Jump to content

Optics...?


Unobtanium

Recommended Posts

What optics are you running on your M4? Pictures?

 

I am considering either a Trijicon Reflex II or a Trijicon RX30 reflex.

 

I like the Eotech 552/65 Rev. F as well, but have heard bad things about it's power management (eating batteries/corroded terminals). Also, Trijicon answers their phone. Eotech bounces you between machines of people who "are on vacation but in case of an emergency..." as their primary answering system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What optics are you running on your M4? Pictures?

 

I am considering either a Trijicon Reflex II or a Trijicon RX30 reflex.

 

I like the Eotech 552/65 Rev. F as well, but have heard bad things about it's power management (eating batteries/corroded terminals). Also, Trijicon answers their phone. Eotech bounces you between machines of people who "are on vacation but in case of an emergency..." as their primary answering system.

 

Whats wrong with ghost sites? What are you going to be using it for that you wanna mount a red dot? Just curious

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aimpoint t1 in low profile larue mount.

 

I'd link the image and page but their site is down ...

 

laruetactical.com

 

Eotechs work well, but they are too high to use with the standard stock ... which is what I'm hoping the t1 will solve. I haven't bought one yet, but I may if I sell my collapsible stock.

 

Eotechs do eat batteries yes, but corroded terminals? News to me.

 

edit: also, know that eotech fixed a broken 511 for me free of charge, a year and a half after the warranty had expired ... and they did it damn fast too. A lot of companies wouldn't do that.

 

If you have an issue with your site, fill out the form for RMA on their website, and you'll get a response within a day (I always have).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably what the rest of us who have/want red dot scopes want... faster target acquisition.

 

+1

 

I can shoot 2-3MOA at 100m with my AR15A2 and Mil-spec ammo, but it takes a LOT longer up close. Same with my Benelli M4 up close. Accurate and does just fine, but it sure ain't quick when I am using slugs. The dot sight will speed up target aquisition a lot for me based on how I perform with an AR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will never understand why people will spend so much on a red dot... I do have one but i paid a reasonable price (130.00), not 400+.

 

Have you ever USED an expensive optic?

 

I don't think you have, because if you had, you wouldnt be asking why ... just lamenting the fact that they were expensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have, and i see no difference in an expensive one compared to mine.

 

 

I have used VXIII Leupy's, Nikon Monarchs, and a Gen III Springfield. I have also shot bargain basement stuff like Tasco and Bushnell.

 

The difference is that the nice stuff has ACCURATE and repeatable adjustments, the glass is clear with good, durable coatings, the paralax is easily adjusted out, the very edges of the glass show no distortion compared to the center. Oh, they don't break NEARLY as often either.

 

The US military purchases from the lowest bidder that can meet the spec they set. Now, do you HONESTLY think that your $130 sight couldn't be procured cheaper than the Aimpoints Uncle Sugar is spec'ing? So, there has to be a reason right? I think the reasons I listed above sum it up.

 

Will I ever use it on anything but paper or a deer or something? I hope not. However, that is like never buying anything but FMJ's because I never want to have to stake my life on my handguns. It just isn't smart nor does it belong with the warrior mentality that each person should cultivate.

 

I did not buy a $1600.00 shotgun to put a $16.00 Tru-Glo (or most $130 sights, although the $170 Burris Fast Fire is decent from what I have seen, I just don't like removing the sight to change the battery) on it. I bought it because it was the best, and it is a system, and a system is only as good as it's weakest link, and quite frankly, a $16.00 scope is a heck of a weak link. Kinda wastes the $1300.00 I spent over a used Charles Daley or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will never understand why people will spend so much on a red dot... I do have one but i paid a reasonable price (130.00), not 400+.

 

I have owned rifles where the scope cost as much or more than the rifle itself. My Ruger VT .223 was an example. 6.5-20 40mm Leupold VXIII. However, 1/2 MOA at 400 meters was the result, as was a crisp, bright sight picture, edge to edge, at 20X.

 

Here is a good way to separate a decent scope from a crappy one. Look through them both at dusk on the same power setting. 9 times out of 10 you will notice a VERY marked difference in how late in the day you can still make out what you are looking at through either scope.

 

However, some of the cheaper scopes are getting some decent glass and coatings now,and the difference seems to lay in adjustment repeatability and durability of the unit as a whole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No it's not good enough for military use, but WHAT CIVILIAN NEEDS A MILITARY GRADE OPTIC?

 

Need is irrelevant. Humans don't NEED anything other than food air and shelter. Everything you spend your money on that isn't one of these things is a want ... and I WANT the best of everything that I can afford.

 

I agree with basically everything unobtanium said.

 

I've used a ton of optics, and there is a clear and undeniable difference between real optics and fake optics.

 

The BEST fake I ever used was a $99 dollar ACOG. It had adjustments that didnt move on their own, surprisingly clear glass, and a crisp crosshair. Then I used it when it was 30 or so degrees out (half of the year in NY :\ ) and the entire thing shattered, the entire front and rear glass lenses just absolutely ate the dust. Why? Because they're not made of the same material, or to the same spec, or to the same quality, and most importantly they have no warranty.

 

The 2 fake aimpoints I have used have both broken pretty fast, had absolutely horrible mounts, didn't hold zero at all, the adjustments moved on their own, the glass was a joke, and it was just a hindrance to use them.

 

Whereas I have abused the ever loving **** out of eotechs and aimpoints, as well as various ranged scopes in larue mounts, and none of them have ever broken.

 

So yea, the difference as I see it:

 

1) - Quality glass that doesn't break, fog or get filled with water.

2) - Accurate and repeatable adjustments, and the ability to hold zero when taken off and replaced on the weapon

3) - The warranty of a company that stands behind their product. I recently got an eotech 511 fixed for free a full year or more out of it's 2 year warranty date (it didn't break, it just wasn't getting as bright on startup as it should have been).

4) - The buy it once mentality. I see no reason to buy a piece of **** scope that costs 1/3 that of the real thing if it will consistently perform in a sub par fashion. I will never be anything but a civilian, but I want/demand performance from everything I buy.

5) - Do you really think it's a good idea to put a $100 airsoft scope on a close range weapon that's meant for self defense in your home? It's begging for problems ... you're undermining all the strength engineering of your weapon by creating a weak link that you are then going to depend on. And everyone knows weak links break at the worst possible times.

6) - The satisfaction of having a quality product that you can depend on.

 

 

I will never be anything but a civilian. I have never had military training, nor do I NEED military quality stuff ... but since it is available, and I WANT military quality stuff in the event I should have to use it in a military manner, I see no reason why not if I can afford it. I see it as a massive waste to spend money on anything but the best I can afford, as I will surely just be unhappy with my purchase and end up ultimately getting something better anyways. That 99 I dropped on a fake (which broke) could have been spent on a legitimate acog which would not have broken.

 

There will always be 2 types of people ... the guy that buys one nightforce, absolutely loves it, shoots well with it, and never has to replace it ... and the guy that goes "oh for that price I can buy 10 of my knockoffs, and if one of them breaks I can just replace it", deals with a mediocre/subpar scope that is plagued with problems, but can replace in quantity what he lacks in quality.

 

I'd rather be the guy with the nightforce.

 

ps - This is not to say that ALL lesser expensive scopes are pieces of junk and going to break, but generally when it costs less, you're losing something ... mainly durability and repeatability if not quality of glass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Duggan hit it on the head here.

 

Want trumps need EVERY TIME. Period.

 

If it were not true, there would be no sports cars. There would be no golf courses, no resorts, no holidays, and a lot of creativity would be lost.

 

There would be no www.benelliusa.com either, and you wouldn't have an internet connection to access it from if there were...if WANT did not trump NEED at some point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I found my optic

 

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=68

 

http://www.rapidreticle.com/sopscauto.htm

 

I like this because:

 

It is QD via a lever and I can revert to irons IMMEDIATELY for whatever reason.

 

I do not have to remove the sight from the base to replace the battery. (Thus my zero is maintained)

 

It is under $500 : )

 

It has an on/off so I do not have to rely on automatic brightness,although it features it as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a laure mount, you can take it on/off 100000 times and it will retain zero. I'm not kidding. They are the best in the industry, do some research. I've personally shot under moa on targets at 200 yards (longest range I have access to :\), removed the larue mounted scope, replaced it, and shot dead on. It can do it all day long.

 

I almost bought an idondot a while back, then decided I wanted the T1 more. I don't have either yet.

 

I'm assuming this is your first larue product (since you didn't know about their legendary return to zero), I hope you like it, they are a great company that make great products with the best lifetime warranty in the business. I have like 10 larue products, I can't really say enough about them.

 

Lets see, 2 eotech mounts, 1 aimpoint mount, 1 acog mount, 2 rails, 1 offset flashlight mount, 1 vertical grip, 1 back up iron sight, soon to be one stealth upper, and 1 scoutlight adapter.

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=219

 

Mark larue spends a lot of time on his forums there, lots of interesting industry related stuff there.

 

edit: I seem to remember the battery life on those irondots is ridiculously long, you should be able to leave it on all the time without killing the battery, IIRC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a laure mount, you can take it on/off 100000 times and it will retain zero. I'm not kidding. They are the best in the industry, do some research. I've personally shot under moa on targets at 200 yards (longest range I have access to :\), removed the larue mounted scope, replaced it, and shot dead on. It can do it all day long.

 

I almost bought an idondot a while back, then decided I wanted the T1 more. I don't have either yet.

 

I'm assuming this is your first larue product (since you didn't know about their legendary return to zero), I hope you like it, they are a great company that make great products with the best lifetime warranty in the business. I have like 10 larue products, I can't really say enough about them.

 

Lets see, 2 eotech mounts, 1 aimpoint mount, 1 acog mount, 2 rails, 1 offset flashlight mount, 1 vertical grip, 1 back up iron sight, soon to be one stealth upper, and 1 scoutlight adapter.

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=219

 

Mark larue spends a lot of time on his forums there, lots of interesting industry related stuff there.

 

edit: I seem to remember the battery life on those irondots is ridiculously long, you should be able to leave it on all the time without killing the battery, IIRC.

 

I called Larue and then the Pride/Fowler company. Cody @ Larue was polite, and spoke confidently of the Larue mount. I have not heard ANYTHING bad about Larue in 5 years on AR15.com. That is impressive in and of itself.

 

I e-mailed the Pride Fowler company asking about recoil and battery life capabilities of their sight. I have not yet checked my inbox. If Larue sells it though, I bet its g2g.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You use it with the fixed stock? It's low enough to use without really altering your cheek weld?

 

I do run a fixed stock (Cali). You do have to alter your check weld as the sights are not co-witnessed. The mount just blocks the irons. Even without the LaRue mount, you cannot get a co-witness.

 

Nonetheless, you can get an actual checkweld a bit higher on the stock. I used to run an Aimpoint M3 and like the T-1 better.

 

The T-1 is the perfect shotgun optic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...