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Hasuchobe

Benelli m4 firing issue

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Hello. I have a benelli M4 h2o edition that will fire the first round, feed the second, then not fire the next round. I have to pull the charging handle back if I want it to shoot. Any ideas why?

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How fast are you firing rounds? Sounds like the hammer is falling. Something is likely out of spec on the trigger, the disconnector or the hammer.

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Sure sounds like hammer follow.  For some reason, the disconnector is hanging up and not snapping forward fast enough to catch the hammer when the action cycles.  This is bad, because it could lead to doubling.

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19 hours ago, StrangerDanger said:

How fast are you firing rounds? Sounds like the hammer is falling. Something is likely out of spec on the trigger, the disconnector or the hammer.

Not fast at all.

18 hours ago, shootingsight said:

Sure sounds like hammer follow.  For some reason, the disconnector is hanging up and not snapping forward fast enough to catch the hammer when the action cycles.  This is bad, because it could lead to doubling.

How do I fix this problem 😂

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1 hour ago, Hasuchobe said:

Not fast at all.

How do I fix this problem 😂

Call Benelli customer service and have them take a look at it.

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54 minutes ago, Sukhoi_fan said:

Call Benelli customer service and have them take a look at it.

I dunno too much about the innards of the Benelli but surely I can fix it myself? Is the follower part of the trigger group? I can attempt a fix and simultaneously make some upgrades at the same time. Just need some guidance. 

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25 minutes ago, Hasuchobe said:

...surely I can fix it myself? Is the follower part of the trigger group? 

With all due respect, please call Benelli. 

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49 minutes ago, RPC said:

With all due respect, please call Benelli. 

Ok, but I'm out of warranty cuz I bought it from someone else. What am I looking at in terms of cost? (estimate)

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How about a little more information before contacting Benelli or sending it in.

Did you ask the previous owner if he/she was having the same issues?

Do you know how the action of the shotgun works? Try dry firing it, then cycle the bolt and see if the disconnector catches the hammer, or if it follows.

What kind of ammunition are you firing?  

Is the shotgun cleaned and lubed?

 

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It’s hard to say exactly where your problem lies without having replacement parts on hand to test. It could actually be the trigger frame itself, the trigger, hammer or disconnector. 

 

Pull the trigger pack out and cock the hammer with your thumb while pulling the trigger. See if you can get the hammer to slip past the disconnector. Then try to pull the hammer to the rear without your finger pulling the trigger and see if it slips past the trigger seer. 

 

It’s almost certainly one of those 4 components. You could buy aftermarket replacements such as the A&S trigger frame, and maybe a FFT trigger/disconnector/hammer set and swap out the parts to correct the issue. Maybe a slight chance the trigger pin bushing is bent or out of spec.

 

My guess is Benelli would take care of you even out of warranty since the firearm isn’t safe. If not, I’d gladly take a look at the trigger pack for you - just pay return shipping.

 

I think we could walk you thru everything yourself though. 

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16 hours ago, 808M4 said:

How about a little more information before contacting Benelli or sending it in.

Did you ask the previous owner if he/she was having the same issues?

Do you know how the action of the shotgun works? Try dry firing it, then cycle the bolt and see if the disconnector catches the hammer, or if it follows.

What kind of ammunition are you firing?  

Is the shotgun cleaned and lubed?

 

I did not because I just assumed benellis were reliable T_T

I don't know how the action works and I don't know what the parts look like. I had to open her up to put on a handguard (forend?) tho (given to me by the seller).

I was firing Fiocchi target shot and buck. Both cycled but would not fire without pulling back the charging handle.

Did not clean or lube, that's on my to-do list.

Edited by Hasuchobe

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2 hours ago, StrangerDanger said:

It’s hard to say exactly where your problem lies without having replacement parts on hand to test. It could actually be the trigger frame itself, the trigger, hammer or disconnector. 

 

Pull the trigger pack out and cock the hammer with your thumb while pulling the trigger. See if you can get the hammer to slip past the disconnector. Then try to pull the hammer to the rear without your finger pulling the trigger and see if it slips past the trigger seer. 

 

It’s almost certainly one of those 4 components. You could buy aftermarket replacements such as the A&S trigger frame, and maybe a FFT trigger/disconnector/hammer set and swap out the parts to correct the issue. Maybe a slight chance the trigger pin bushing is bent or out of spec.

 

My guess is Benelli would take care of you even out of warranty since the firearm isn’t safe. If not, I’d gladly take a look at the trigger pack for you - just pay return shipping.

 

I think we could walk you thru everything yourself though. 

Thanks, this is exactly what I needed. Gonna clean her up and go through this checklist. Will report back visual checks tomorrow. Probably going up to the range soon after.

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One more question about how it's malfunctioning:  After you fire the first shot and it feeds the second, when you pull the trigger is it a dead trigger, i.e., nothing happens, or does it go "click" like the hammer fell but nothing else happened?

Edited by truckcop

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41 minutes ago, Hasuchobe said:

I did not because I just assumed benellis were reliable T_T

I don't know how the action works and I don't know what the parts look like. I had to open her up to put on a handguard (forend?) tho (given to me by the seller).

I was firing Fiocchi target shot and buck. Both cycled but would not fire without pulling back the charging handle.

Did not clean or lube, that's on my to-do list.

Do you know the person you bought it from? Could you inquire with them, what type of ammo they've used and if they encountered firing issues? 

I could be wrong, but I suspect the action is not cycling all the way. 

Is the Fiocchi buckshot full power or low recoil? Next time you take the shotgun to the range, try bringing different, full power ammo. Load a single round and see if the bolt will lock back after firing. 

I can somewhat replicate the issue you're having with my Taran Tactical M4, but that's if I'm firing really fast and if the shotgun is dirty. I can pull the trigger before the bolt goes into battery, defeating the disconnector. 

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19 minutes ago, truckcop said:

One more question about how it's malfunctioning:  After you fire the first shot and it feeds the second, when you pull the trigger is it a dead trigger, i.e., nothing happens, or does it go "click" like the hammer fell but nothing else happened?

It goes click then nothing happens.

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22 minutes ago, 808M4 said:

Do you know the person you bought it from? Could you inquire with them, what type of ammo they've used and if they encountered firing issues? 

I could be wrong, but I suspect the action is not cycling all the way. 

Is the Fiocchi buckshot full power or low recoil? Next time you take the shotgun to the range, try bringing different, full power ammo. Load a single round and see if the bolt will lock back after firing. 

I can somewhat replicate the issue you're having with my Taran Tactical M4, but that's if I'm firing really fast and if the shotgun is dirty. I can pull the trigger before the bolt goes into battery, defeating the disconnector. 

I can message the person but it's been a while and I took the barrel off the m4 once to put on a forend so it could be my fault. Regardless, I have to fix it 😐

Off the top of my head I think the Fiocchi was 1200fps and 1275fps? Maybe 1300? Not sure if that's considered full power. I didn't load a single round... I'll be sure to do that next time on the range.

There was a good 5 seconds between trigger pulls so I'm not outrunning anything I hope :)

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If you can show pictures of the trigger pack removed from the shotgun it might help. Take them with the hammer cocked to the rear. 

 

Also is this a real H2O or a Cerakoted silver model?

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19 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

If you can show pictures of the trigger pack removed from the shotgun it might help. Take them with the hammer cocked to the rear. 

 

Also is this a real H2O or a Cerakoted silver model?

Good question... it was sold to me as an h2o along with the box but I dont remember if there are papers inside. Any serial numbers I can look for? It was a decent deal.1200 for h2o with extended tube, metal saddle thing for shells, surefire light and pressure pad, foregrip, and trigger (didn't install). I've seen better deals though for a similar price. Just saying he probably wasn't trying to scam me haha. If only it had a telescoping stock :(

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Given your response to truckcop about having a click after you pull the trigger, I no longer suspect the action short stroking due to low powered ammo. 

What StrangerDanger is referring to about your H2O, is that originally, Benelli H2O Models were finished in Robar NP3. Later H2O models were finished in a silver cerakote. 

I would be willing to take that problematic shotgun off your hands for $1,200.  

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1 hour ago, Hasuchobe said:

It goes click then nothing happens.

I believe you're experiencing the well-known and maddeningly elusive to fix, "Benelli Click".  Before proceeding, you should Google "Benelli Click" for a plethora of discussions of this very phenomenon.  The short version:  The when returning to battery after having been fired, the locking head is not fully rotating back into battery and thus not allowing the firing pin to to strike the primer on the shotgun shell.  It's only a tiny bit of rotation of the locking head that hasn't fully completed but it's enough.  While Benelli has always downplayed the issue, It has been enough of a problem universally that within the last couple of years they have re-designed the bolt/locking head mechanism to preclude this from happening on some of its current models.  Have fun with your research.

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Take the stock off and see if the receiver extension is silver. If it’s black, it’s a Cerakote model. The box should have a sticker with a model code like below;

11711 - Np3 model.

11794 or 11795 Cerakote model.

 

 

I’d still lean towards a fire control issue causing the problem. I troubleshot one doing this a few years ago. If I recall, the trigger was the out of spec part. If it was the Benelli Click issue, he would hear the hammer fall when pressing the trigger and no shot would be fired since the hammer would already be lowered against the back of the bolt carrier. There might be light primer strikes on the chambered round, but not always. 

Also note the aftermarket handguard installation. If not properly fitted, this can cause the barrel to be out of battery slightly. The easiest way to check this is to inspect where the seat ring is on the barrel. This ring seats against the face of the receiver. If there is any gap, something isn’t right.

This is assuming I read his diagnostics correctly. 

Edited by StrangerDanger
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You said there is a spare trigger in the parts you bought? Can you confirm if the OEM trigger is in the gun or an aftermarket one? Aftermarket will be marked US and may be NP3 plated. 

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26 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

If it was the Benelli Click issue, he would hear the hammer fall when pressing the trigger and no shot would be fired since the hammer would already be lowered against the back of the bolt carrier. There might be light primer strikes on the chambered round, but not always. 

Sorry, SD, but you've either mis-spoken here or there's something I'm not understanding in your response.   The first part of your that sentence, and  I agree, in a "click" situation you hear the hammer fall because it has been reset.  But then you immediately contradict that by saying the hammer is already lowered against the back of the bolt.  If the hammer is already lowered against the back of the bolt, as in the case of the mechanism not resetting, you would get a mushy trigger and hear no click.   

Edited by truckcop

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2 hours ago, truckcop said:

While Benelli has always downplayed the issue, It has been enough of a problem universally that within the last couple of years they have re-designed the bolt/locking head mechanism to preclude this from happening on some of its current models. 

Does anyone have side by side photos of the before bolt and the redesigned version?

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1 hour ago, StrangerDanger said:

Take the stock off and see if the receiver extension is silver. If it’s black, it’s a Cerakote model. The box should have a sticker with a model code like below;

11711 - Np3 model.

11794 or 11795 Cerakote model.

 

 

I’d still lean towards a fire control issue causing the problem. I troubleshot one doing this a few years ago. If I recall, the trigger was the out of spec part. If it was the Benelli Click issue, he would hear the hammer fall when pressing the trigger and no shot would be fired since the hammer would already be lowered against the back of the bolt carrier. There might be light primer strikes on the chambered round, but not always. 

Also note the aftermarket handguard installation. If not properly fitted, this can cause the barrel to be out of battery slightly. The easiest way to check this is to inspect where the seat ring is on the barrel. This ring seats against the face of the receiver. If there is any gap, something isn’t right.

This is assuming I read his diagnostics correctly. 

I think your comment about the handguard might be the root of the problem. It's a fab defense bm4 and it was so damn hard to put this handguard on, I had to basically squeeze the two halves together and throw in the screws as fast as I could for the two halves to come together. The barrel may not have been as flush as it should be. Comments online for this handguard are less than stellar.. but I got it for free hehe

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