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Sync mount installation feedback


Milspec

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I really like the Scalarworks product line in general.  Though when I installed my last Sync mount it didn't seem to slide on as tight as the previous one I did.

There are two screws that you install first which are essentially mounting posts for the key slots.  They only go in so far because the threading ends and the screws bottoms out into the top of the receiver.  I screwed them all the way down and the Sync still had a little more play in it than I would have liked to seen.  Another half turn or so and it probably would have been right where I wanted it.  I'm sure it will be fine.  After I installed the two external mounting screws everything seemed tight.  I was just curious if anyone else has experienced this.

I don't know if it's because this time the Sync mount I used was for the Aimpoint Micro, where as last time I installed the Sync for the RMR??  When I did the RMR one I had the screw height adjusted to where I could just barely slide the Sync on.

The designs are slightly different but I don't think it should have made much of a difference.

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2 minutes ago, Anon4755 said:

What other solutions do you like?

I moved to the FFT rail + ADM Ti mount and whatever optic is your flavor. For me, that's T-series micros.

 

Why?

 

I want the ability to use irons if my optic fails...that is a huge reason for "can I see irons through the optic?"

 

However, optics do not often just take a dump where the lights go out. We have evolved to the point that optics are honestly pretty darn reliable in and of themselves. Even on a gauge. 

 

So what causes optics to fail? In my case, it has been rain. You get rain on lenses, it can freeze (I hunt in the midwest, and sometimes it rains, drizzles, then freezes as the day goes on, etc.) or you get intractable fogging no matter what you treated it with. This causes it to be a royal pain or even impossible to use the RDS. I use closed emitter types, but even worse with open emitters like RMR. This makes "seeing my irons through the window" an equally trash idea to implement. If the dot is messed up due to optical distortion, the FSP will likely not be super awesome to visualize, either. Maybe for you this is mud, snow, took a sim round to the window, whatever. But for me, it's humidity/rain and cold related.

 

With a SYNC, you are then stuck. You will not be easily aiming that weapon. You have lost both primary and backup sighting methods because something got rained on and temps dropped, or mud, or whatever.

 

With a QD system like the ADM Ti mount, I can pop the optic off, stow it in my pocket, and finish the hunt/training course/whatever.

 

Further, the ADM Ti on a 1913 rail places the optic a hair higher than the SYNC, which is PERFECT for the mid setting of the C-Stock without NODS. With NODS, it places the optic higher for better use with NODS with the stock fully extended. It really is the "sweet spot", while the SYNC is more tuned toward being a good cheek weld without NODS, with the stock fully out. I prefer to run the stock on the mid (12.25" LOP) setting when I'm not running NODS.

 

Further still is attachment method. I prefer 5 screws to 2, with 2 locators.

 

So far, the ADM Ti mount has held up EXCELLENT and I have had no issues of any kind with it regarding zero shift or any other malady. The new Ti levers/bolts are physically much stronger than the previous iterations.

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3 minutes ago, Unobtanium said:

I moved to the FFT rail + ADM Ti mount and whatever optic is your flavor. For me, that's T-series micros.

 

Why?

 

I want the ability to use irons if my optic fails...that is a huge reason for "can I see irons through the optic?"

 

However, optics do not often just take a dump where the lights go out. We have evolved to the point that optics are honestly pretty darn reliable in and of themselves. Even on a gauge. 

 

So what causes optics to fail? In my case, it has been rain. You get rain on lenses, it can freeze (I hunt in the midwest, and sometimes it rains, drizzles, then freezes as the day goes on, etc.) or you get intractable fogging no matter what you treated it with. This causes it to be a royal pain or even impossible to use the RDS. I use closed emitter types, but even worse with open emitters like RMR. This makes "seeing my irons through the window" an equally trash idea to implement. If the dot is messed up due to optical distortion, the FSP will likely not be super awesome to visualize, either. Maybe for you this is mud, snow, took a sim round to the window, whatever. But for me, it's humidity/rain and cold related.

 

With a SYNC, you are then stuck. You will not be easily aiming that weapon. You have lost both primary and backup sighting methods because something got rained on and temps dropped, or mud, or whatever.

 

With a QD system like the ADM Ti mount, I can pop the optic off, stow it in my pocket, and finish the hunt/training course/whatever.

 

Further, the ADM Ti on a 1913 rail places the optic a hair higher than the SYNC, which is PERFECT for the mid setting of the C-Stock without NODS. With NODS, it places the optic higher for better use with NODS with the stock fully extended. It really is the "sweet spot", while the SYNC is more tuned toward being a good cheek weld without NODS, with the stock fully out. I prefer to run the stock on the mid (12.25" LOP) setting when I'm not running NODS.

 

Further still is attachment method. I prefer 5 screws to 2, with 2 locators.

 

So far, the ADM Ti mount has held up EXCELLENT and I have had no issues of any kind with it regarding zero shift or any other malady. The new Ti levers/bolts are physically much stronger than the previous iterations.

Wow.  Thank you for this.   I did not think of it that way.  I am going to look up the mounts you noted here.  Quick question while on the topic of optics.  Are night sights for the benelli m4 worth it? Maybe just a tritium front sight and keep the rear non night signt?

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1 minute ago, Anon4755 said:

Wow.  Thank you for this.   I did not think of it that way.  I am going to look up the mounts you noted here.  Quick question while on the topic of optics.  Are night sights for the benelli m4 worth it? Maybe just a tritium front sight and keep the rear non night signt?

No. I have never found this to be the case, and even on my pistols I have sometimes run "blackout" sights like the ones Kyle Defoor branded. Why? I am using a light. It is bright AF. My sights, even if they are neon green 532nm retina searing acid jello color, are going to be "black" when viewed in relief behind my WML.

The other aspect is night sights that you brought up, not just bright colored sights. There is some utility to them in very low light if you are not using a WML, but this is going to probably fall under irresponsible use, as you are not likely to PID your target unless the target area is well lit...and then we again have the sights black in stark relief. Next is the ghost ring tritium close to your eye. This is terrible. It will mess with your natural night vision and cause pupillary constriction and it just sucks. The only people I know who DO run night sights on long guns forego the rears.

Night sights under NODS are a detriment for obvious reasons.

In short, I replace my rear ghost ring with a plain black one from LPA that does not have the dots/ "wings", and I remove the FSP, clean out the reactive paint, replace it with white automotive touch-up paint, clear-coat over it with automotive touch-up clear coat, and re-install it. It looks factory and gets rid of the stupid glowing FSP.

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3 minutes ago, Unobtanium said:

No. I have never found this to be the case, and even on my pistols I have sometimes run "blackout" sights like the ones Kyle Defoor branded. Why? I am using a light. It is bright AF. My sights, even if they are neon green 532nm retina searing acid jello color, are going to be "black" when viewed in relief behind my WML.

The other aspect is night sights that you brought up, not just bright colored sights. There is some utility to them in very low light if you are not using a WML, but this is going to probably fall under irresponsible use, as you are not likely to PID your target unless the target area is well lit...and then we again have the sights black in stark relief. Next is the ghost ring tritium close to your eye. This is terrible. It will mess with your natural night vision and cause pupillary constriction and it just sucks. The only people I know who DO run night sights on long guns forego the rears.

Night sights under NODS are a detriment for obvious reasons.

In short, I replace my rear ghost ring with a plain black one from LPA that does not have the dots/ "wings", and I remove the FSP, clean out the reactive paint, replace it with white automotive touch-up paint, clear-coat over it with automotive touch-up clear coat, and re-install it. It looks factory and gets rid of the stupid glowing FSP.

I like the idea of a blacked out rear ghost ring a lot. I also run blacked out sights on my handguns.  Do you have a link where i can obtain a blacked out ghost ring?

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25 minutes ago, Anon4755 said:

Wow.  Thank you for this.   I did not think of it that way.  I am going to look up the mounts you noted here.  Quick question while on the topic of optics.  Are night sights for the benelli m4 worth it? Maybe just a tritium front sight and keep the rear non night signt?

If you go with the ADM mount you'll be fine with the factory Benelli rail since the ADM has a full cross bar lug.

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35 minutes ago, Unobtanium said:

I moved to the FFT rail + ADM Ti mount and whatever optic is your flavor. For me, that's T-series micros.

 

Why?

 

I want the ability to use irons if my optic fails...that is a huge reason for "can I see irons through the optic?"

 

However, optics do not often just take a dump where the lights go out. We have evolved to the point that optics are honestly pretty darn reliable in and of themselves. Even on a gauge. 

 

So what causes optics to fail? In my case, it has been rain. You get rain on lenses, it can freeze (I hunt in the midwest, and sometimes it rains, drizzles, then freezes as the day goes on, etc.) or you get intractable fogging no matter what you treated it with. This causes it to be a royal pain or even impossible to use the RDS. I use closed emitter types, but even worse with open emitters like RMR. This makes "seeing my irons through the window" an equally trash idea to implement. If the dot is messed up due to optical distortion, the FSP will likely not be super awesome to visualize, either. Maybe for you this is mud, snow, took a sim round to the window, whatever. But for me, it's humidity/rain and cold related.

 

With a SYNC, you are then stuck. You will not be easily aiming that weapon. You have lost both primary and backup sighting methods because something got rained on and temps dropped, or mud, or whatever.

 

With a QD system like the ADM Ti mount, I can pop the optic off, stow it in my pocket, and finish the hunt/training course/whatever.

 

Further, the ADM Ti on a 1913 rail places the optic a hair higher than the SYNC, which is PERFECT for the mid setting of the C-Stock without NODS. With NODS, it places the optic higher for better use with NODS with the stock fully extended. It really is the "sweet spot", while the SYNC is more tuned toward being a good cheek weld without NODS, with the stock fully out. I prefer to run the stock on the mid (12.25" LOP) setting when I'm not running NODS.

 

Further still is attachment method. I prefer 5 screws to 2, with 2 locators.

 

So far, the ADM Ti mount has held up EXCELLENT and I have had no issues of any kind with it regarding zero shift or any other malady. The new Ti levers/bolts are physically much stronger than the previous iterations.

 

I subscribe to the same theory and run my M4's the same way except I use the factory rail.

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1 minute ago, Nocturnalnature said:

 

I subscribe to the same theory and run my M4's the same way except I use the factory rail.

I went with the FFT rail to provide more surface area for the crossbar of the mount. All mounts will shift/slide during recoil and bolt return, even on 5.56 guns. On a 12 gauge, this is absolutely brutal, so I want to provide the most surface area possible for the recoil lug/cross-bar to interface with.

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5 hours ago, Unobtanium said:

I went with the FFT rail to provide more surface area for the crossbar of the mount. All mounts will shift/slide during recoil and bolt return, even on 5.56 guns. On a 12 gauge, this is absolutely brutal, so I want to provide the most surface area possible for the recoil lug/cross-bar to interface with.

 

I guess it doesn't hurt, but I've ran the Benelli rail/ADM combo through thousands of rounds with no shift whatsoever.

I can certainly understand if using a Larue or other type mount that simply uses a  partial lug, but with the ADM crossbar switching rails is overkill in my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Nocturnalnature said:

 

I guess it doesn't hurt, but I've ran the Benelli rail/ADM combo through thousands of rounds with no shift whatsoever.

I can certainly understand if using a Larue or other type mount that simply uses a  partial lug, but with the ADM crossbar switching rails is overkill in my opinion.

I file it under "more is better and why not?" A 100% increase in surface area isn't a bad thing in this case, IMO

Edited by Unobtanium
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You can adjust the tension of the Scalarworks top rail by how tight you install the two locating screws. What I usually do is I install one screw, then fit the rail to feel for tightness. I keep tightening that screw until I cannot slide the rail into place. Then I'll back it off a little at a time until I can get it to slide into place. I then repeat the process for the second screw. I usually then rub a thin coat of blue Loctite on the base of the rail so that it glues itself to the receiver in time. Then install the two screws that hold the rail in place. I find the torque range  of 12-14 inch pounds to be a bit light and may cause your screws to back out on you during recoil. These days I tighten them by feel. Once the screw meets resistance, I turn it about a quarter turn more.

In yesterday's FFT youtube video, Todd was going on about having to check these top rail screws constantly. You don't want to have to deal with that. I've never had a screw back out and I've never stripped a screw there. Blue 243 Loctite is your friend on the top rail screws. He reported having to check the screws with a driver constantly. To avoid this problem, just mark your screws with a silver Sharpie or whatever color works for you. You put a thin line across the head of the screw and onto the rail. This will act as a clock or timing line. If the screw moves at all, this line will then be out of alignment.

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That's what threw me off about this install.  I couldn't get the screws low enough to where the the Sync wouldn't slide on.  I was able to do this with the RMR Sync on a different M4.  As you said, then back them off just enough to be able to get it on.  Even with the screws bottomed out it still slide on without a lot of resistance.  I kept thinking this shouldn't be able to slide on like this.

I used 243 on all 4 screws even though they have Nyloc on them.  I've been thinking about torque striping them with my silver sharpie.  I've done that on other mounts/platforms.  I think I'll do that here as well.  Scarlarworks shows 7 inlbs on the outside screws.  I always thought that was a bit light.

Edited by Milspec
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I just sent them a note.  I didn't reach out before because I thought I was being too critical.  I do agree and based on my experience installing the RMR version it doesn't seem right.

It's almost like the machining on the key slot is off or the flange/stop on these screws are out of spec.  They bottom out all the way to the un-threaded portion under the head.  Like you've mentioned I should have had to back them out from there just to get it to slide on.

 

scalarworks-sync-b-screws.thumb.jpg.bfe0e73298b068b0219030c35773407f.jpg

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On 2/2/2022 at 7:43 PM, Milspec said:

I really like the Scalarworks product line in general.  Though when I installed my last Sync mount it didn't seem to slide on as tight as the previous one I did.

There are two screws that you install first which are essentially mounting posts for the key slots.  They only go in so far because the threading ends and the screws bottoms out into the top of the receiver.  I screwed them all the way down and the Sync still had a little more play in it than I would have liked to seen.  Another half turn or so and it probably would have been right where I wanted it.  I'm sure it will be fine.  After I installed the two external mounting screws everything seemed tight.  I was just curious if anyone else has experienced this.

I don't know if it's because this time the Sync mount I used was for the Aimpoint Micro, where as last time I installed the Sync for the RMR??  When I did the RMR one I had the screw height adjusted to where I could just barely slide the Sync on.

The designs are slightly different but I don't think it should have made much of a difference.

I had experienced the same thing with the SYNC 02 I used to own. Wasn't too concerned with it. I have since gone back to using the OEM rail with an ADM low mount.

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