kenw111 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 This is about TACTICAL USE / BUILD of a Benelli………NOT skeet, not birds from a blind! etc Typical accurate but 100% IGNORANT statement ::: “Again, go shoot skeet with an optic and see how good you do and how fast you are.”. TRUE, but skeet / birds is NOT a tactical setup for a Benelli M2 / M4 !! 99% of which is SLUGS and 00 BUCK for CQB use……Iron sights are wonderful for countless reasons, but a holographic display is best in most instances for accuracy in use of CQB, Eotech is the best holographic display, but an insanely ignorant, obnoxious horrific idea to put on a ANY BENELLI , ever. ….. I love EOTECHs and own 7 of them, but NONE OF THEM are mounted on any of my Benellis for what should be a totally obvious set of reasons >>>>>Option #1 below: Eotech are the best HWS (holographic weapons sight) but they’re HUGE and not for shotgun use, ever PERIOD… (I own 7 of them! I love eotechs)….They are the WORST IDEA imaginable to mount on any Benelli, the mass of same will SHEER the screws (seen it happen 2 times to others) holding the pic rail to the frame, also too, it will splay / enlarge the threaded screw holes on the frame……not only is this absurd, its like a elephant riding on a horse……Its both sketch and cringe worthy to see one mounted on a Benelli….. I love the heck out of EOTECHs!,…..but that is NEVER going on a Benelli for countless reasons! Ughhhh!. >>>>Option #2 below: (now we are talking!!!!) Either Vortex Razor Red dot (what I use on my Benellis) or the Trijicon are the ACTUAL HWS (holographic weapons sight) that should be used on a Benelli!! Incredible FOV for CQB or dropping a slug ACCURATELY on a subject at 50+ yards (if needed). ……….Option #2 (most logical in my conclusion , see option #3 below) does NOT co-witness with the iron sights and that is 100% exactly what I want, I do not want the busy &$%((^(#!!! Mess of iron sights in the window of my HWS (holographic weapons sight) !!. https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-razor-red-dot.html?vortex_reticle=942 >>>>Option #3 below: Sleek, low profile, the “sexy” option…..a Trijicon on the sclarworks……PROBLEM???? See picture below…..i tried this setup on a buddies gun and its HORRIFIC, I hated it, I do NOT NOT NOT want iron sights sticking its ‘butt’ in my face occluding my HWS (holographic weapons sight) WINDOW!! Of course this is subjective, but I hate to Hades and back of having my HWS (holographic weapons sight) occluded by anything, …….i laugh every time someone praises the co-witnessing of iron sights with optics…….Ughhhh! https://scalarworks.com/shop/optic-mounts/sync-trijicon-rmr-mount/ >>>>Option #4 below: Or something like this where an Elephant is riding on the back of a pony ……. (rolls eyes)…… Seen several Benellis have something like this The Benelli frame is ALUMINUM, the shock and sheer force from such a mass will , given time, SHEER the bolts from the frame, but will with 100% certainly splay / enlarge the holes on the frame….. this is NOT a STEEL FRAMED Remington 870 !! Top heavy disaster / mess,…….. you just do NOT put optics like this on a Benelli, …….. EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 If you don't like the obstructions from the rear sight, why not remove the entire rear sight assembly? You'll cut about 3 ounces of weight. You could also remove the front sight hood to unclutter the sight picture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw111 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Share Posted November 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said: If you don't like the obstructions from the rear sight, why not remove the entire rear sight assembly? You'll cut about 3 ounces of weight. You could also remove the front sight hood to unclutter the sight picture. logical and reasonable, yes. nods head Contra-indicative use premise being however that all battery operated sights under adverse conditions take a dump on themselves given a chance, .....and redundancy is god. i.e. backup iron sights. hugs and kisses 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Even if the sight was dead, you could use the window as a large ghost ring that would be good enough for shotgunning distances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw111 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Share Posted November 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said: Even if the sight was dead, you could use the window as a large ghost ring that would be good enough for shotgunning distances. a dead window vs. the rear sights....... rear sights win. However your premise is accurate , .....generally. NOT generally however for slugs and 00 buck,......these are not bird guns throwing a swath of tiny pellets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout_21 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Red dots are not holographic weapon sights (HWS). Two different technologies at play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 ??? Who is talking about birdshot? You should know your buckshot load pattern at various ranges. None of the other options presented here can even see the iron sights. They’re obstructed by the optic housing. Maybe some have a wait-a-minute quick detach lever on their base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw111 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Share Posted November 4, 2019 40 minutes ago, Scout_21 said: Red dots are not holographic weapon sights (HWS). Two different technologies at play. not really, theyre both laser or laser from beam-splitter projections on semi-mirrored glass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw111 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Share Posted November 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said: ??? Who is talking about birdshot? You should know your buckshot load pattern at various ranges. None of the other options presented here can even see the iron sights. They’re obstructed by the optic housing. Maybe some have a wait-a-minute quick detach lever on their base. name me one TINY red dot HWS that has a quick detach throw lever. maybe one exists, but not that i know of . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout_21 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, kenw111 said: not really, theyre both laser or laser from beam-splitter projections on semi-mirrored glass False, red dots use LEDs not lasers... Edited November 4, 2019 by Scout_21 to add Dwight humor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw111 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Share Posted November 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Scout_21 said: Red dots use LEDs not lasers... some are (the junk ones), not all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout_21 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, kenw111 said: some are (the junk ones), not all. Aimpoint Micro sights are junk? Looks like the vortex razor red dot is junk too then... Edited November 4, 2019 by Scout_21 spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw111 Posted November 4, 2019 Author Share Posted November 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Scout_21 said: False, red dots use LEDs not lasers... most lasers ARE LEDs son..... both are point-source light emissions. glad i could fix that confusion for you 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout_21 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 You're still confusing the matter. You're now arguing that both sights have a "light source" so they are the same. Tell me why a real HWS won't change under magnification but a red dot will then... if they are "the same" Educate yourself man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout_21 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, kenw111 said: most lasers ARE LEDs son..... both are point-source light emissions. glad i could fix that confusion for you But certainly not all LEDs are lasers... Did you ever wonder why real HWS have such a short battery life compared to red dot sights? Please look and see what type of point-source light emitter your vortex razor uses..and then aimpoint and trijicon. Are they still junk? Edited November 4, 2019 by Scout_21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonyman74 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Well it seams Kenw111 is the go to guy for optics. Heck, he even used my pic in this post. The way I see it, I put it on MY M4 THAT I PAID FOR!!!!!!! And it the optic comes flying off it's no ones fault but my own. If that happens then I WILL BE THE ONE TO PAY AND FIX IT!!!!! Not sure why the thread I posted was removed other that the few guys that was going back and forth over who was right. I honestly could care less. But its a damn shame that someone can't post a thread on here without the KIND OF EVERYTHING BENELLI highjacking the thread because someone does something he doesn't like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 HAIL The King! jokes aside, I owe you an apology sonyman74. I'm sorry I contributed the hijacking of your thread sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) ...and to my knowledge no red dot or holographic sights use a laser. They are all led illuminated. Most lasers today are led powered though... I'm a certified, bonafide optics repair technician, licensed by zeiss and Leica geosystems. I even have a fancy name badge!? Edited November 5, 2019 by Jolly Roger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout_21 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said: ...and to my knowledge no red dot or holographic sights use a laser. They are all led illuminated. Most lasers today are led powered though... I'm a certified, bonafide optics repair technician, licensed by zeiss and Leica geosystems. I even have a fancy name badge!? Eotech HWS are class 1 laser products... or maybe they just enjoy putting that sticker on all of their HWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout_21 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 And the vortex HWS is also laser based. https://vortexoptics.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/831/product_id/1695/ AFAIK all HWS use a laser to project the hologram. I would love to know of an LED based HWS... that would solve so many battery life issues actual HWS face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout_21 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 29 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said: ...and to my knowledge no red dot or holographic sights use a laser. They are all led illuminated. Most lasers today are led powered though... I'm a certified, bonafide optics repair technician, licensed by zeiss and Leica geosystems. I even have a fancy name badge!? Just to be cheeky... looks like I'm going with swarovski for my next optics purchase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 That's because they're using laser type diodes. Its not projecting a laser, just led light. They do produce an emitted photon at 808nm (green reticle) so by law the have to have the sticker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Scout_21 said: Just to be cheeky... looks like I'm going with swarovski for my next optics purchase That's ok, Zeiss has sold its soul to the devil anyway.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout_21 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 So then no lasers at all are involved in the projection of the hologram? Then why use a laser diode? Why not save the energy and just use a red LED like red dots? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_weapon_sight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scout_21 said: So then no lasers at all are involved in the projection of the hologram? Then why use a laser diode? Why not save the energy and just use a red LED like red dots? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_weapon_sight probably all in the delivery system. I didn't design it, lol. In the red dots, the led is carried by a fiber optic to the reflection emitter. The holographic led goes through a screen which determines the shape projected onto your reflective glass. like a cross or circle reticle. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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