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Trijicon SRO with Scalarworks Sync mount, change my mind.


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I picked up my brand new Benelli M4 (11707) back in December and I have been buying and installing upgrades for it along the way when I have had some extra monies to do so.  I really want to get a SRO with a sync mount but I had a question about my front sight and running a red dot.

 

I recently installed a orange outlined XS dot front night sight on my M4.  I was wondering if anyone else is running this kind of front site with a RMR/SRO or any other type of red dot setup and had any issues picking up the red dot over the front sight in certain lighting conditions if any at all?

 

Thanks for everyone's advice and feedback in advance.

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3 minutes ago, M2_shootr said:

The SRO has a few improvements over the RMR.

However, it’s shape contributes to less strength than the RMR

Yeah, the RMR does seem to be a little more rugged and robust in that category.  My main concern was having a good clear field of view. 

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44 minutes ago, bigoo7e said:

Yeah, the RMR does seem to be a little more rugged and robust in that category.  My main concern was having a good clear field of view. 

Shoot with both eyes open=clear field of view.

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You shouldn’t have any issues since the SRO sits a little higher than the RMR. Now, how much you can see the irons thru the optic may be less than ideal for the same reason. 
 

We’ve been removing iron sights a lot when using a RDS optic. It cuts weight and reduced sight picture clutter. 

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9 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

You shouldn’t have any issues since the SRO sits a little higher than the RMR. Now, how much you can see the irons thru the optic may be less than ideal for the same reason. 
 

We’ve been removing iron sights a lot when using a RDS optic. It cuts weight and reduced sight picture clutter. 

That’s something to consider... I didn’t mention this before but the XS sight I installed is noticeably taller than the stock Benelli front sight.  By how much, I didn’t measure, but it does sit up higher and I know I’m going to have to adjust it some when I take it to the range because it’s POA and POI is going to be different since swapping the front sight out.

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2 hours ago, M2_shootr said:

The SRO has a few improvements over the RMR.

However, it’s shape contributes to less strength than the RMR

I believe the RMR was initially a design for semi automatic  handguns. Therefore, if it can handle that sort of recoil, there ain't a shotgun built that will have anything more than  a negligible effect. Unless of course you have to use it as a club. IMHO....... 

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Those XS sights are designed to be used so you put the tritium dot completely over the X of your target rather than the top edge of the front sight post. I have a set for a Glock 36 when they were named Ashley big dots. That might be why they’re a little taller. 
 

They were great for easy pick up and speed, but terrible for accuracy beyond minute of man. The front sight blade was also much wider than the oem ones so you obstruct a lot of the target. The big dots were designed more for room distances to contact shots. Push a B27 out to 15 yards and that dot obstructs the 8 ring in. 
 

For me, the perceived speed in target alignment wasn’t worth the accuracy penalty. If I shot the G36 more, I’d probably install a different set of sights. That’s just my personal preference though. I’d be happy to hear your results on the M4 though. 

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I'll be curious to see how you like the combo of a red dot sight and the orange dot on your XS front post.  The first time I shot an orange clay launched off a steel popper I was distracted for a nanosecond between the red dot and orange clay.  There were 3 such targets back-to-back during a local 3-Gun and I missed all 3 clays.  I found it distracting in the fast target acq. required for finding the clay and nailing it.  Needless to say, I as pretty disappointed in myself!!  I can't believe I just admitted that to the group -- It must be Sunday and I just went to confessional!

8 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

Those XS sights are designed to be used so you put the tritium dot completely over the X of your target rather than the top edge of the front sight post. I have a set for a Glock 36 when they were named Ashley big dots. That might be why they’re a little taller. 

They were great for easy pick up and speed, but terrible for accuracy beyond minute of man. The front sight blade was also much wider than the oem ones so you obstruct a lot of the target. The big dots were designed more for room distances to contact shots. Push a B27 out to 15 yards and that dot obstructs the 8 ring in. 

Agree with SD.  I have installed and experimented with several different sight combinations on my gen 1 Glock 17.  I had XS for a while and liked them fine enough, but eventually found them to be too fat as SD stated.  Same with Speed Sights.  eventually ended up with Dawson Precision using a black rear square notch and a red fiber optic post.  The notch and post are paired to give me enough vision on both sides of the post for target alignment given older eyes and reading glasses condition.

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3 minutes ago, Birdog19 said:

I'll be curious to see how you like the combo of a red dot sight and the orange dot on your XS front post.  The first time I shot an orange clay launched off a steel popper I was distracted for a nanosecond between the red dot and orange clay.  There were 3 such targets back-to-back during a local 3-Gun and I missed all 3 clays.  I found it distracting in the fast target acq. required for finding the clay and nailing it.  Needless to say, I as pretty disappointed in myself!!  I can't believe I just admitted that to the group -- It must be Sunday and I just went to confessional!

Agree with SD.  I have installed and experimented with several different sight combinations on my gen 1 Glock 17.  I had XS for a while and liked them fine enough, but eventually found them to be too fat as SD stated.  Same with Speed Sights.  eventually ended up with Dawson Precision using a black rear square notch and a red fiber optic post.  The notch and post are paired to give me enough vision on both sides of the post for target alignment given older eyes and reading glasses condition.

On my CCW and duty Glock 19 gen 4, I ended up buying a set of the Trijicon HD’s, but found the front sight height to be wrong. I have a Ransom Rest which confirmed this. The groups were about 3-4” high at 15 yards. I was always grouping low with the traditional top of the front sight blade hold. At closer ranges I transition to the cover the X with the tritium dot hot to account for parallax. To make this sight height work, you’d have to align the rear sight tritium with the top edge of the front sight which was really awkward. 
 

The Trijicon set comes with a front sight that is .215” high. So I bought a .245” high front. This has helped me significantly. 
 

50 round Arizona quals from last year:
 

6391EB7F-A3BF-42B5-8C8A-CF49181C475A.jpeg

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3 minutes ago, StrangerDanger said:

I know! Pathetic! can’t pit an ace at a 1000 yards like all the other guys on the internet!

RIGHT?!  I'm a hero on the internet, just ask me!  OBTW, what was the distance to the target?

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1 hour ago, StrangerDanger said:

Those XS sights are designed to be used so you put the tritium dot completely over the X of your target rather than the top edge of the front sight post. I have a set for a Glock 36 when they were named Ashley big dots. That might be why they’re a little taller. 
 

They were great for easy pick up and speed, but terrible for accuracy beyond minute of man. The front sight blade was also much wider than the oem ones so you obstruct a lot of the target. The big dots were designed more for room distances to contact shots. Push a B27 out to 15 yards and that dot obstructs the 8 ring in. 
 

For me, the perceived speed in target alignment wasn’t worth the accuracy penalty. If I shot the G36 more, I’d probably install a different set of sights. That’s just my personal preference though. I’d be happy to hear your results on the M4 though. 

Would it be possible to raise my rear sight height up to compensate?  If I read your response correctly it sounds like me installing this XS front sight has now turned my M4 with a hold over “combat” style sight picture to where I have to hold the front dot over what I want to hit, correct?

 

I am not a huge fan of this type site picture if that’s the case.  I do want to at least give them a shot and take them to the range first before I get a red dot on there to see how it does.  I love the fact that the site collects light and stores it temporarily around the tritium insert.  Sucker glows like crazy if I hit it with my 800 lumen edc pocket light for a few seconds, lol!

895F3244-14DC-4D15-967A-3637B1E5E424.jpeg

E2EBB2F0-A62C-49B6-94EC-A7FEFEACC312.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Birdog19 said:

I'll be curious to see how you like the combo of a red dot sight and the orange dot on your XS front post.  The first time I shot an orange clay launched off a steel popper I was distracted for a nanosecond between the red dot and orange clay.  There were 3 such targets back-to-back during a local 3-Gun and I missed all 3 clays.  I found it distracting in the fast target acq. required for finding the clay and nailing it.  Needless to say, I as pretty disappointed in myself!!  I can't believe I just admitted that to the group -- It must be Sunday and I just went to confessional!

Agree with SD.  I have installed and experimented with several different sight combinations on my gen 1 Glock 17.  I had XS for a while and liked them fine enough, but eventually found them to be too fat as SD stated.  Same with Speed Sights.  eventually ended up with Dawson Precision using a black rear square notch and a red fiber optic post.  The notch and post are paired to give me enough vision on both sides of the post for target alignment given older eyes and reading glasses condition.


That is something that concerns me is to have to much going on in my sight picture.  I’m kinda new to the red dot game, I just bought a MRO for my Ruger PCC... but I don’t have that much trigger time behind it yet.

 

I just didn’t want to get confused with the two different dots.  But if I am comfortable with the way it shoots with the XS front sight I could just zero the dot in with the orange dot and be good to go I presume, right?  Totally noob question I know, but I’m still learning, so don’t beat ma up too bad, (><)!

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Correct on the intent that you’re supposed to cover your target with the tritium dot. You might have enough adjustment in the rear sight to lower the rear sight enough to sight it in to use the top edge of the front sight. 
 

Looking at your photo, that thing is huge. The width alone takes up a good amount of the front sight hood. 
 

This paired with an optic is too busy for me personally. I figure even if my optic broke or was obstructed with blood or dirt, I could still put rounds on target a 12 gauge distances. 
 

This is also why I advocate the 1moa dot size. Smaller the dot, smaller the target obstruction. On a rifle or shotgun with a good cheek weld, I have never hunted for the dot in the optic like can happen on a handgun platform. So I see zero advantage for the larger dots.

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14 minutes ago, bigoo7e said:

I just didn’t want to get confused with the two different dots.  But if I am comfortable with the way it shoots with the XS front sight I could just zero the dot in with the orange dot and be good to go I presume, right?  Totally noob question I know, but I’m still learning, so don’t beat ma up too bad, (><)!

Well, after giving this a little thought, I think you should slow down and shoot both your Ruger PCC and M4 with the Big Dot and see what you like about both before investing. 

RMR on a Scalarworks mount puts the RMR red dot right on top of the OEM front sight post for a great back-up.  With my weapon light mounted on the right side of my M4, I get just enough light on the front post for sufficient illumination.  Of course I still have to work the ghost ring using my illuminated target to back light the ghost ring.

With a properly sighted red dot, all that sight alignment stuff is reduced to:  "Put the thing on the thing and pull the thing!"  Having said that, it sounds like your Big Dot post is higher than the OEM, just maybe a properly sighted RMR dot would super-impose over the front sight, but you will just have a bright dot on a large front sight.  If they don't co-align, and you crank on the elevation of your RMR to get them co-aligned, your RMR will not necessarily be properly sighted in for POA and POI.  You will still need to align your Big Dot and red dot combo with the ghost ring sights to get a good hit which kind'a negates the reason for a red dot.  I think I'm right about this, I haven't had any smart juice yet (rum) as it's still a tad early on the wrong coast! 

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7 minutes ago, Birdog19 said:

Well, after giving this a little thought, I think you should slow down and shoot both your Ruger PCC and M4 with the Big Dot and see what you like about both before investing. 

RMR on a Scalarworks mount puts the RMR red dot right on top of the OEM front sight post for a great back-up.  With my weapon light mounted on the right side of my M4, I get just enough light on the front post for sufficient illumination.  Of course I still have to work the ghost ring using my illuminated target to back light the ghost ring.

With a properly sighted red dot, all that sight alignment stuff is reduced to:  "Put the thing on the thing and pull the thing!"  Having said that, it sounds like your Big Dot post is higher than the OEM, just maybe a properly sighted RMR dot would super-impose over the front sight, but you will just have a bright dot on a large front sight.  If they don't co-align, and you crank on the elevation of your RMR to get them co-aligned, your RMR will not necessarily be properly sighted in for POA and POI.  You will still need to align your Big Dot and red dot combo with the ghost ring sights to get a good hit which kind'a negates the reason for a red dot.  I think I'm right about this, I haven't had any smart juice yet (rum) as it's still a tad early on the wrong coast! 

Yeah, that’s what I had planned on doing on my M4 before I dropped any more monies, at least on a optic and/or mount.  Go shoot the thing and adjust the rear sight if need be.  I don’t mind running irons on my M4, just weighing my options at the moment and I figured I would try to get some feedback before I start setting back monies to proceed.

 

Even though it may look like it, this is XS’s standard size dot and not their big dot.

 

If the XS doesn’t work out for me... I’ll just toss the stock sight back on and regroup. 😏

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