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Solarswarm

New to forum first Benelli M4

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I just bought my first Benelli shotgun. I purchased it from a friend and I was doing some reading on 922r compliance. He installed the collapsible stock and a us made follower. I believe  the magazine tube is also us made. Is there any preference on the trigger kits from Freedom fighter vs Benelliparts .net. . 20190929_095831.thumb.jpg.b7ce800c77f012b8dbdedc2deee7a8d4.jpg

Thanks 20190929_100913.thumb.jpg.eff1caf4f0c4602c239d891a2b5e9c3c.jpg

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I'm going to break tradition here and probably ruffle some feathers on things like shotgun triggers, especially a combat-intended instrument such as the M4.  Leave the trigger alone.  Not to put too much of a fine point on it, a shotgun is a blunt instrument, not a precision sniper rifle.  I've shot uncountable numbers of shotgun-related training courses, a zillion rounds in academy training as an instructor, and a bazillion rounds at those little orange discs and feathered creatures that fly through the air.  Not once have I EVER thought gee, I wish I had a lighter/crisper/whatever's different trigger.  Never.  I have a safe full of Benellis of various stripes, including the M4, as well as Remingtons (mostly 870's), Brownings, an LC Smith that granddaddy owned, and probably a couple more that I can't think of right now.  I can't think of one reason to put another trigger into any of them (well, except for the 870, which requires a change of the entire trigger plate assembly if you want to switch to a left-handed safety).  And, I can think of a couple of reasons why not to.  Just do a search of aftermarket triggers for Benelli here and other places and you'll find all sorts of tales of woe about all manner of maladies after such installations.  I'd say, leave well enough alone.  But, hey, that's just me, a sampling of one. 😁  Let the flames begin!

Edited by truckcop

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I've not seen any wording within the compliance that says that it would apply to you or "possession" of that M4. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Anyone know of anyone who has ever been charged with compliance? I don't think it has ever happened. IF it has ... it was like 1 or maybe 2. It just doesn't happen.

Isn't compliance more for the importers or the FFls?

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The only place I’ve heard anything about 922 is from Fudd range masters. 
 

I do like a bigger trigger for slugs. Could I hit them without the better trigger? Sure. But if I’m shooting, I’m always after more inherent accuracy. Since you have a H2O, I’d get a FFT trigger pack since they come NP3 plated. I’ve never handled that set that Benelliparts sells, so I can’t comment on them. 
 

In the 50+ trigger packs that I’ve done, the biggest issues come from the OEM aluminum trigger frames. Their spec is very loose and can cause issues with the fire control components. Never an issue with the polymer or A&S frames. 

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1 hour ago, NineInchNails said:

I've not seen any wording within the compliance that says that it would apply to you or "possession" of that M4. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Anyone know of anyone who has ever been charged with compliance? I don't think it has ever happened. IF it has ... it was like 1 or maybe 2. It just doesn't happen.

Isn't compliance more for the importers or the FFls?

It's gungrabbers' language intended to prevent/discourage "the people" (us plebs) from "assembling" an "assault weapon" (whatever that is, I've got plenty of assault weapons in my kitchen and on my work bench in my shop) from that which is not *regarded* as an "assault weapon" (i.e. a shotgun with a magazine of five rounds or less, as if three extra rounds in the magazine makes any real difference).

Edited by Sukhoi_fan

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13 hours ago, Solarswarm said:

I just bought my first Benelli shotgun. I purchased it from a friend and I was doing some reading on 922r compliance. He installed the collapsible stock and a us made follower. I believe  the magazine tube is also us made. Is there any preference on the trigger kits from Freedom fighter vs Benelliparts .net. .

Thanks

Parroting the person above who told you DO NOT change out anything in the trigger group

Hes 1000% correct, its an INSANE idea, and ive heard endless horror stories from those that did.

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I'm about to start selling 922R compliant hammers for the M4 next week.

At issue is that according to 18 U.S. Code § 922 (r), you may not assemble a non-sporting shotgun that contains more than 10 of a list of foreign made parts.  The M4 with a 5 round tube is considered a sporting shotgun, and is exempt from the 10 part limit.  If you make it a 7 round tube, it is no longer 'sporting' and you need to reduce the foreign part count by 4.

US made tube is one, follower is another, collapsible stock is a third .... many shooters find the best option is replacing the hammer with a US made hammer for #4, to keep you legal.  This is why I started looking into making them.  Trigger mods are typically not made to improve the function any way, not to improve accuracy, but merely to replace a foreign part with a US one to keep you in compliance with the law.  So to that end, I will be selling USA made hammers by next week.  They just got back from the NiB coater today, so all I need to do is add the laser engraving for USA made.

Of course, while I was at it, I did fiddle with the design just a little.  I noticed in the two metal trigger groups I own that if you cock it with your finger off the trigger, the hammer can actually hang up on the trigger, slightly before it fully engages the sear, so you get a slight (and unnerving) 'click' when you touch the trigger as the hammer snaps fully into engagement on the sear.  This does not happen when the hammer is caught by the disconnector and resets, only if you cock it with your finger off the trigger.  The second thing I noticed (and heard from other people as well), that the factory hammer can sometimes follow.  So I tweeked the geometry and think I have eliminated both those issues.  Finally, all my hammers are NiB coated, because NiB makes the trigger pull smoother.

OK, one more, I designed a variant that makes it a 2-stage trigger.  I only made a dozen of this version, because I get it that shotguns do not live for precision triggers, though I did get a suggestion that it would help when shooting slugs.  So I call this development a case of throwing something at the wall and seeing if it sticks.  You'll never know if something is a good idea if you don't try it.

So in summary, I think 922(r) is a silly thing, and I get that the probability of getting caught cheating is low.  But I really do not want to go to Federal Prison.  So if you REALLY want to have a 7 round tube badly enough, I recommend spending a few dollars more to comply with the silly law.  If you can't afford the parts, just leave it as a 5 round tube.

Now, addressing the question that the OP really asked: I think my parts will offer a slight benefit over the factory option, as discussed, though I admit I have not tested any other US made parts.  I do not agree with the posts that are all doom & gloom about replacing parts in the FCG.  Most people can handle swapping out a part, and the worst that can happen is that you shoot the hammer spring across the room and have to spend time on your hands & knees searching.  Plus, you need to invest in a good set of C-clip pliers.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, shootingsight said:

If you make it a 7 round tube, it is no longer 'sporting' and you need to reduce the foreign part count by 4.
 

 

NOT TRUE..... you only need 4 parts if youre doing a collapsible stock AND a "normal" tube add on

If youre just doing a tube only, you need only THREE PARTS

Which parts can we replace on our Benelli M4 to obtain compliance? Federal law and the ATF told us that we must replace THREE parts from the following parts list to bring a BENELLI M4 semi-automatic shotgun into compliance:

  1. Receiver
  2. Barrel
  3. Bolt
  4. Bolt carrier
  5. Gas piston
  6. Trigger housing
  7. Trigger
  8. Hammer
  9. Disconnector
  10. Buttstock (with integral pistol grip)
  11. Forearm/handguard (forend)
  12. Magazine body
  13. Follower

Messing with the trigger group is a BAD idea,  and its far easier just to replace THOSE three parts highlighted in RED

 

 

Edited by kenw111
edit

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2 hours ago, shootingsight said:

The OP started by posting that he had a collapsible stock and a magazine tube, so for him it is 4 parts, isn't it?

The C-stock does make it a four part requirement when replacing the neutered mag tube with the normal mag tube.

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Posted (edited)
On 10/3/2019 at 6:40 PM, shootingsight said:

I'm about to start selling 922R compliant hammers for the M4 next week.

At issue is that according to 18 U.S. Code § 922 (r), you may not assemble a non-sporting shotgun that contains more than 10 of a list of foreign made parts.  The M4 with a 5 round tube is considered a sporting shotgun, and is exempt from the 10 part limit.  If you make it a 7 round tube, it is no longer 'sporting' and you need to reduce the foreign part count by 4.

US made tube is one, follower is another, collapsible stock is a third .... many shooters find the best option is replacing the hammer with a US made hammer for #4, to keep you legal.  This is why I started looking into making them.  Trigger mods are typically not made to improve the function any way, not to improve accuracy, but merely to replace a foreign part with a US one to keep you in compliance with the law.  So to that end, I will be selling USA made hammers by next week.  They just got back from the NiB coater today, so all I need to do is add the laser engraving for USA made.

Of course, while I was at it, I did fiddle with the design just a little.  I noticed in the two metal trigger groups I own that if you cock it with your finger off the trigger, the hammer can actually hang up on the trigger, slightly before it fully engages the sear, so you get a slight (and unnerving) 'click' when you touch the trigger as the hammer snaps fully into engagement on the sear.  This does not happen when the hammer is caught by the disconnector and resets, only if you cock it with your finger off the trigger.  The second thing I noticed (and heard from other people as well), that the factory hammer can sometimes follow.  So I tweeked the geometry and think I have eliminated both those issues.  Finally, all my hammers are NiB coated, because NiB makes the trigger pull smoother.

OK, one more, I designed a variant that makes it a 2-stage trigger.  I only made a dozen of this version, because I get it that shotguns do not live for precision triggers, though I did get a suggestion that it would help when shooting slugs.  So I call this development a case of throwing something at the wall and seeing if it sticks.  You'll never know if something is a good idea if you don't try it.

So in summary, I think 922(r) is a silly thing, and I get that the probability of getting caught cheating is low.  But I really do not want to go to Federal Prison.  So if you REALLY want to have a 7 round tube badly enough, I recommend spending a few dollars more to comply with the silly law.  If you can't afford the parts, just leave it as a 5 round tube.

Now, addressing the question that the OP really asked: I think my parts will offer a slight benefit over the factory option, as discussed, though I admit I have not tested any other US made parts.  I do not agree with the posts that are all doom & gloom about replacing parts in the FCG.  Most people can handle swapping out a part, and the worst that can happen is that you shoot the hammer spring across the room and have to spend time on your hands & knees searching.  Plus, you need to invest in a good set of C-clip pliers.

Hello sir. 

I’ve been watching your posts since maybe idea inception of your new hammer. 

I am both intrigued and inclined to buy but, given the criticality of the hammer within the working confines of an auto-shotgun, what compelling argument do you offer to purchase your offering (outside of the obvious 922r compliance gain)? 

*Asked with the utmost respect 

Edited by RPC

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No compelling argument other than the 922R.  Frankly, the only reason I started this was a request for someone who wanted a 922R hammer, and I figured that banging out an exact copy of the OEM was an easy enough job.  I learned quickly that it wasn't and I tweeked a couple of my dimensions.  As stated, I saw issues with a factory hammer where the trigger could hang when it was cocked, and I did get the hammer to drop when I was trying to reset the trigger once, so I massaged sear sizes to eliminate both those problems.

I added NiB coating, just because it makes everything slide nicer, and mine are more precise because they are wire EDM cut, versus stamped out sheet metal (not sure that does anything though).  And I made a 2-stage just to see what people thought.

Bottom line, if you do not need 922R, I don't think my hammer offers upgrades that cost justify replacing a factory hammer, unless you have had issues with following or with the hammer hangup.  However if you do need 922R, I hope that the minor updates I made (plus having them in stock) will tip the consumer choice towards my hammer over other 922R offerings that either have issues, or are not in stock.

As to all the concern about criticality of hammer and the doom and gloom about working on a trigger group, I make entire trigger hammer assemblies for semi-auto rifles that are adjustable match grade.  This little hammer is way less complex.  It is literally just a single part swap.

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I appreciate the thoughtful response. As a matter of fact, I myself need just one more component to achieve 922r compliance after installing a Carrier Comp 7-rd tube and CC follower, thus my interest. 

I’ll stay tuned for updates on readiness. 

-Rex

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