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Since my original thread got deleted and this one likely will too.


Duggan

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Yeah, if it hits you, it'll bounce around and mess you up good, any bullet is going to do that. Yet it probably wouldn't go through a table, or a door. Any bullet is going to go through you, and hurt/kill you, if you let it hit you. So you can run, or make some kind of effort to stop the guy instead of let him kill your friends and teachers while they do the same and let themselves get shot. I have a 22, I know what it will do, it won't kill a friggen rabbit unless you hit him in the head or chest. Pick up a desk and run at him. Don't sit there and let you and your friends get shot. Run, do whatever you want. I don't really care anymore, whats done is done. I just hope if something like this happens in the future, people will do something about it instead of let it happen. :mad:

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Given what the VT students faced, I think that charging out of cover, unarmed, and cutting the pie empty handed into a hallway to confront an unknown shooter (or shooters) would be ill advised. A successful empty handed disarm is dangerous enough if the person is just threatening you with a gun, let alone actually shooting at you. If you were pinned down in a classroom, how would you know where the shooter was and when he was reloading? If you stick your head out to where you can see him, he can shoot at you. Bad move unless you're armed can make a the shot before he can. And not an option for unarmed people trapped on a "gun free" campus.

 

I think the students and faculty acted admirably and heroically given the tools they had on hand and the madman they faced. As unimaginably bad as it was, it could have been worse without the heroism of a few who took charge, blocking doors and finding escape routes.

 

And yes, had VT allowed CCW licensees to carry on campus, and a licensee had been present on the 2nd floor of Norris Hall, I think the rampage could have been stopped sooner.

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If you were pinned down in a classroom, how would you know where the shooter was and when he was reloading?

 

Nitro, Have you not learned anything from this discussion?

 

You watch the news and read the papers for the next three days, so you know everything there is to know about who the shooter is,

  • what weapons he uses,
  • their calibers and capacities,
  • which classrooms in which buldings he goes for,
  • the color of his socks,
  • whether he's left-handed or right-handed,
  • how much ammo he has,
  • what kind of ammo it is,
  • where he's been for the two hours since the previous shootings,
  • his direction and speed of travel
  • the fact that he's only had guns for a short amount of time
  • and the fact that he's trying to shoot everyone in sight at random, not just select targets.

THEN, from the coziness of your own home, while typing on the Internet, you can decide the best plan of action without all of the pressure of an unimaginably intense and stressful situation. :mad:

 

I don't know why you, lt, and myself haven't figured that out yet?

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Sorry for wanting to do something besides run and let my friends and teachers get shot, or to watch the man go down the line killing people, while I sit there and wait my turn. You can sit there and wait for him to shoot you, hoping he won't, or you can try and do something about it. I'll gladly take the fire, as long as noone else is hurt. I'm not afraid of dying, I know exactly where I am going.

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WHOA there.......before the thing breaks the threshold of reason......."A 22 won't even kill a rabbit unless you hit it in the head or chest?? Any Idea how many cops have been killed with the "Wimpy" 22?------Two that I have known. I realize that both of these men were probably pansy a$$es compared to the average keyboard commando around here, but these were both adult MEN with military experience who KNEW that they were in a gunfight. Perhaps they just didn't know how underpowered the 22 round was and allowed themselves to succumb to their fatal injuries due to a lack of will to survive. As for the "Bouncing" 9mm bullet?? Apparently the deer in your neck of the woods are up-armored, because I have had occasion to dispatch probably in the neighborhood of 20 injured deer with a 9mm from distances of 5-30 yards and have yet to see a round fail to penetrate, or the animal fail to die. Matter o fact, I've probably shot another 15-20 with a .40, and I can't see an appreciable difference between the two.

 

Monday mornin quarterbacking is just that--THE DAY AFTER. I've seen a lot of it over the years (some by me) and have come to believe that it is usually spurred about by the fact that no one likes to see the bad guy win. I think that everyone here would have LOVED to have opened the newspaper and read how a brave 19 year old freshman girl peed herself, then in a crying rage, charged the gunman, bouncing 9mm rounds off of her chemistry textbook, and proceeded to tai-bo the gunman into a coma. Unfortunately, this is the EXCEPTION, and never the rule. One thing that I can say, is that no matter how hard and how well you are trained, and how prepared you think you are, when you do find yourself on the receiving end of gunfire, you will NOT react how you now think you will. To think otherwise or criticize those who have, is the pinnacle of retarded speculation.

 

 

----Mildot

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Perhaps they just didn't know how underpowered the 22 round was and allowed themselves to succumb to their fatal injuries due to a lack of will to survive. As for the "Bouncing" 9mm bullet?? Apparently the deer in your neck of the woods are up-armored, because I have had occasion to dispatch probably in the neighborhood of 20 injured deer with a 9mm from distances of 5-30 yards and have yet to see a round fail to penetrate, or the animal fail to die. Matter o fact, I've probably shot another 15-20 with a .40, and I can't see an appreciable difference between the two.

I saw it happen, copper plated round, actually bounced off the deer. You must use some powerful rounds in your gun. The 40, considerable more power then a 9mm. Perhaps we just had a bad batch? Or you use hollow points or something. And do you know why the cops know use a 40 instead of the old 9mm? Because the 9 wouldn't do the job, it didn't put the people on the ground. The 40 had enough punch without the kick of the 45.

 

And did I say the 22 won't kill you? No, I mentioned that it takes a head or chest shot to kill a rabbit, believe me, I've shot thousands with my 22 pistol.

 

2 cops? Wow, how many people have a 22, and have used them in crime? Most popular round there is. "to me" a 22 handgun isn't very frightning. Not any handgun is really, now an AK-47 or M-16, then I'll be a bit more frightened. Noone knows what I would do, I don't know what you would do. So unless I'm involved in a gunfight we'll never know will we? ;)

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"I saw it happen, copper plated round"........"I personally, know how guns work"

-----Copper plated is different than FMJ, as you referenced in your original post, not that it would matter much to a deer at 10-15 yards.

 

"You must use some powerful rounds in your gun"

-----Why yes, they were 9mm's after all.

 

"and do you know why the cops know[sic] use a 40 instead of the old 9mm?"

-----Yes I do. I did the T&E for my agency when we made the switch. It was more for the fact that a Lieutenant wanted it so, than anything else.

 

"because the 9 wouldn't do the job, it didn't put the people on the ground."

-----I would speculate that the 9mm has put more people "On the ground" than any other pistol caliber in the history of warfare.

 

"believe me, I've shot thousands with my 22 pistol."

-----Hmmmm.....using the smallest measure of "Thousands" (i.e.--2,000), that would equate to 333 a year for the last 6 years continuously. Or, roughly one dead rabbit every single day without ceasing since you were ten years old.........Hmmmm.

 

"2 cops?"

-----Yes. Two cops that I have KNOWN. Not two that I have heard of, or two cops that I have seen on TV, two that I have personally met and KNOWN.

 

"a 22 handgun isn't very frightning. Not any handgun is really, now an AK-47 or M-16, then I'll be a bit more frightened."

-----I do not underestimate any firearm of any caliber in anyone's hands. I am personally "Frightened" as you put it, of any firearm which happens to be pointed or deployed against me, and I hope I always am. It is this God-given fear and respect that brings me home to my family each night. I thank God I am a fraidy-cat.

 

Once again, I think that we all wish that the outcome was different in Virginia, and fear what this may mean to our own rights and freedoms, but I am a firm believer that sensationalism and over reaction is best left to those who do it best---the leftist media.

 

----Mildot

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Liberty, you are a young guy and have a lot to learn so im not going to blast your comments so let me just say that you are watching too much TV and listenin to too many street stories. Your comments would discredited quickly in the real world (of which you havent been out in yet) and like i said, you've got a lot to learn about balistics and energy coefficient etc.

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Needless to say we in the UK got this terrible incident chapter and verse as I'm sure the rest of the world did. Anyone I spoke to regarding this said how they felt sympathy for the family and friends of the innocent victims. You may be mourning in the US but again the UK stands with you.

As to the way the students should have reacted - we cannot imagine how they must have felt, most of them with no firearms experience and totally petrified. With the luxury of 20:20 hind sight we can speculated how we would have dealt with it, rushing him when he was reloading etc. However you really can't say with 100% conviction that you would. Self preservation and possibly blind optomism would maybe convince you that he would shoot someone else - not you. As has been said if you knew the script and you knew you were written out in the first act maybe you would do something, as this shows though most people wouldn't. I have nothing but admiration for the old professor who acted the way he did, his family should be proud of him.

I would hope that if I was in the same situation I would react positively and "do something" but at the end of the day unless you are actually there you can't say you would.

 

photopro

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