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Magazine-spring question

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It seems every time I shoot my M4, the magazine spring gets shorter. I realize some "set" is normal, but I am not used to a spring shortening an inch or two after each use. Granted I have not taken it out that much (gone from 35'' to 31" so far), but sooner or later will we reach a status-quo here, or are you guys replacing mag-tube springs at 1,000 or 1,500 round intervals with the extended tubes for reliable function? Is there a standard PM schedual for mag-tube springs on the M4?

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I don't have a M4 but this should be the same accross the board. After I have ran about 1000rds through my SuperNova with Benelli 2-shot extension (tube & spring off M2) the spring hasn't changed that much.

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This whole magazine spring problem is a mystery to me.

 

I never heard a thing about it until like a month ago, now everyone is replacing their stock springs with aftermarket, then a different aftermarket, then going back to stock, or to a different models stock spring ... I swear just because of marketing and because they are available.

 

Like I've said before, I've never used a thing but the stock spring that came in my m4 the day I bought it. I used it with my 5 round tube and my 7 round tube and never had a problem.

 

Furthermore, who cares if the spring is shrinking? Would you prefer a 100 inch spring with really weak coils so that you could feel good about it being long enough to push the rounds out? If your gun is functioning fine with whatever spring you ended up with, I fail to see what the problem is. It just seems like you are OCD as ****.

 

I'll also say that the only spring issues I've ever seen with ANY gun have been shooter related, not gun related (ie newb shooters not holding the stock to the shoulder properly) ... and I suppose ar15 magazines, but that's more of a follower issue than a spring issue.

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This whole magazine spring problem is a mystery to me.

 

I never heard a thing about it until like a month ago, now everyone is replacing their stock springs with aftermarket, then a different aftermarket, then going back to stock, or to a different models stock spring ... I swear just because of marketing and because they are available.

 

Like I've said before, I've never used a thing but the stock spring that came in my m4 the day I bought it. I used it with my 5 round tube and my 7 round tube and never had a problem.

 

Furthermore, who cares if the spring is shrinking? Would you prefer a 100 inch spring with really weak coils so that you could feel good about it being long enough to push the rounds out? If your gun is functioning fine with whatever spring you ended up with, I fail to see what the problem is. It just seems like you are OCD as ****.

 

I'll also say that the only spring issues I've ever seen with ANY gun have been shooter related, not gun related (ie newb shooters not holding the stock to the shoulder properly) ... and I suppose ar15 magazines, but that's more of a follower issue than a spring issue.

 

I have had my M4 turn into a jam-o-matic using the M4 spring and firing heavy loads. I did not buy an M1 S90 spring for fun. I bought it because it fixed a problem encountered when shooting 3" ammunition on the last 2 rounds. It is a 35" spring and the M4 spring is a 27" spring. They both go in a weapon with a 7-shot length tube from the same company. They both have the same tension-per-inch or whatever you want to call it. I believe "spring rate" is the term. I find this VERY odd.

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Well, again, isn't your gun shooting flawlessly now with the new spring?

 

I agree that it if the specs say it shouldn't be needed, it's odd and annoying that it perhaps IS needed ... but it's a pretty simple fix all in all. I wish all my mechanical problems were that easy to fix.

 

I wonder if they've changed spring specs since I got mine, or what ... it never even occurred to me at the time I did the tube switch that my spring would have less pressure. I just assumed it would work, and it did.

 

It's somewhat bothersome that yours is not working with the stock components. I don't know what to tell you, I know you've already contacted customer support, but perhaps another call to ask them about your spring questions and to badger them about why you have to use an m1 spring in your m4 for it to cycle reliably.

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2007 Corvette Z51

 

Fun stuff, I am still in LS1 world being a college student and all. 01 WS6 m6

 

Yes, mine did not function with the M4 spring and the long tube and hotter 3" buckshot rounds.

 

With 00 Buck 3" it did fine 90% of the time, but with the 3" #4 buck, which kicks a lot harder (for whatever reason, I have not calculated weight/velocity and all that jazz), it would not cycle.

 

The inertia of the gun moving back (I tried limp-wristing and choking the gun, neither mattered) would keep the shell in the tube partially/not letting it eject on top of the carrier fully. The bolt would then lock back, the round would be on top of the carrier, and the weapon would be out of the fight for the last round in the mag.

 

With the SRM spring this problem occured even using 2.75" shells.

 

The M4 spring limited it to hotter 3" magnum loads

 

The M1 spring fixed the issue.

 

Again, a 7-shot tube is a 7-shot tube. Why the M4 has a weak spring and the M1 got a good one is beyond me. I use the good one.

 

As for not fitting enough shells, that is balony. I took the M4 spring and the M1 spring and put them in my old factory extension and then stacked shells on them. There was less than 2mm of difference in the height of the shell column when both were compressed to their physical maximum. Oddly, the M4 spring has more coils than the M1 S90 spring, but it is shorter and of smaller diameter.

 

The only limitation I notice with the M1 spring is that it is more of a PITA to install. Also, they tend to vary from 41-44 coils and a ew " in length (after 100 rounds when they take a set, they all seem to be around 30-32", compared to the M4's 26-28")

 

Benelli will get a call from me, I am curious too.

 

My guess is that most of you who are shooting with the M4 spring and long tube don't shoot 3" magnum buckshot or HEAVY turkey loads.

 

Buy some Remington 3" magnum #4 buck and try it on the last 2 rounds with your M4 spring and report back. I am curious!

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For what it's worth

 

spring.JPG

Image Hosting

 

24 inches after 10k rounds, leading me to believe I probably had a 27 inch spring to begin with.

 

Using that logic, after 10K rounds my M1 S90 spring will be = to an M4 spring. I like it. It did go from 35" to 31" in a quick fast hurry though.

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Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where the girl walks in on George after a cold shower and see's, well......... Shrinkage. he he

 

Anyway, I went to the Wolf Spring site and bought their universal shotgun spring and cut out about 4 inches. Then inserted and fired. Worked well.

 

Now I have taken care of my unfounded paranoia of the stock spring failing. It's all done for the satisfaction of my mind, more than the performance gain acquired.

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Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where the girl walks in on George after a cold shower and see's, well......... Shrinkage. he he

 

Anyway, I went to the Wolf Spring site and bought their universal shotgun spring and cut out about 4 inches. Then inserted and fired. Worked well.

 

Now I have taken care of my unfounded paranoia of the stock spring failing. It's all done for the satisfaction of my mind, more than the performance gain acquired.

 

I went with the stock Benelli M1 S90 spring b/c I am a sucker for OEM stuff and have NEVER heard of an M1 S90 having issues.

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I went with the stock Benelli M1 S90 spring b/c I am a sucker for OEM stuff and have NEVER heard of an M1 S90 having issues.

 

 

I doubt the stock spring would ever have an issue. That's the problem. Im battling my logical mind vs. my paranoid and instant gratification mind.

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I doubt the stock spring would ever have an issue. That's the problem. Im battling my logical mind vs. my paranoid and instant gratification mind.

 

The men in white suits are on their way.

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I doubt the stock spring would ever have an issue. That's the problem. Im battling my logical mind vs. my paranoid and instant gratification mind.

 

When I can fire the weapon and have it jam on demand vs. firing the weapon and being UNABLE to jam it, I call that a problem with the stock spring. Thus I replaced it with another "stock" spring, albeit from another model. Maybe Benelli should have standardized the springs for their 7-shot tubes. WOuld have made more sense than introducing another part # to the catalogue.

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The men in white suits are on their way.

 

 

NOOOO! They were here last week. How do you know?!?!?!

 

Did you send them?

 

I cannot stand the restraints again, being in isolation, the injections, the electro convulsive thereapy, or my psychiatrist.

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What luck have you guys een that are using the Wolff springs? I am seeing the last rounds jam too. I am using the D.M.W.'s One piece full length tube with the spring that comes with it. I am going to use the factory Benelli spring and see if that cures it.

I have also noticed that it only jams when I use field load. When I use Federal full power 00 buck it runs perfect. Maybe the field loads are short stroking slightly and that is causing the jams?

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Guest cleefurd

Our M4's arrived with mag springs which averaged 26"-27" new, and would "set" at differing lengths (seldom less than 25" unless left loaded to the gills for months on end), similar to what others have encountered. Benelli admitedly uses springs from the lowest bidder, not made in house. They kink easily as well... never a good sign, and indicative of less than optimal materials and/or tempering.

 

Wolff's 12ga mag tube springs are usually the correct O.D., yet cut/fashioned from their stand-by .040" wire for 12 ga. apps in general. Benelli "usually" uses .042" wire. Wolff's 12 ga mag springs are available in 40 inch cut to length offerings from Brownells, and Walt Wolff previously (as of Nov 20, 2008) stated they had no catalog item for the M4. We now have 250 custom springs taylor made for us by W.C. Wolff in .042 wire dia, with deuce-and-a-half wraps at each end (just like OEM), that arrive to us at 32-1/2" in length. We arrived at that configuration by replicating scenarios that led to failure by user's accounts, and personal experience, such as; Shooting downhill, either from ledge, roof-top, or otherwise steep incline, and from certain hi-inertia loads that would cause the last few rds to "hover" ahead of the shell release mech until delinquent for ejection onto elevator (missing the door). Once we were able to ELIMINATE FTF (failure to feed) incidents with the .040" wire (at 35.5" o.a.l), we calculated the corresponding length where the same spring rate could be attained utilizing .042" wire in order to take advantage of Wolff's inherent "plus 15%" power rating over similar sized wire. End result is what we did final testing on.

While asking 20 users their opinion might yield 20 differing plausible answers, we actually gleaned our data from actual accounts of FTF issues encountered by M4 owners who approached us, or reported issues on forums such as these. Our first accounts (mine) were in combat and combat related training (USMC Retired 1983-2005). Yes everyone struggles with these issues. And yes they do occur with increased regularity w/ FL tubes. Unlike the previous post where the user remedied with M1 springs, our M1 springs would NOT mate with our followers (M1 springs O.D. was too large to fit into the M4 follower)

 

If anyone is interested in obtaining one of these springs, they are offered to the public by "carriercomp" in cooperation with W.C. Wolff Co. Unlike other spring replacements, we feel confident that if you are experiencing difficulty with your OEM spring mated to FL mag tubes, once you try this replacement/configuration, your search for reliable shell delivery to the elevator will be over. You may contact us directly, or through these posts for more information.

[email protected]

Edited by cleefurd
hi-lite last paragraph

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Our M4's arrived with mag springs which averaged 26"-27" new, and would "set" at differing lengths (seldom less than 25" unless left loaded to the gills for months on end), similar to what others have encountered. Benelli admitedly uses springs from the lowest bidder, not made in house. They kink easily as well... never a good sign, and indicative of less than optimal materials and/or tempering.

 

Wolff's 12ga mag tube springs are usually the correct O.D., yet cut/fashioned from their stand-by .040" wire for 12 ga. apps in general. Benelli "usually" uses .042" wire. Wolff's 12 ga mag springs are available in 40 inch cut to length offerings from Brownells, and Walt Wolff previously (as of Nov 20, 2008) stated they had no catalog item for the M4. We now have 250 custom springs taylor made for us by W.C. Wolff in .042 wire dia, with deuce-and-a-half wraps at each end (just like OEM), that arrive to us at 32-1/2" in length. We arrived at that configuration by replicating scenarios that led to failure by user's accounts, and personal experience, such as; Shooting downhill, either from ledge, roof-top, or otherwise steep incline, and from certain hi-inertia loads that would cause the last few rds to "hover" ahead of the shell release mech until delinquent for ejection onto elevator (missing the door). Once we were able to ELIMINATE FTF (failure to feed) incidents with the .040" wire (at 35.5" o.a.l), we calculated the corresponding length where the same spring rate could be attained utilizing .042" wire in order to take advantage of Wolff's inherent "plus 15%" power rating over similar sized wire. End result is what we did final testing on.

While asking 20 users their opinion might yield 20 differing plausible answers, we actually gleaned our data from actual accounts of FTF issues encountered by M4 owners who approached us, or reported issues on forums such as these. Our first accounts (mine) were in combat and combat related training (USMC Retired 1983-2005). Yes everyone struggles with these issues. And yes they do occur with increased regularity w/ FL tubes. Unlike the previous post where the user remedied with M1 springs, our M1 springs would NOT mate with our followers (M1 springs O.D. was too large to fit into the M4 follower)

 

If anyone is interested in obtaining one of these springs, they are offered to the public by "carriercomp" in cooperation with W.C. Wolff Co. Unlike other spring replacements, we feel confident that if you are experiencing difficulty with your OEM spring mated to FL mag tubes, once you try this replacement/configuration, your search for reliable shell delivery to the elevator will be over. You may contact us directly, or through these posts for more information.

 

How about a link to your site or an email address.

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I am a bit disapointed that Benelli uses sub-par materials in such a high end shotgun. The springs are relatively inexpensive so it seems to me why not upgrade the materials, tempering etc. etc.

To have a malfunction is to be expected in ANY weapon platform. It can and eventually will happen. But to have malfunctions on a regular basis from a weapon right out of the box with no cure other than to replace a component (mag spring) with an aftermarket replacement is unexceptable.

I think Benelli should step up to the plate and offer a better spring that does not compress like what we are seeing.

I have had 30 round AR mags loaded for years on end with no noticable loss in performance.

Anyway, I am in the same boat and would like to have a shotgun that will unload all the rounds, from the first to the last.

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Guest cleefurd

Sorry.

[email protected]

 

Let subject line read "M4 Spring Only", and we will place it in a contact file for immediate notification when our custom order from Wolff arrives (they do not stock an M4 specific spring, which is why we have them custom make ours). We ordered extras for use with our tubes, and for seperate orders to accomodate anyone using other 7 rd capacity M4's. We'll have 250 in stock before Christmas if W.C. Wolff is able to meet their projected ship date, so know there won't be any shortage. We list them at $12 each, $5 priority mail anywhere in the U.S. Combined shipping available.

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Sorry.

[email protected]

 

Let subject line read "M4 Spring Only", and we will place it in a contact file for immediate notification when our custom order from Wolff arrives (they do not stock an M4 specific spring, which is why we have them custom make ours). We ordered extras for use with our tubes, and for seperate orders to accomodate anyone using other 7 rd capacity M4's. We'll have 250 in stock before Christmas if W.C. Wolff is able to meet their projected ship date, so know there won't be any shortage. We list them at $12 each, $5 priority mail anywhere in the U.S. Combined shipping available.

 

How/where do we place our orders and what payment do you accept?

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Guest cleefurd

You may reserve via email; [email protected] subject line "M4 spring only".

 

Paying via PayPal, or with USPO money orders. Please do NOT send Paypal payment until notified of "In Stock" status. Money orders can be sent to our Gunbroker.com address during check-out (we list them there when in stock... next shipment from W.C. Wolff completes this Friday expected in stock by Dec 27)

 

Note; Initially we requested chrome silicon springs, HTCS (High Tensile value Carbon Steel) is what Wolff is supplying, and recommends as superior in this application. Chrome silicon works better in hi-cyclic rate extreme heat applications, where frequent replacement is the norm (race engines, etc). Chrome silicon while available, will not out perform HTCS, it may out sell HTCS, but our goal is optimal performance, side-stepping frills. W.C. Wolff has been at this 50 years... we trust their engineering advice implicitly.

 

You may order direct, or through Gunbroker.com when listed.

Edited by cleefurd
About material selection HTCS vs Chrome-Silicon

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