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300WSM Ammo/loads


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Well, I was just out shooting my R1 300WSM. I was a little diappointed to say the least. It would shoot two shots pretty consistent and then throw the third shot high (4-6"). Any ideas on what might cause this? I was shooting 150grain winchester supreme ammo. I do reload but was able to pick up 8 boxes of factory ammo cheap and hoped I might get this thing shootin decent enough to hunt with. That may not be the case. Any recommendation on some bullets and powders others have had some luck with? Are the 15o's too lite?

 

Also, is there anything I can do to lighten the trigger or is this best left to a gunsmith?

 

My benelli shotguns are the cats ***! I hope this R1 can shoot better than what it is now.

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I have a 300 WSM Comfortech. Mine was doing the same thing. I would once and while get a 1.5" group, but generally they were 4-6". Here and there I would get 2 shots that literally touched each other, and have the same 3-4" 3rd shot. I tended to chalk off the two really tight shots as luck. I went through the break in process with the barrel, and tried 5-6 types of ammunition. 150s, 165 and 180s. Federal and Winchester.

 

I eventually called Benelli, and my gun was shipped in for them to look at it about 14 days ago. In fact I plan to call tomorrow for an update. They were very good about it on the phone, we'll see how the actual repair works. By the way, one person told me he thought it was the gun, another told me he thought it was me. While I would find it easier if it were the gun, it doesn't matter much to me. I just need to know if it is me or the gun.

 

I had a gun smith work on my trigger. He got it down to 3.25-3.5 pounds. Cost me $50. Someone else indicated they got their trigger down to about the same on their own by adjusting springs. I would rather pay the $50 and have it done.

 

Good luck. If you find an answer, please let me know. Benelli has told me it should shoot 1.5" and that they'll make it do that. How, no idea. I have asked to talk to the guy who works on the gun though. Maybe I'll learn a thing or two.

 

P.S. I also had 3 jams....which also suggested to me something is wrong.

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Gentlemen,

I don't know how many ways I can say this before it gets through.

There are several factors built into every R1 which serve to render the gun incapable of producing tight groups.

 

1. The receiver is, by the standards of truly accurate rifles, weak. There's a reason that the most accurate rifles in the world are built on solid bottom, heavy, stiff receivers.

Shooters bed the actions and recoil lugs of their rifles to get sub MOA groups. They don't do it for fun. They do it because it works.

The R1's action is held together by a couple of pins and it slides on rails against springs when fired.

There's no consitency to that. None.

 

2. The bolt is, by the standards of truly accurate rifles, incapable of consitentcy. Master riflesmiths work religiously to time and true every aspect of a bolt in order to deliver shot to shot repeatability.

Close the bolt on an R1, and then tug on the bolt handle. Feel any movement?

Now close the bolt on a well-built bolt action rifle and do the same. You'd think it was weled in place until you rotate to unlock it.

An R1 unlocks when you pull it back.

An accurate action won't pull back until you unlock it.

There's a reason.

 

3. The barrel mount system is in no way desirable to someone who seeks tight groups. As the skinny little barrel heats up, the pressures of the anchoring system bend and torque the barrel in erratic and unpredictable directions.

With each round fired, the harmonics change dramatically.

The barrel nut loosens with each firing, changing the same pressures and fittings that a bedded recoil lug and action eliminate.

A precision rifle will feature a heavy barrel to lessen the harmonic variations, and it will be free-floated from the receiver to remove external pressures that push, pull, bend and twist the barrel unpredictably.

 

4. Yes, the trigger can be worked down to a tolerable pull weight, but the accuracy formula is more than just a light trigger pull.

 

I am amazed that Benelli CS would even consider taking an "innacurate" R1 back in for a checkup.

They have inaccuracy built into them. They can't help themselves.

That coupled with the fact that they're being fired by relatively inexperienced bench shooters, pretty much guarantees abysmal groupings.

 

No, I'm not downing the R1.

It is a finely built, beautifully crafted, well balanced, lightweight, short range repeater.

 

I am downing anyone who buys one with the misguided delusion that the rifle will perform on a par with finely built and tuned bolt guns and well-built target semis.

 

Like any rifle, it will shoot certain loads better that others, and there is room for improvement, should someone care to invest the time and effort.

But please don't ask more of this rifle than it was built to deliver.

 

[ 10-31-2006, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: tucker301 ]

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Well said, Tucker. That would be grate if we could sticky this post on top, so that every new comer doesn’t have the same questions and complains. Guys, no offence, but I’m seeing the same complains over and over again for last two years. I really do not understand why, if you are really like R1 and invested money into it, didn’t check early posts? There is a search option on the forum. Firs of all that will give you the picture and time for thought, and save you from frustration, not to mention money. Autoloaders are designed for fast shooting where 2” ~ 4” off the center at 100 yards is can be considered very accurate, of course if your primary target are not squirrels :eek: . I love mine, know what to expect from it and very happy. Wish you the same.

 

target.jpg

 

[ 11-01-2006, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: garren ]

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Sorry if this was taken as badmouthing the R1. This post was not intended to be a downgrading of the R1. So far I've been very pleased with the operational performance of my rifle.

 

My intent is to try find out if anyone has recommendations for loads for the the 300WSM.

 

The trigger issue - can someone explain how to adjust the springs?

 

I'd be more than happy with the groups you have posted.

 

 

Thanks

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Tucker, I know you can do better than that... but, just wait till I get one to myself to compete with you tongue.gif

 

gfyoung3,

Truly, I don’t care if anybody badmouths the R1 or any brand name rifle. Obviously, not everyone can be happy or meet the expected results from a given rifle. You have to take under consideration several factors, such as scope quality, ammo and shooter himself. I’m not going to discuss trigger pull here (it’s not good but I’m used to it). Now, take out one of the factors above and you will have what someone can brand as a bad rifle. I’m lowering the plank and trying to simplify the matter to things that can be fixed. But what you can not change or expect from R1, I think Tucker (patiently, one more time) tried to explain to you.

 

About the loads.

This is from my earlier post; - As I always said – one doesn’t have to rely on somebody’s ammunition choices and results. You need to find the right/preferable ammos for your rifle by yourself. You were impressed with Tucker’s grouping, but he, as I remember, uses Remington ammos and mine, on the contrary, doesn’t like Rem. ammunition at all. So, I don’t think that anybody, even Benelli, can recommend the right load for a particular rifle. Again, you have to do some tests for yourself. It’s time-consuming, sometimes disappointing, but finally your efforts will be rewarded.

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Hi All

 

Well I agree with tucker, this is not a target rifle, but a hunting rifle. On the other hand I would like to hit every think I point the gun at, that’s the only reason I would carry it out to the woods, so accuracy is a factor.

 

I got my R1 (300 WSM, not a comfortech ) 2 weeks ago, and I put 100 rounds true it, I have only shot the same ammo until now, Winchester Power Point 180 grain (X300WSM)

After the first 60 shots I found my shooting was more consistent, if this was the barrel that needed to get “Broke in” or me getting use to the rifle, I will never know, but I am happy with what I see on the target.

 

I tried to shot the rifle, as I would out in the field, long brakes, short brakes, 4 shot very fast, 3 very slow, at one time my barrel was so hot, my sight true the scope was blurry.

 

I shot most of my shots leaning against a pole or laying down, as I would hunting in the field, I find these results more accurate and something I can use when I get into the hunting fields.

It doesn’t help me shooting perfect groups from a bench rest, if I cannot reproduce these shots in the fields, where it counts.

 

The only changes I made to my R1, was adjusting both steps in the trigger, and adding a larger recoil pad.

 

I will be hunting Deer with it next weekend, looking forward to the first field test, then it’s only up to me to point the rifle in the right direction.

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Thanks - I guess. I understand that every rifle is different. Some like brand x ammo- some don't. All I was looking for here was:

 

My rifle likes brand y - 1xx grain bullet with xxx powder.

 

OR

 

My rifle doesn't like brand y - 1xx grain bullet with xxx powder.

 

 

I was looking for a starting point. It seems no one has or wants to give that info. This was not intended to be a discussion on the accuracy of the rifles/ bolt vs. auto./ hunting vs. bench/ factors in accuracy/etc

 

Lord knows there are enough post about these issues.

 

I'd appreciate any info anyone has about loads they have used and the results. If not thanks anyway.

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You’re asking for help, but you’re not listening.

Well, mine likes very much Hornady custom ammo (150gr – 165gr), Winchester ammo and some Federals. Don’t like Remington ammo at all, but I believe, yours might like it very much. Please, don’t blame me, if it turns out I have been wrong.

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Hi All

 

Well gfyoung3, I will not get into the 3 questions, 1 answer confusion, but here is the little experience I have made so far whit the ammo.

 

I have a R1 300 WSM as well, I have only been shooting 180 grain ammo, Winchester Power Point and XP3.

 

I am happy with both, I shot the XP3 on a windy day with very good results, maybe the 180 grain will work for You as well.

 

As a final comment, I don’t have a god, with all the religion and superstition there is in sending a bullet out true a steel pipe, by igniting gun powder, I don’t need one.

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It is clear to me that some of you guys know guns far better than I. I also appreciate your wealth of knowledge, despite how it is sometimes conveyed. That said, I disagree with much of what has been written regarding what a gun buyer should know, or for that matter, what the R1 should do.

 

Here were my perspectives going into buying an R1:

 

1) My 25-year-old Remington auto loader will shoot 1.5" groups. I certainly believed that if my old Remington could shoot 1.5", a $1,000 brand new R1 would be capable of the same.

 

2) My brother's Browning BAR 300 WSM shoots 1" groups. Yes, an autoloader.

 

3) Technological advances have taken place in nearly every product one can imagine. CAD has improved electronics, CAD has overhauled the auto industry and virtually everything else man made. Products are designed and built to tighter tolerances, and given the right mfg, built to higher standards of quality. If I told you that a chip containing 1 million pivetting mirrors would provide some of the best TV you'll see, in a 90 pound box, I doubt that many of you would have believed it 10 years ago. Guess what, it is called DLP and it is the heart of many of the TVs sold today.

 

4) Now imagine a novice hunter, perceiving Benelli to be a well built gun, talking to not one, not two, but many sales reps from many retailers, including Benelli directly, all saying the R1 is capable of shooting 1" or so groups. Not sub 1", but 1-1.5" given the shooters abilities.

 

I don't think it takes a lot for a relative non-expert to then conclude that this gun should shoot.

 

The other issue is the notion that only a person that goes to the bench regularly can shoot tight groups. My goal has never been to shoot sub 1" groups, but I can shoot 1" groups, when the gun itself will shoot them.

 

Benelli is returning my 300 WSM telling me it shoots 1.25". Maybe bolts are inherently a more accurate gun, but when 25 year old Remington autos shoot 1.5" groups, when a BAR shoots 1" groups, when reps from various companies tell you the gun can do what you want it to do, including OEM reps, when technological advances have improved nearly everything man made, it is a reasonable conclusion that just maybe, Benelli made something that would shoot close to that of a bolt.

 

I would never compare my knowledge to that of some of you guys, but a reasonable person could easily conclude that a $1,000 gun should be able to shoot reasonable groups.

 

So when I guy says I am having trouble with my gun, why is he spoken to like his expectations are out of sync with his gun? Go figure. If Benelli doesn't want potential buyers being disappointed, they should tell them to expect 2-3-4" groups. How many guns do you suppose they will sell? When I told them I was getting 4-5" groups, they wanted the gun back in for work. It seems that they must think the gun should be more accurate than what is suggested here.

 

Well, I feel better now....maybe I have made you smile, or think twice.

Jim

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gfyoung3,

Benelli told me they were shooting Winchester Power Points through my gun getting the 1.25" groups. I forget to ask what weight, but they come in 150s and 180s. Ironically, I think that is the cheapest shells Winchester makes.

 

I would add that several people that I spoke with suggest the 150s are light for a 300 WSM, but I am learning that getting good advise is far easier said than done. My brother's BAR likes the Winchester Silver Tips in 150 though.

 

I don't have the gun back yet to report first hand.

 

I hope you get it dialed in for a good deer season. Mine is in about 10 days.

 

Good luck.

Jim

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There are rules in manufacturing accurate rifles. As with any rules, there will always be exceptions, such as the old Remington and the BAR, and now perhaps your R1.

 

Did Benelli do anything to the R1, or did they just load it up and shoot better groups than you?

 

If the latter is true, perhaps the nut behind the trigger wasn't properly adjusted.

 

One consistent theme on this site, with all advice given, has been to try different loads before proclaiming that your $1,100 rifle won't shoot. Some folks take good advice better than others.

 

 

Building in accuracy robbing features lessens the possibility of producing an accurate rifle, but sometimes you just get lucky... sometimes you don't.

 

Remington turns out some accurate bolt guns despite their $18 barrels, but they could give more attention to the barrel and turn out a lot more.

 

http://www.6mmbr.citymaker.com/f/Lilja_BoreScope_VID.wmv

 

[ 11-07-2006, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: tucker301 ]

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Not bad.

 

My logic regarding the loose nut behind the trigger is that if I can shoot 1-1.5" groups with my Remington, my Brother's BAR, and an A-Bolt, I should be able to shoot the R1. That seemed to suggest that the nut was adjusted properly, I hope.

 

We'll know soon enough. My R1 is due to arrive Thursday or Friday. I really hope it was the gun, because correcting anything I might be doing wrong will take more time than I now have.

Jim

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Originally posted by Jim630:

 

My logic regarding the loose nut behind the trigger is that if I can shoot 1-1.5" groups with my Remington, my Brother's BAR, and an A-Bolt, I should be able to shoot the R1.

Not necessarily true.

Perhaps those other guns are capable of shooting 1/4 to 1/2 MOA groups, but that's the best you can wring from them.

Now applying that same theory to the R1 could explain why Benelli's shooters can get 1.25 groups from a rifle from which you could only get 4"-6" groups.

 

I wasn't much good at Algebra (mostly because of Allison, Karen, and Mary Jane), but I'll give it a shot.

 

(rifle) X (Shooter-Jim) = (rifle) X (Shooter-X)²

:D

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