RxArms Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 3 hours ago, Unobtanium said: Technically can't you just price shipping and handling separately for each item, regardless? Say, you could sell me a widget that cost you $399 to make for $99 + $399 S&H and "inventory management logistics"? Yes it had crossed my mind, but I’d like to keep things as realistic as I can. But ya it has crossed my mind to use shipping/handling/processing as a means to increase the price. With all this said, for this batch, I’m happy with the price I’m able to offer it at. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RxArms Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) I tracked down a PVD (physical vapour deposition) coating service in Canada. However, the catch is there is no interior coating can be applied due to the technology (it will adhere only to the exterior). this type of tech is used on industrial tool punches and machining cutters, so a very hard, lubricated, thin and corrosion resistant coating. im willing to go down this path, but the inside will not be able to get any coating. They estimate 1.5” or so on each end ID of the tube will receive the coating. The rest will be raw steel. my thoughts on it, even if I went black oxide, the finish on the ID would most certainly be removed in short order due to the spring and plunger rubbing against the inside diameter. I would imagine it would only take 50-100 rounds to completely rub off any black oxide coating leaving bare steel exposed. so I am considering the premium PVD coating which is very low in thickness (about 3-5 micron) and can provide probably a lifetime of corrosion and wear resistance on the exterior. It is a dark grey/black colour they refer to as Anthracite. Would like input, if any, from you all on your preference. (Black oxide OD and ID vs PVD exterior raw interior). Edited June 14, 2022 by RxArms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 It sounds like raw material is a huge key player, here. Corrosion resistance and so forth of the material, that sort of thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RxArms Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) Speaking of Benelli QC, down at the machine shop finalizing details on this 6 position tube, and we have 2 collapsible buttstock a here. 2020 is left, 2021 is right. There is an obvious difference with QC on these, 2020 production tube opening has a chamfer, 2021 doesn’t. 2020 fits and locks better on the OEM tube and the 6 position, 2021 doesn’t lock in as good with OEM and with mine. 2021 is also WAY tighter on the tube (for both) Benelli seems to have switched manufacturers in 2021. And it isn’t better.. Edited June 17, 2022 by RxArms 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doge Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 On 6/14/2022 at 10:01 AM, RxArms said: Would like input, if any, from you all on your preference. (Black oxide OD and ID vs PVD exterior raw interior). You don't necessarily need a coating on the inside since after high round count use the plunger would wear most of the inside. It should be lubricated no matter, even if you have nickel boron, NP3 or whatever coating. Nice to have it coated, but no impact to function. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RxArms Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) On 6/18/2022 at 10:42 AM, Doge said: You don't necessarily need a coating on the inside since after high round count use the plunger would wear most of the inside. It should be lubricated no matter, even if you have nickel boron, NP3 or whatever coating. Nice to have it coated, but no impact to function. I've sent off a sample for PVD using a Titanium Aluminum Nitride (TiAlN) coating. Looks like a really nice tech to me, costs a bit more per piece, but I believe M4 owners would appreciate the premium finish it provides. It will be the same colour as this example here. TiAlN is a coating used on cutting inserts, end mills, and drill bits, intended to resist high heat (not applicable here), give extreme hardness, provide lubricity and corrosion protection. Should pretty much last a lifetime... Edited June 21, 2022 by RxArms 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraBG Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 I've never heard of that. It looks like a nice finish and if it's used for tooling it should hold up well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 On 6/17/2022 at 4:23 PM, RxArms said: Speaking of Benelli QC, down at the machine shop finalizing details on this 6 position tube, and we have 2 collapsible buttstock a here. 2020 is left, 2021 is right. There is an obvious difference with QC on these, 2020 production tube opening has a chamfer, 2021 doesn’t. 2020 fits and locks better on the OEM tube and the 6 position, 2021 doesn’t lock in as good with OEM and with mine. 2021 is also WAY tighter on the tube (for both) Benelli seems to have switched manufacturers in 2021. And it isn’t better.. Mine is in between the two. It is a 2017-2018 Entry model. It is not bevelled inside like the one on the left, not is it "crisp". The inside looks like the outside, one the one on the left, nearest the camera. Gentle roll-over. I think there is some variability for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unobtanium Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 15 hours ago, RxArms said: I've sent off a sample for PVD using a Titanium Aluminum Nitride (TiAlN) coating. Looks like a really nice tech to me, costs a bit more per piece, but I believe M4 owners would appreciate the premium finish it provides. It will be the same colour as this example here. TiAlN is a coating used on cutting inserts, end mills, and drill bits, intended to resist high heat (not applicable here), give extreme hardness, provide lubricity and corrosion protection. Should pretty much last a lifetime... As much of a PITA as changing that tube is, you make it without cost in mind, imo! 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClackClackBAM Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 I'm looking forward to an update on this! Definitely interested in buying one! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RxArms Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, ClackClackBAM said: I'm looking forward to an update on this! Definitely interested in buying one! They are being produced this week at the shop, the machine shop is busy so it took awhile. Need to laser engrave the stock positions still, heat treat, then send off for PVD which I’m fairly certain I’ll be going with at this time. Looks like maybe end of July is still an accurate timeframe. I’ve done a few tweaks after lots of R&D: -Added a very very minor taper to the end of the notch that holds the retractable pin, this helps to stop the buttstock from rotating out. This mod took the longest to sort out…. -I added a notch to be able to remove the spring if ever needed, the notch also doubles as a visual placement aid, to know where the top position of the tube is in the reciever, final adjustment should be done with buttstock. -added a chamfer to the recoil pin notches. This was a late change I made recently, after extreme abuse testing quite a few prototypes, i noticed the metal was susceptible to deformation and expanding higher (I was literally banging buttstock on the gun against cement floor). Further investigating led me to looking at OEM example again and also extremely abused the OEM (which also deformed), this is when I noticed a chamfer, which has an important end use. If the metal deforms even the slightest, the chamfer stops the deformation from rolling up and changing the outside dimensions of the tube. It also increases strength of that particular spot, an angled contact point is always stronger. it’s the little things I like to make sure are not overlooked! Edited June 29, 2022 by RxArms 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClackClackBAM Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Awesome, that works for me! Just DM me when they're ready so we can arrange payment. Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Nice work and functional improvements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnalnature Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 So these won't count towards 922R since they aren't made in the USA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RxArms Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 24 minutes ago, Nocturnalnature said: So these won't count towards 922R since they aren't made in the USA? There are only certain items that count towards 922r, the recoil tube is not one of them. Even if it was made in USA it wouldn’t make a difference. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnalnature Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 16 minutes ago, RxArms said: There are only certain items that count towards 922r, the recoil tube is not one of them. Even if it was made in USA it wouldn’t make a difference. That's a bummer! I swear, there is no rhyme or reason for the hoops that the ATF makes people jump through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDude Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 That looks awesome RX, waiting for your email so I can grab one of these . . . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilyung Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Can’t wait to try one! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RxArms Posted July 14, 2022 Author Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) PVD aluminum titanium nitride came back, looks pretty killer… It is the only finish that exists out there that checks off all my high quality control boxes; primarily retaining the heat treat on the notches, extremely high corrosion protection, no tolerance interference, high wear resistance. Shout-out to the guy that put me on this path further back in the thread here. I have been told by the finisher that salt corrosion is essentially non existent with this finish… but no formal military testing has been done since it is used primarily for hard use tooling. experienced some minor delays at the machine shop, but this week is full production. Coming soon… (sample pic below that I abused a bit to test the finish… and my canine Apollo) Edited July 14, 2022 by RxArms 3 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerDanger Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Looks great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben elLes Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Very nice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1280 Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I can't wait to snag one of these tubes. I find for me with the stock fully extended, it's just a bit too long of a lop. It's definitely doable but I much prefer the middle position when shooting. So, because of that I had to buy the 10mm riser from Reptilia and that has helped tremendously when firing on the middle position but the sweet spot for me would be a notch on the tube that is in between the middle and fully extended positions on the oem tube. Looking forward to this... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 On 7/14/2022 at 10:14 AM, RxArms said: PVD aluminum titanium nitride came back, looks pretty killer… It is the only finish that exists out there that checks off all my high quality control boxes; primarily retaining the heat treat on the notches, extremely high corrosion protection, no tolerance interference, high wear resistance. Shout-out to the guy that put me on this path further back in the thread here. I have been told by the finisher that salt corrosion is essentially non existent with this finish… but no formal military testing has been done since it is used primarily for hard use tooling. experienced some minor delays at the machine shop, but this week is full production. Coming soon… (sample pic below that I abused a bit to test the finish… and my canine Apollo) Your dog is pretty cute too!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaPug Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) How does it compare to the tube Briley just released? Have you (or anybody else in here) had a look at it? Looks like they are using a different finish on theirs, but there might be some other minor differences too? Would be nice to see a comparison of the two. Edited July 19, 2022 by AlphaPug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RxArms Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, AlphaPug said: How does it compare to the tube Briley just released? Have you (or anybody else in here) had a look at it? Looks like they are using a different finish on theirs, but there might be some other minor differences too? Would be nice to see a comparison of the two. I don’t know too much about Their finish, but in my personal opinion, PVD is superior. as for the other aspects of it, not sure. All I know is that I have put extreme attention to detail in mine.. can’t speak for the others. They can’t touch my price point either, $138 USD. Got back from the machine shop today, finalizing the engraved stock positions.. Edited July 20, 2022 by RxArms 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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