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WTB - M4 collapsible stock


bmmc

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Whats a fair price?

Its the law of supply and demand. I paid $185 from Benelli a year ago when they were plentiful. I wish you good luck in your search. I suspect some will be on ebay soon for around 5 bills. Just like the mag ext's.

I wonder if the ATF somehow gets a slice of the ebay action... Hmmm.

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I've had three and sold them a while back. Didn't pay more than $190. I'd like to buy one for less than $300. Hoping to find someone with a heart, and an extra stock.

Maybe I'm dreaming but I'm not desperate either.

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i doubt you find one that cheap or someone with that much of a heart, but hey, im a pessimist...i do personally know of 3 that sold for over $600 and 4 that sold for $550..its only going to go higher..eventually they prob will cost a grand..that happens, i might take mine off and put my pistol grip back on and make a profit...lol

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Here is the latest from Benelli customer service. The model 70085 expandable stock has been declared illegal by the ATF. ( So Benelli says) They have been ordered to stop all civilian sales. The stock will still be available to Law Enforcement only with a verification letter on department letterhead and will only be direct shipped to the officers department. I know A dealer here in Ft Lauderdale who has one left. Ho won't sell his last one because he won't be able to get anymore and he wants one too. He called his Rep. from Benelli customer service on the speaker phone while I was listening. After 25 minutes of waiting, they finally answered. Benelli is doing it this way from now on because some unscrupulous type purchased about 12-15 of the stocks after he got word of the impending ban and drove the price outta sight. He's gettin over 6 bills for them and the poor person who buys one at that price will probably be ultimately installing them on what will end up being a banned weapon for civilian ownership.

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I can only guess they were referring to a banned weapon if the expandable stock was installed on the weapon. For the record, I personally have not received any notifications from the ATF regarding this stock. I have a C&R license and the ATF usually sends out updates to license holders. All I can tell you is some people are making a lot of money.

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I think you're right on both. I was able to get one shipped to me for $185.00 after providing Benelli with an employment verification letter. It is being direct shipped to me at the department. Benelli is billing the distributor that I went thru, and then I pay him. Kinda like going the long way around the barn if ya ask me.

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call them unscrupulous for makin a large profit but its really supply and demand. If people are willing to purchase them for the set price, then they have to be satisfied within themselves that the price is fair for the product. i know this how?? because i paid well over $400 for a factory tube, thats how. I feel like it was worth it since we can no longer get them and same deal wit the stocks, IF i didnt already have mine on the 11707, id prob pay that too while i could atleast get one. i know people personally that got anywhere from $5-600 for the stocks and sold them quickly at the price. I also spoke with someone whom has about 6-8 factroy tubes that hes holding onto and i cant blame him really, even tho i tried to talk him out of another one. I guess i just have a problem with buying the best shotgun in the world and it be made by the Italians and then i go putting US made parts on it..i just dont get it. If i wanted to put 11,9, 6 or whatever US parts on it, id have purchased another Remington or the like.

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Yeah, I thought about that as well but luckily, I had another avenue to get one. I'm still waiting for those more connected than me to find out just what the **** the real story is with this issue. If the Feds are banning the item people deserve to know. I talked to another dealer today who has connections with Benelli and he said this may all be an interpretation miscommunication between Benelli and ATF. Here's another spin. I have a $200 tax stamp for my Colt 9mm SBR rifle. I was told I can register my M4 as a SBS by paying an additional $5.00. Then I can put whatever suits my fancy on it. You know that some interprising individual is gonna start making American made replacements parts and BINGO, now it is magically gonna comply with the Ban and become a legal weapon. As long as I don't cut anything and I keep the original parts, I could possibly return it to it's original configuration with the blessing of ATF. This is in the event I want to seel it down the line.

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I would be hesitant to pay $200 tax stamp and register anything that hasn't been declared an AOW. What this does is invite the ATF to roll this over to a ATF, due to the fact we have other volenteering to do so.

With all due respect, don't fold under pressure. Hold out make them make the decision.

 

My /02

 

"Freedom First"

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I don't agree with Military Police at all. I can only assume due to his moniker, he was a former miliatry police officer. If that's the case, he should know better than to make a statement like that. It isn't that BATF that's at fault....It's the politicians/lawmakers period. I know many good men and women serving with the BATF right now that put their buckets on the line to uphold the law from those that break it. I worked joint investigative task forces with them, the FBI and Secret Service. I also have a little more insight into the reference he made to the children (Branch Davidian Compound raid). There were a whole lot of those heros that didn't agree with what was goin on, but they sucked it up, followed orders and did their job. Some got killed in the process and some will never be able to forget what the saw and had to do. There is a purpose for the BATF, they do a whole lot more than just keeping you away from a gun you probably shouldn't have anyway.

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LT, i can respsect your opinion b/c your of your position in LE however, i cannot nor will i ever justify the actions of the BATF at Waco regardless of what the lunatic leader had done. Should Mr K have been in jail?? YES, 100%, simply for having sex with underage girls is reason alone to incarcerate him. The other innocent people in the compound did NOT need to die in that raid, which never should've taken place at all.

 

Mr K was in town everyday , everyday and he could've been taken into custody at any of those times (as testified by in front of congress by such leader) but the agent in charge had to has his 15 mins of fame in front of the cameras. I mean after all, how many raids have you been on where you called the media and had them there to videotape it for ya??

 

What really burns my behind is as the building is still burnin and crumbling into ashes why does the ATF feel the need to remove the flags from the flagpole and run there BATFE flag up the pole like some conquering army?? Where they proud that they 'conquered' the mighty Davidians?? Id be ahsamed to be called a BATF agent and yes i also have two friends in the BATF that know i dont agree with what happened there and we are still friends b/c they dont agree either.

 

While i realize not every agent there had a say in what happened, i respect the agents that spoke out and left the agency b/c of what happened. Yes, i was a Military Police Officer and i also have a CJ degree but that fact will never lead me into blind faith in any agency, wrong is wrong and the agents IN CHARGE and Janet Reno should be in jail to this day, including Mr FBI leader that took over from the ATF and did a bang up job! Bottomline is this, You cannot win this debate by justifying the ATF, they admitted violating protacol and you see what happened, and i havent even bgan to scratch the surface of the criminal acts that took place during that seige by govt agents.

 

Im no whacko with an agenda against the govt, i can back up everything ive stated and much more by the records of the hearings in front of congress. Things can be done in a way that minimizes civilian casualties but the ATF and for that matter the FBI at the end had no regard for those still inside and i will never support either in the Waco incident.

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I'll try not to go off on a rant here. Some of your points are well founded and others are just plain without fact. I will try to cut to the chase for you and maybe we can agree to disagree on some of the issues. First, let me qualify my response by telling you that I have an ATF friend and instructor who was on scene during this fiasco, until he was shot 5 times and lay wounded inside the walls of the compound.

 

He was incapacitated as a result of his gunshot wounds and could not crawl to safety. While he lay on the ground, Branch Davidians took turns taking pot shots at his body when they saw movement. He had radio communications and each time they saw him move to talk, they shot. After 3 or 4 shots, the 5th shot finally hit him in the buttocks. He swears that he is alive today because he was sooooo pissed, he was determined to kill ther SOB that shot him.

 

He went on to tell myself and others in the class the filed commanders knew this was going south before the loaded up in the cattle trucks to drive up the lane to the front doors and here's why. A Branch Davidian confidant, who was a US Postal employee, accidentially ran across the troops staging for the approach. He in turn passed the information on to the media who seized the opportunity for news ratings, and jeopardized the entire operation because one of the media was reported to have had ties with a Davidian in the compound, who alerted Koresh. The AFT had a forward observing spotting team in place who actually reported this activity first hand from a very close distance to the front door. Even though the Field Commanders who know knew that Koresh had been alerted to the raid resisted going thru with the approach at this time, the Man in control of this situation who was flying above the compound in a helicopter, gave the order to execute the raid. That is pretty much it in the nutshell. You are right, they had ample opportunity to pick up Koresh in the town. They even detained him one of the days leading up to the raid, but had to let him leave as they did not have the proof of his misdeeds that they needed at that point in the investigation. You are right, not one of those innocent people deserved to die in that raid and mistakes were made on both sides. I can assure you of this, the ATF and FBI leadership responsible for their agents on this cluster will have to live with their decision the rest of their lives, and the bottom line is that Koresh is responsible for their deaths. Unfortunately, the Fed leadership were the dupes who unwittingly facilitated his violence. True, some of their leadership should probably be in jail. I'm not trying to justify the AFT. All I'm saying is that you can't paint the entire agency with such a broad brush. They perform a very important and sometimes dangerous job. There are bumbling incompetent leaders in every agency and branch of the military service. I have no information about the flag issue you mentioned so I can't comment. If your statement is true, it was definitely a mistake. As far as blind faith is concerned, did you ever get an order while you were in the military you didn't agree with ? As long as it's moral and legal, ya do your job to the best of your ability right. Some even do it out of fear of being labeled a coward or a mal-content but ya still go along with your brothers and sisters in arms. I suspect a lot of this was going on in Waco.

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Ya know LT, i was fully expecting a total 100% re-buttal of my comments but since you do indeed acknowledge mistakes were made and some people need/should be held accountable, ive actually gained a bit of respect for your position as well.

We dont need to get into a full tit for tat dispute about the events in Waco b/c there are many many on both sides that were wrong but i will comment on a few of your points, as you did on a few of mine. As for your friend who was wounded at Waco, im sorry that he was shot and im sure he was following orders, however, after he was initally shot, if the Davidians had wanted to kill him, they could've done so instead of initiating a cease fire to allow the ATF to collect their dead and wounded. Its rarely publicized that an ATF sniper shot an UNARMED young man on top of the water tower next to the compound from a helicopter as the shooting raged below. His body layed in the sun up there for days.

 

Perhaps it was wrong of me to show my disgust with the ATF by labeling every agent as worthless, when in fact, my anger really is aimed towards those directly involved in the decision making. As for those decisions from higher ups and following orders. A soldier or a federal agent is not required to follow orders that are illegal or unlawful and alot the actions at Waco in the opening days were just that, perhaps thats why so many of them are havin a hard time living with what they had to do or with what they had seen.

 

As for the camera crew, i also know an agent who was on scene and involved in the initial raid ( ill give you his name in private to verify and you can check with your friend) and he insists that the media was contacted by the 2nd in command on that day, and that the D's were tipped off when the news team got lost and stopped a mailman to ask for diretions to the compound and thats when the D's were tipped off. I do beleive its a FACT that it has been testified under oath as to occurring that way.

 

I do not have the time or space to point out every lil wrong on either side but i will say that i do think the D's started the fire, however, the ATF/FBI were aware that the gas that was pumped into the compound is BANNED by the Geneva Convetion against being used in enclosed structures and when heated, it forms into cynanide, which is actually what killed many before the fire.

As for the flag, there is numerous videos clearly showing this action occurring, the ATF was actually chastised for it in congressional hearings, but to me it was a VICTORY sign in the face of all the dead innocents and i resent it as do many others. The actions at Waco clearly lead to the death of many more innocents at the hands of Tim McVeigh in OKC.

 

Ill reiterate that i do understand most lower level agenst on that day were'nt aware of what a hornets nest they were going into and were powerless to stop it even if they did know. It was wrong of me to group them all together b/c they were given the orders and i know once the shooting started it was a fight for survival and to save their buddies on either side of them. i just feel like Reno and several others should have been called to answer by serving jail time instead of being PROMOTED, demoted etc. I think we agree on more than we might realize, we just have different agendas that we focus on, so i can agree to disagree on several issues and do so in a friendly manner..thanks

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Excellent post. I can see that you have knowledge of some of the issues that I didn't delve into because I did not want to make this a tit for tat, or a rambling diatribe. I was only trying to illuminate the terrain in which we were traveling.....and always in a friendly manner.

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