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REALITY CHECK: Benelli TACTICAL M4/ M2 OPTICS


kenw111

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4 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said:

probably all in the delivery system. I didn't design it, lol.

In the red dots, the led is carried by a fiber optic to the reflection emitter.

The holographic led goes through a screen which determines the shape projected onto your reflective glass. like a cross or circle reticle. 

.

 

I think that answer is still overlooking some fundamentals. Perhaps my terminology doesn’t match up. From my understanding of holography one uses a laser for projection...hence the hws.   
 

The class 1 laser designation predates green reticles. 
 

I suppose I just want to know 100% that there are no laser used in holographic weapon sights and why Eotech and vortex would jump through the extra hoops of labeling their hws as class 1 laser products. 

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Just now, Jolly Roger said:

Its a laser of sorts but not what we stereotypically think as one being..

 

 

Holographic-vs-Red-Dot-EOTech-1024x447.jpg

Yes but the laser based projected hologram is why hws reticles don’t get magnified when using a magnifier behind the sight unlike red dots that do get magnified. At least that my understanding...
 
I never claimed that hws send out laser light externally of the device like laser sights.... if that’s what you mean by traditional understanding. 

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13 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said:

Its a laser of sorts but not what we stereotypically think as one being..

here they call the "screen" Holographic Grating...

 

 

Holographic-vs-Red-Dot-EOTech-1024x447.jpg

Also, wouldn't one need a focused source of illumination like a laser to project the hologram.  I would imagine replacing the laser diode with a traditional red led wouldn't give enough focused light energy to make a clear reticle.  The led light would project outward from the emitter in all forward facing directions... It would probably just be a dim blur... if enough light made it through the grating and multiple lenses/mirrors to one's eye.

 

I'm not trying to be rude... I just want a clear understanding of the system and why it does or does not use a laser.  

 

 

This image represents my understanding of the LED vs laser for use in these sights

Screen-Shot-2014-02-11-at-12.13.08-AM.pn

 

Edited by Scout_21
image
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2 minutes ago, Scout_21 said:

Also, wouldn't one need a focused source of illumination like a laser to project the hologram.  I would imagine replacing the laser diode with a traditional red led wouldn't give enough focused light energy to make a clear reticle.  The led light would project outward from the emitter in all forward facing directions... It would probably just be a dim blur... if enough light made it through the grating and multiple lenses/mirrors to one's eye.

 

I'm not trying to be rude... I just want a clear understanding of the system and why it does or does not use a laser.  

No rudeness taken at all.  Again though, I dont make or design these things. 

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1 minute ago, Jolly Roger said:

Blue line is how some of those red dot use fiber optics to run emitted light.. green thing is a pc board.......sorry for my bad paint skills..

forun.jpg

Oh yes, the light collection based trijicons (and other makers)  sometimes they have an led as a backup.  I suppose that brings up the more inclusive "reflex sight" terminology 

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From Wiki:

"

A laser diode, (LD), injection laser diode (ILD), or diode laser is a semiconductor device similar to a light-emitting diode in which a diode pumped directly with electrical current can create lasing conditions at the diode's junction.[1]:3 Laser diodes can directly convert electrical energy into light. Driven by voltage, the doped p-n-transition allows for recombination of an electron with a hole. Due to the drop of the electron from a higher energy level to a lower one, radiation, in the form of an emitted photon is generated. This is spontaneous emission. Stimulated emission can be produced when the process is continued and further generate light with the same phase, coherence and wavelength.

The choice of the semiconductor material determines the wavelength of the emitted beam, which in today's laser diodes range from infra-red to the UV spectrum. Laser diodes are the most common type of lasers produced, with a wide range of uses that include fiber optic communications, barcode readers, laser pointers, CD/DVD/Blu-ray disc reading/recording, laser printing, laser scanning and light beam illumination. With the use of a phosphor like that found on white LEDs, Laser diodes can be used for general illumination.

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Green lasers need a crystal to transform the 800 to 1050 nm light wave into a green 530ish light spectrum..

 

Dont quote me on the numbers its been awhile.....good reading though if you were to look it up....well for people who like to read a bout nerdy shit.

Edited by Jolly Roger
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Just now, Jolly Roger said:

Green lasers need a crystal to transform the 800 to 1050 nm light wave into a green 530ish light spectrum..

I thought that's why eotech didn't come out with a green reticle until recently even though cheap green led based sights were popping up on the market.  The green eotechs also have a shorter run time (600 vs 1000 hrs) compared to the red laser diode based systems.  More energy needed to run that diode for that wavelength

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1 minute ago, Scout_21 said:

I thought that's why eotech didn't come out with a green reticle until recently even though cheap green led based sights were popping up on the market.  The green eotechs also have a shorter run time (600 vs 1000 hrs) compared to the red laser diode based systems.  More energy needed to run that diode for that wavelength

I dont know, maybe the the 1050 nm wave length diode needs more power to push its way through a "K" crystal?  and thats even if it uses a crystal instead of just a reg diode to begin with...

it probably does though because it will need the photon wave to stay true for use with other optics like magnifiers..

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Heres your answer ....had to dig a bit..

https://global-sei.com/news/press/12/prs062_s.html

"

Currently, green lasers are generated by converting the wavelength of infrared laser light from a light source using optical materials, but the light source is large and expensive. In addition, conventional GaN-based green lasers have difficulties achieving sufficient luminosity as their performance is limited to an output power of several tens of milliwatt at a wavelength of 520 nm or less.

 

To overcome these challenges, Sumitomo Electric and Sony collaborated in the development of a true green semiconductor laser for practical use, drawing on Sumitomo Electric’s semi-polar GaN substrate"

Edited by Jolly Roger
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1 hour ago, Scout_21 said:

Just to be cheeky... looks like I'm going with swarovski for my next optics purchase ;) 

It's your funeral after all the schooling we got here today! If you don't buy whatever his name is you're running tier two at best. Right down to the baby crap brown painted stock with Sgt. Frog green spots.

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5 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

It's your funeral after all the schooling we got here today! If you don't buy whatever his name is you're running tier two at best. Right down to the baby crap brown painted stock with Sgt. Frog green spots.

like a damn poet Stranger!  

Edited by Jolly Roger
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24 minutes ago, Jolly Roger said:

I wasn't very good at explaining things ....and Im old and have a hard time recalling any of it in the first place....sorry Scout_21.  

No worries. I don’t think I was disproven about the laser aspect in HWS. I suppose it comes down to how a laser is defined.  I was relying on the coherent (laser) vs incoherent (led) light source used to project a hologram. Both sources use diodes but it may be that the lines are blurred as technology progresses. 
 

Red dot vs HWS are different systems though at least through the magnification aspect and the front glass piece of a true HWS is for protection and isn’t needed for the sight to operate. 

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