you saying the surefire forend will prevent the shotgun from cycling light loads?

 

A lot of the 3 Gun shooters reliable run guns with 12 round mag tubes which, when filled, add a good bit more weight than your Surefire fore end and 2 shot mag extension. Those items - by themselves - should not cause any issues.

 

 

 

IMHO, and from a lot of observation, I think the pistol grip inertia guns are more prone to short cycling with lighter loads that the conventional stock guns. Why? Because the triangle shape, bone support, etc. of your arm when gripping the pistol grip limits the gun's movement to the point of not allowing the needed momentum to adequate compress the inertia spring (the thick spring inside the bolt carrier) and make the action cycle fully.

 

 

You can experiment with how you hold the gun (pulled tightly against your shoulder vs allowed to move a bit more) and possible find a technique that lets the guns cycle that 1145 fps load...but most Benelli M2 shooters will tell you that moving up to 1200 fps 1 1/8oz loads will solve a lot of cycling issues.

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A lot of the 3 Gun shooters reliable run guns with 12 round mag tubes which, when filled, add a good bit more weight than your Surefire fore end and 2 shot mag extension. Those items - by themselves - should not cause any issues.

 

 

 

IMHO, and from a lot of observation, I think the pistol grip inertia guns are more prone to short cycling with lighter loads that the conventional stock guns. Why? Because the triangle shape, bone support, etc. of your arm when gripping the pistol grip limits the gun's movement to the point of not allowing the needed momentum to adequate compress the inertia spring (the thick spring inside the bolt carrier) and make the action cycle fully.

 

 

You can experiment with how you hold the gun (pulled tightly against your shoulder vs allowed to move a bit more) and possible find a technique that lets the guns cycle that 1145 fps load...but most Benelli M2 shooters will tell you that moving up to 1200 fps 1 1/8oz loads will solve a lot of cycling issues.

Short of grotesque limp-wristing, serious use guns should not fail to function without special holding techniques.

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Back in the day during the 90's when I got my first M1 I also found that it would not reliably cycle the pre-flitecontrol wad, low-recoil buckshot LE132-00. It needed the more standard velocity buckshot loads to work 100%. I really wanted to use the low-recoil version and found SureCycle. They made, still make, recoil tubes/springs that were designed for use with the lower recoil ammunition. While expensive, I decided to try one out and, lo and behold, their claims of proper functioning with the low recoil ammo proved to be true. For me. I never looked back. That gun and two others of that vintage including a 14" entry gun have been fitted with one of their tubes since the mid 90's and have functioned reliably ever since. While they each sometimes hiccup on really-really light birdshot training loads, the original Federal LE132-00 and the current version with the flitecontrol wads works just fine in those guns. I've never felt the need to go with the Vital Shock & Tactical version with higher velocity. I did try some out and found that it didn't pattern as well as the Tactical lower recoil version anyway so there is no need to change. If you're really set on using their Tactical lower recoil version of the load, you might try out SureCycle. Worked for me.

https://www.surecycle.com/collections/sure-cycle-systems

Edited by truckcop

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Short of grotesque limp-wristing, serious use guns should not fail to function without special holding techniques.

 

I agree100%.

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Back in the day during the 90's when I got my first M1 I also found that it would not reliably cycle the pre-flitecontrol wad, low-recoil buckshot LE132-00. It needed the more standard velocity buckshot loads to work 100%. I really wanted to use the low-recoil version and found SureCycle. They made, still make, recoil tubes/springs that were designed for use with the lower recoil ammunition. While expensive, I decided to try one out and, lo and behold, their claims of proper functioning with the low recoil ammo proved to be true. For me. I never looked back. That gun and two others of that vintage including a 14" entry gun have been fitted with one of their tubes since the mid 90's and have functioned reliably ever since. While they each sometimes hiccup on really-really light birdshot training loads, the original Federal LE132-00 and the current version with the flitecontrol wads works just fine in those guns. I've never felt the need to go with the Vital Shock & Tactical version with higher velocity. I did try some out and found that it didn't pattern as well as the Tactical lower recoil version anyway so there is no need to change. If you're really set on using their Tactical lower recoil version of the load, you might try out SureCycle. Worked for me.

https://www.surecycle.com/collections/sure-cycle-systems

 

This Reduced Power Spring Kit will yield similar results http://tarantacticalinnovations.com/tti-ultimate-benelli-power-pack-spring-set/

 

 

 

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Thanks guys! I read all your comments. I want to put the original forensic back on and see it changes anything. Need to go to the range before I report back. That sure cycle system seems a good solution, just the installation seems a hassle if I don’t have the tools.

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Thanks guys! I read all your comments. I want to put the original forensic back on and see it changes anything. Need to go to the range before I report back. That sure cycle system seems a good solution, just the installation seems a hassle if I don’t have the tools.

If you go that route, StrangerDanger on this forum gets a vote from me. His prices are sensible, and his work and integrity are exemplary.

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I want to report back to your guys about my range trip yesterday.

 

1)I put the original forend back to the gun and the weight difference is about 8 oz(see the photos)

 

2)The problem remains with the Federal flite control 1145fps ammo. And I do not have federal flite control 1350fps to test it out but fortunately I haa a very cheap box of Suprema 12ga 00 buckshot which happens to be 1350fps. The whole box went cycle through without any problem and my shoulder could certainly feel the recoil was different between those two ammo.

 

That's somehow disappointing but I might face the three choices.

a. get rid of the gun

b. always use 1350fps ammo

3. change recoil spring or the whole recoil system.

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