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DFWSFO

Surefire M300 vs M600DF Light for M4

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Trying to pick the best light for my new M4. I was originally going to put one of my M600s on an IWC mount. However, this gun will be almost exclusively used for home defense. I've heard issues in terms of thumbs being jammed by the M600s due to recoil and was wondering if the shorter Mini Scout was the ticket. Dont know that you need more than 500 lumens for indoor use, but wanted to get the group's thoughts. Thank you! 

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Have you looked at the Intellibeam version of the Scout? M600IB model. It auto gates itself from 100-600 lumens depending on how much light blow back you’re receiving from things like indoor walls. It rapidly changes so fast in output that you barely even notice it.

 

The m300 and m600 tailcaps are the same. So it will jam your thumb if you’re riding your thumb on the momentary button and fire a 12 gauge round. 
 

I’he been working out a new light mounting solution which uses the 13” Briley rail, an IWC inline MLOK light mount, the light of your choosing mounted far forward on the ejection port side for a right hand shooter so the bezel or the light is flush with the muzzle. Then a Unity Tactical Hot Button is installed which is essentially a push button momentary/on/off button with a 9 inch wire routed to the left side rail roughly where you want your support hand thumb to reach. Slap on rail covers that you like on the MLOK and add a QD angled sling mount to the rail all the way forward at 9 o’clock. You’d have less risk of jamming your thumb, but not completely eliminated. 

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25 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

Have you looked at the Intellibeam version of the Scout? M600IB model. It auto gates itself from 100-600 lumens depending on how much light blow back you’re receiving from things like indoor walls. It rapidly changes so fast in output that you barely even notice it.

 

The m300 and m600 tailcaps are the same. So it will jam your thumb if you’re riding your thumb on the momentary button and fire a 12 gauge round. 
 

I’he been working out a new light mounting solution which uses the 13” Briley rail, an IWC inline MLOK light mount, the light of your choosing mounted far forward on the ejection port side for a right hand shooter so the bezel or the light is flush with the muzzle. Then a Unity Tactical Hot Button is installed which is essentially a push button momentary/on/off button with a 9 inch wire routed to the left side rail roughly where you want your support hand thumb to reach. Slap on rail covers that you like on the MLOK and add a QD angled sling mount to the rail all the way forward at 9 o’clock. You’d have less risk of jamming your thumb, but not completely eliminated. 

So, this is really interesting. I was curious about the Briley mount, but it just looks so incredibly heavy. This shotgun is already a beast, so I was wary of adding more weight. 

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You’ll definitely end up adding half a pound of weight at least. Is it worth eliminating barrel shadowing? I can’t say yet, I’m waiting for my Trump bucks to stimulate the economy with. 

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On 4/8/2020 at 9:39 AM, DFWSFO said:

So, this is really interesting. I was curious about the Briley mount, but it just looks so incredibly heavy. This shotgun is already a beast, so I was wary of adding more weight. 

8" Handguard = 9.5 oz

13" Handguard = 12.9 oz

As someone else mentioned, Briley has removed the M4 from their "Parts and Services" page so I'm guessing they are working their slight fitment issues before the start selling again.

I like the feel of the OEM split handguards as my left support thumb fits where Benelli wants it to fit at the front end of the handguard.  It gives me a little more purchase and grip.  The Briley really wraps almost completely over the top of barrel which I personally don't need (added weight as well).  And where my left thumb would rest appears to be vertical and not indented as with the OEM.  While I like the shopping list Stranger came up with, there doesn't seem to be any MLOK holes to mount the Unity Tactical Hot Button for a natural fit and feel as well.  Looks like it would be to high or too low for natural thumb placement.

Stranger, as the sage of this site, I'm gonna let you spend your Trump Bucks on your set-up and wait for your range report!  See what a nice guy I am?!  🤪

DFWSFO -

Checkout more great discussion and some pretty sweet rigs on this thread:  

 

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I know, I was hoping someone would run with the list ahead of me and cut their teeth! I kept looking at the rail and tried to decide if I could chop the rail up some to cut weight. Mainly on those chicken wing risers except for where the light mounts. 

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1 hour ago, StrangerDanger said:

I know, I was hoping someone would run with the list ahead of me and cut their teeth! I kept looking at the rail and tried to decide if I could chop the rail up some to cut weight. Mainly on those chicken wing risers except for where the light mounts. 

Was thinking the same thing.  Buy a handguard for over $300 then put it on a bandsaw and a grinder and tear the crap out of it!  Seems as though Sigma finds it groovy as is!  Maybe I'm overthinking it. 

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We need an Ava style mount that wraps around the area of the front sight post and offers up a MLOK so we can use the OEM handguards. I’m sure I could fit the Hot Button to the OEM handguard. 

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If you guys are in the market for Sure Fire Scout series weapon lights, good luck.  The normal sources out there have some stuff but not at the best prices and availability of remote switches and tail caps is limited.  I spoke with Impact Weapons Components (IWC) yesterday and Earl said Sure Fire was hard to come buy.  Yup, I tried ebay, Amazon, Optics, Brownells, Midway and others and it's a tough find unless you want to pay top dollar.  The best price I found was through IWC for a M330C at $220 and I bought one.

In speaking with Earl (IWC), I brought up the tail cap switch and the protective shroud jamming thumbs.  In so many words, "Hogwash!"  I tried to defend SD's honor but eventually dropped it! 😀  Actually he was a good guy to talk with.  In short, looks like IWC put the AVA folks out of business with a "preferred" mount.  They have also teamed-up with Freedom Fighter (as have Scalarworks and A&S) which has allowed them to move more product, and, seems to be making FFT the one stop shop for the M4.

So good luck on Sure Fire shopping and if anyone has a Sure Fire DS-07 for sale give me a buzz.  That's the combo tailcap with switch and receptacle for the remote tape switch.

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Earl’s a good guy. Always helped me out when I had some obscure technical question. I wish it was hogwash, I broke my thumb nail several times riding the momentary switch while firing heavy hitting buckshot. I never use the constant on switch. It’s always momentary and as little as necessary. If there were a source for those caps, they’d sell them. Throwing them in the lathe is pretty easy work. 
 

Everyone is buying up all the good stuff this month. I’ve had more client contact in the past month than in the past year combined. I’m having a hell of a time sourcing parts for builds. 

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11 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

Earl’s a good guy. Always helped me out when I had some obscure technical question. I wish it was hogwash, I broke my thumb nail several times riding the momentary switch while firing heavy hitting buckshot. I never use the constant on switch. It’s always momentary and as little as necessary. If there were a source for those caps, they’d sell them. Throwing them in the lathe is pretty easy work. 
 

Everyone is buying up all the good stuff this month. I’ve had more client contact in the past month than in the past year combined. I’m having a hell of a time sourcing parts for builds. 

I figured you probably had spoken with him in the past.  I told him, "...well there's a guy on the Benelli USA forum that kind'a knows his shit and has put a lot of rounds through the tube and he says..."  I didn't drop your name.  It's all good!

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I don’t know, KennyG called me out and said all the rounds I put thru the M4 were phony in capital letters!

 

If you’re screwing around with weak value pack birdshot, there isn’t much recoil present to jam your thumb. As you step up to high brass loads and particularly slugs, you best have a good hold of the forearm and a solid shoulder behind the stock. The rubber nipple of the Scout light button is far more forgiving than that aluminum shroud. 
 

I’m sure many have found out for themselves!

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Posted (edited)

I have the Surefire M300C on the IWC mount. Got it as a combo (light and mount) from Earl. I bought it back in December and he had them in stock then. It's 500 lumens and plenty bright enough for my needs and it's light weight. I've found that much brighter is too much, unless you're trying to light up long distances.

Edited by CobraBG
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I have a M300 on my 590 and a M600 scout on my M4. Honestly, the M600 does not seem to have twice the lumen output @ 1000 vs 500 for the M300. It's brighter but, not twice as much.

Anyway, I think the scout line are fantastic lights, bombproof.

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On 4/8/2020 at 12:12 PM, StrangerDanger said:

 

 

The m300 and m600 tailcaps are the same. So it will jam your thumb if you’re riding your thumb on the momentary button and fire a 12 gauge round. 
 

SD, I've heard that the Z61 tail cap can fit on the M300 scout lights.  This would avoid the thumb jam.  Do you have any experience with this tail cap? 

It looks very similar to your lathed down version.

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3 hours ago, Milspec said:

SD, I've heard that the Z61 tail cap can fit on the M300 scout lights.  This would avoid the thumb jam.  Do you have any experience with this tail cap? 

It looks very similar to your lathed down version.

It will work but it may be hard to find. I used to buy the ED2 lights on the original Ava Tactical mounts. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2020 at 9:07 AM, CobraBG said:

I have the Surefire M300C on the IWC mount. Got it as a combo (light and mount) from Earl. I bought it back in December and he had them in stock then. It's 500 lumens and plenty bright enough for my needs and it's light weight. I've found that much brighter is too much, unless you're trying to light up long distances.

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Edited by adalah

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So, I’m also looking at the 300 vs 600DF.

 

both are basically the same price ~$200. Is there a reason that I should not get the 600DF for home defense? It’s a little heavier, longer, and brighter but wI’ll that make it less useful?

 

 

thx

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I never got the appeal of the M300 unless you had an extremely short firearm. Even if you have the 14” entry M4, the M600 will fit better. 
 

With the M4, you benefit by having the longer light since it reduces barrel shadowing. If you just want the lower output, there are plenty of old Scout lamps that have much lower outputs. 

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So, this may be a dumb question, but how exactly do Scout lights mount to the IWC Scout Mount? I have one of the Pros that comes with the low profile 1913 mount, so I just used the 1913 version of the IWC. However, I don’t see how it would actually be screwed onto the scout mount otherwise. Close up pic below of mine: 

 

image.jpg

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11 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

Never messed with a pro series Scout light. It doesn’t look like you can remove the mount from the light body. 
 

What I would do is buy a Modlite 18650 replacement body for your DF model light. The lamp head and tailcap will fit right on. 
https://modlite.com/collections/light-bodies/products/modlite-18650-body

Ah, and then that replacement body us screwed directly into the two holes on the scout mount?

 

Still debating whether I like the current light position or not. One benefit is that it doesn’t jam into my thumb from recoil, but the downside is that I do have to adjust my hand position to activate.

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Correct on the mounting. Screws in from beneath the IWC mount. 
 

How easy does the light pivot on that mount? Can it shoot loose and start flopping?

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14 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

Correct on the mounting. Screws in from beneath the IWC mount. 
 

How easy does the light pivot on that mount? Can it shoot loose and start flopping?

Thanks, that’s helpful!

It’s rock solid. You basically can set your preferred angle and then tighten the screws at the top. I’ve put a bunch of buckshot and slugs through it and it’s stayed put. 

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