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Nikolai552

Sighted in my SN TAC W/red dot

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Deer hunting seems like just about the most boring prospect on the face of the earth to me. NY is absolutely overrun with deer, I see multiple deer daily in fields or almost getting hit on the roads. If I wanted to kill a deer, I could just sit on my deck any given morning and wait for a herd of them to come into my yard by my pond. Would killing a bunch of dumb defenseless animals give me reason or authority to talk about accuracy?

 

 

Who's the moron. DEFENSELESS DEER. Thats funny. There is multiple deer in NY because humans are overtaking the land they live on. Dumb animals. I bet they think the same about you.

 

Hunting is not as easy as you think. Your neighor could "snipe" you off when your sitting on your deck.( I bet you have a tactical plan for that to.) I guess that makes you a dumb defenceless animal to.

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Yes, I consider an animal that does not attack me and does not have means of defense, defenseless. They freeze in headlights, they stand still sometimes when you shoot at them, and they are just not very smart. I work with plenty of hunters, and they all say the same thing. He-ll, I've been on the skeet range blasting away, and deer have walked out of the woods 75-100 yards away and started to eat the grass on the range field. Tell me these animals are smart. I've had my crosshairs on plenty of deer, but see no point in repeatedly killing something that is of no value to me.

 

But I could care less about deer. I see them all the time, they are a problem in this area, and if I wanted to kill them, I easily could. I don't see the thrill in killing something that isn't exotic or dangerous. I especially don't see the thrill in wasting a whole day sitting in a treestand waiting for some dumb animal to come bumbling along so I can gun it down. If I was to hunt, I'd want to actively track and stalk things, not sit around waiting for some foolish deer to walk beneath my treestand.

 

I don't expect a forum full of hunters to agree with me, but that's where I stand. The only reason I'd want to kill a deer would be to out of annoyance, or if I wanted to eat it for some reason.

 

Dove or bird hunting, I totally understand, and would love to do. As I understand it, you have to actually move along and always be ready for things to fly out of the brush. You're not sitting stationary for 5 hours waiting for something to come to you. The thought of deer "hunting" puts me to sleep.

 

Hardly relevant to this thread, or my post at large.

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I agree with M2,

 

Keep trying niko. You will find the right load combo for your supernova. It always sucks having to buy more and more ammo to try to find the right load. Hang in there.

 

Novaking

 

It certainly does. Just hope the next ones i decide to try work for me so i don't have to keep forking out the cash.

 

-Duggan, Rodent's/pests i can understand killing because of the annoyance factor, but not big game. Deer don't do anything wrong, they are overpopulated. That is partly why we hunters hunt. If you want to kill them, get a license and hunt for meat or trophy.

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Yes, I consider an animal that does not attack me and does not have means of defense, defenseless. They freeze in headlights, they stand still sometimes when you shoot at them, and they are just not very smart. I work with plenty of hunters, and they all say the same thing. He-ll, I've been on the skeet range blasting away, and deer have walked out of the woods 75-100 yards away and started to eat the grass on the range field. Tell me these animals are smart. I've had my crosshairs on plenty of deer, but see no point in repeatedly killing something that is of no value to me.

 

But I could care less about deer. I see them all the time, they are a problem in this area, and if I wanted to kill them, I easily could. I don't see the thrill in killing something that isn't exotic or dangerous. I especially don't see the thrill in wasting a whole day sitting in a treestand waiting for some dumb animal to come bumbling along so I can gun it down. If I was to hunt, I'd want to actively track and stalk things, not sit around waiting for some foolish deer to walk beneath my treestand.

 

I don't expect a forum full of hunters to agree with me, but that's where I stand. The only reason I'd want to kill a deer would be to out of annoyance, or if I wanted to eat it for some reason.

 

Dove or bird hunting, I totally understand, and would love to do. As I understand it, you have to actually move along and always be ready for things to fly out of the brush. You're not sitting stationary for 5 hours waiting for something to come to you. The thought of deer "hunting" puts me to sleep.

 

Hardly relevant to this thread, or my post at large.[/quote

 

 

huh. Hunting deer and the deer itself are valueable. But you don't understand now. You won't understand later. I don't hunt from a stand. I stalk hunt. I think hunting from a stand is boring to. You said you don't see a thrill in killing something that isn't dangerous but you thing bird hunting would fun.

 

 

People are hunters and people are not. Your not even close. And thats fine. But the lease you can do, is respect animals and what hunters do.

 

Novaking

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People are hunters and people are not. Your not even close. And thats fine. But the lease you can do, is respect animals and what hunters do.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. How about we get back on topic and find me some good rifled slugs? :)

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Couldn't have said it better myself. How about we get back on topic and find me some good rifled slugs? :)

 

Are you shooting 3 shot group before adjusting your scope? Are you letting your barrel cool down inbetween group? Are you shooting from a good rest? Also try dry firing a few times to practice trigger control. You could be flinching. Slug tend to do that to people. These four things WILL help with your groups. Try them. If you are, they your running out of slugs to try :(

 

Novaking

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I'm going to try and keep this short,

 

So much for keeping it short...

 

Let me show you how that works...

 

Step 1: STFU = shut the **** up.

 

Step 2: Log off the computer.

 

Step 3: Go downstairs and tell your Mom you don't think your med's are working for you anymore.

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Sorry to stray again Niko... (I just couldn't help myself).

 

Thanks for the PM.

 

Good points Novaking. I remember experimenting with my 870 WM trying to find the best slug combo. First in the smoothbore and then the rifled barrel (OUCH).

 

I saw some positive comments on Foster slugs while searching the web.

 

I've never used a rifled choke and the reviews seemed mixed, but who knows? If your shooting well like Novaking suggested and still don't group well you might want to try one.

 

Also don't be afraid to ask the guy's from the sportsman's club what has worked for them. You can usually find them up at the local VFW or Legion Post after they shoot. There is a lot of wisdom in the "old-timers". Just be sure to ask before they have too many cocktails.

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There is some good info on the thread by TW Houston "Rifled Choke Tube". Maybe you can find out how things turned out for him with is SN???

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So much for keeping it short...

 

Sorry, you were just so wrong on so many things that it took awhile to prove you 100% wrong on so many points. How does it feel to be completely wrong? Does it burn under your e-skin?

 

Good job avoiding the issue though, and starting on a personal attack of me and my family. I'll call you Barack Obama from now on.

 

Now take your own advice and STFU and stop talking about stuff that is clearly above your thick skulled head.

 

Go back to shooting the wrong type of slug through your gun and bragging about how pro you are, moron, rofl.

 

And to those still talking about me hunting for some reason, how many times can I say it, 100% irrelevant. I've had my hunting license and tags since I was 18 or so, I get tags each year, never use them, and give them to friends if they need them. I am in school for 18 credits and work full time. Even if I wanted to, I wouldn't have time to hunt.

 

I have 0 respect for deer. They eat my garden, my shrubs and my trees. I almost hit them every single night driving home from work. I know a few people that do land conservation work for the state, and they despise deer. I see no reason why I should respect deer.

 

But back on topic.

 

To find your perfect slug, do the following:

 

1) - buy 2 boxes (10 rounds) of every type of rifled slug you can find.

2) - set up a large target at 40,50 yards, whatever you want to sight in for.

3) - Shoot 3 shot groups, changing the target every 3 rounds and labeling each target as you take it down. DO NOT ADJUST YOUR OPTIC YET. So long as you are on paper, it doesn't matter where they hit, only how tight the group is.

4) - After you've shot all your ammo, you should have 3 targets per brand times however many brands you bought. Find the labeled target with the tightest pattern, and buy some more of that ammo.

5) - If you have a few brands that are close, buy some of both and duke it out between them with the same method.

6) - When you've settled on a slug that performs well, you then sight in your optic for that specific slug. If you're switching your optic after every shot or between every brand, you're wasting time and money.

 

and of course all the regular things you need to be mindful of when sighting in a weapon ... using a bench/sandbag, pulling the trigger slowly, using the best optic you can (I'd suggest using a magnified one if you can somehow, it really makes it easier to eliminate user error from the equation and focus on letting the round perform to it's max potential.).

 

If you've done it right, you should be able to find out which slugs work best for you, and you will have 20 or so targets to refer to when you're thinking about buying certain brands. Like you can look and see that your 2nd best shooting slug is 1/3 the price of the best shooting slug, so you can see what to buy based on that.

 

Good luck, it's really all about shooting as much as you can and eliminating user error. I know it's a pain in the ass to change targets every 3 rounds, or at least tape your target, but it's needed to provide clear and decisive results, which is what you are looking for.

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Think i might be buying some slugs tonight. Brenneke makes some rather expensive rifled slugs http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=712244&t=11082005

 

Worth Trying?

 

"Designed specifically for smooth bore barrels but can also be used in rifled choke tube barrels or fully rifled barrels"

 

Thought you weren't supposed to use rifled slugs in a rifled barrel?

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You're not.

 

However there's nothing stopping you from using whatever type of slug you want in your gun provided it's the right length and gauge, some will just work better than others.

 

If you have a rifled bore and a rifled slug, I don't know how accurate it would be, but it shouldn't hurt anything. I have never tried it, as I've never personally owned a quality rifled shotgun barrel.

 

But again, eliminating user error is key. Take your time and shoot well so your results show the slugs performance, not your shooting performance.

 

You should get pretty good results with some brand of slug.

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Hey Duggan,

 

Looks like you must have faked a sick day and stayed home from school today so you could continue to spew on this thread. I can just see you sitting there at your computer in your tightey whitey's munchin on your second bowl of Lucky Charm's.

 

Look back and see who started getting personal first.

 

I wish I knew how to start a poll in a thread to see how many people would vote for you to go away. I'm sure I've wasted other peoples time in responding to you, and to them I am sorry, but at this point I'm finding it pretty damn fun and am not sorry to let you know that I don't let little people like you live rent free in my head. So whatever you were saying about your burning for e-skin is way too much info for me. You should join a STD forum for help with that :eek:.

 

I'm hoping that I can end this now by explaining my use of a sabot in a smoothbore. If you think I am the first person to try this you're 100% wrong (after all you said you tried it yourself, remember???).

 

But before I go there I need to try and clear up what I was talking about when it came to hunting...

If you assumed I was bragging about taking an animal with one shot, it proves your ignorance of what hunting means to people that you can't seem to understand. Most hunters including myself take pride in their desire to take an animal cleanly with as few shots as possible (humanity & meat conservation). I do not consider myself a pro but since I've been hunting & shooting for almost twice as long as you've been alive, I think I have some experience to offer the thread originator. If you do things differently in NY then I'm glad your there, and I'm not!

 

I own a 20 Gauge Remington 1100 (passed on from my little Sis, to my Son, and now my Daughter). Aside from the bird barrel, we have a smoothbore iron-sight slug barrel that is used for our zoned slug-only deer season. With the advent of the improved slugs (both rifled & sabot) I decided to experiment and found through bench shooting that a Remington Copper Solid Sabot produced a comparable group @50 yds to the rifled Remington HV Slugger's. We hunt on my property and the deer stand locations for my children are bordered by a heavily wooded Oak ridge transitioning into a Tamarack slough. A 50yd shot is the max they would would have. If you check out the ballistics for these two slugs you will see that the 1/2oz HV Rifled lead slug carries 848ft-lbs of force at 50yds with the 5/8oz Copper Solid giving 1187ft-lbs. Now that's 339 more ft-lbs of force (40% more!) imparted on the animal using the sabot. So as I was trying to say earlier, that don't mean squat when your shooting paper, but when you're shooting hide, flesh, and bone it sure does!!! I figured it's well worth the extra price for a box of 5 slugs. It was no surprise that at >50yds the sabots scatter quickly. So my conclusion (based on the physical evidence) is that at 50yds or less the copper slug was not tumbling yet, so there wasn't any appreciable innacuracy but a big advantage in energy. So do you get it now that no rifling of THIS sabot through THIS smoothbore at THIS distance is a non factor in it's accuracy.

 

Now back to the original post... Niko was looking to find a slug for deer hunting that shoot's well at 50yds or less. For me to suggest a sabot (albeit not really knowing how it would perform in his particular gun) was not stupid or out of line, and in fact offers the possibility of a distinct advantage for taking down a thick bodied trophy! And in fact, the energy advantage in the 12ga slugs could prove even greater than the 40% we got in the 20ga. But who knows until you try. Thus the suggestion.

 

I see you have a lot of experience in shooting your M4 and I don't remember trying to argue that, it is when you start to attempt to relate to hunting (or worse yet argue about why you hate deer so much) that I got p'ed off. Someone doesn't work so hard to argue their point like you did without having some issues. Chill out and remember we're on the same side when it comes to the love of gun's.

 

I choose to push the Core-Lokt Ultra's through my M2 slug gun, and I've found that Federal Barne's Expanders group best in the 870WM my Son now shoots.

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I'm 22 and a senior in business school, so I hardly have to fake a sick day if I want to skip my classes.

 

I'll argue that the additonal ft-lbs of your sabot slug are due to the additional 1/8 oz of weight and have nothing really to do with being a sabot design, but it's a moot point, as sabot slugs are often offered in heavier weights than rifled slugs it seems.

 

I hate deer for the same reason every texan I've ever talked to hates illegal immigrants ... there's too damn many of them, they cause nothing but problems, they take up natural resources, and they're just a general nuisance. Odd comparison I know ... but deer are just destructive and annoying to my existance. I don't expect you to understand.

 

But that out of the way, well said and argued.

 

-Duggan.

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3-shot group using Remington 1oz Slugger slugs from my M4. I was standing, firing without a sling, taking maybe 5-8 seconds max between shots. Weapon used was an M4 with an IC choke tube. I have not gotten my Pride-Fowler/Larue combo yet.

rt3nv9.jpg

 

 

At 25 yards, it produces 2-3" groups offhand without a problem. Using Winchester Power Point slugs, it seems to group about 2/3 as large as with remington slugs.

67qm1j.jpg

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NOW BEHOLD THE MODERN RIFLED SLUG

 

rifledslug1.jpg

rifledslug3.jpg

Image host

 

Hey look, these slugs have rifling on them! It's almost like they were designed specifically for smoothbore barrels that would otherwise have no way to get the slug spinning!

 

Now in case even this is too much thinking for you to do, let me break it down even further

 

Rifled Barrel + Smooth Sabot Slug = Win, best performance at longer ranges

Rifled Barrel + Rifled slug = I'm not sure, I've never tried it ... can't imagine it would be great.

Smooth Barrel + Rifled Slug = Best option for smooth bore shotguns, as the rifling on the slug helps stabilize the slug

 

and now what you suggested

 

Smooth Barrel + Smooth SABOT Slug = Fail. No real way to get the round spinning, thus no real way to retain accuracy at any type of distance at all. You're spending 3x the price of rifled slugs for no improvement or a detrimental change in accuracy, not to mention less terminal ballistics due to little spin.

 

But why didn't you know all this, mr big hunter man? Hasn't all of your "one shot on kill" animal killing taught you anything about the design of the firearm you're shooting? Of course it hasn't.

 

That being said, sabots WILL provide better range and terminal ballistics if they are fired FROM A RIFLED BARREL as they are designed to be. Firing them from a SMOOTHBORE barrel will provide neither, which is what YOU told him to do, and are now defending like a fool.

 

Maybe you should learn what you are talking about and do some testing yourself before you start telling other people what to do.

 

edit: and I was just teasing him about his optic from what he has posted in another thread. I never said "HEY NIKO YOU NEED A 600 DOLLAR RED DOT TO HIT STUFF AT 50 YARDS. He came into the thread and said "I DUNNO WHY ANYONE WOULD EVER SPEND SO MUCH MONEY ON A SCOPE". Big difference.

 

edit2: I'm not telling anyone what to do with their guns. If you enjoy doing something, by all means, do it. But when someone makes a thread asking how to improve something, don't give advice that will only worsen the original posters problems. You're only spreading misinformation and not helping anyone. Carry on.

 

Serious Business.

 

The rifling on a rifled slug was meant to collapse/be shaved when being fired through a full-choke so as to avoid damage to a weapon. It looks really nice and pretty if you pull it from the case, but think how roughed up those "fins" get bouncing around a barrel and slamming into a choke tube, even an IC?

 

High-speed photography has proven that it does spin...some. However, this spinning is not going to stabalize the slug. What stabalizes a Foster slug is it's weight-foreward design. It is more like a shuttle-cock than a rifle projectile.

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texan I've ever talked to hates illegal immigrants

 

I think they have a season for them to. ;)

 

If deer in such a problem where you live then do your part to control the population. Shelters here will take the meat if you don't want it. We donate a deer every year to the local shelter. Remember deer and other wildlive are here for a reason. We may not always know what the reason is. but if you (we) don't control the population, There will be more deer/car hits, more deer will be eating your garden, Etc.

 

Just sometime to think about.

 

Novaking

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Please to whoever can, post pictures of groupings and also post what kind of slug at what distance.

 

-Thanks for all the help i have already received from everyone, i appreciate it greatly. :)

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Please to whoever can, post pictures of groupings and also post what kind of slug at what distance.

 

-Thanks for all the help i have already received from everyone, i appreciate it greatly. :)

 

This won't help you, every shotgun is different.

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This won't help you, every shotgun is different.

 

I suppose so. Wasn't thinking about that. :rolleyes:

 

Let's narrow this down. Anybody with a SuperNova Tactical, tell me what slugs you have had luck with. I'm just looking for any useful information i can scrounge up.

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I suppose so. Wasn't thinking about that. :rolleyes:

 

Let's narrow this down. Anybody with a SuperNova Tactical, tell me what slugs you have had luck with. I'm just looking for any useful information i can scrounge up.

 

 

Okay, we have gone from:

 

"Anyone in a relationship, tell me what your partner likes"

 

to:

 

"Any guy in a relationship with a girl, tell me what she likes."

 

See what I mean? YOU need to shoot YOUR shotgun.

 

Brenneke Black Magic

Remington Slugger

Winchester Power Point

Federal Tru Ball

 

These are a good starting place.

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Thanks Unob for the Recommendations. I realize they may not work, but you have to start somewhere! I would be shocked if none of those gets the job done.

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Thanks Unob for the Recommendations. I realize they may not work, but you have to start somewhere! I would be shocked if none of those gets the job done.

 

 

Happy to help, FYI, Winchester PP's seem a HAIR more accurate, but remington sluggers seem to leave less lead in my barrel.

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Offhand today I shot a 4-shot group that was probably less than 1" CTC at 25 yards using an IC Trulock choke, Slugger Slugs, and my M4 using open sights. Smoothbore slug guns CAN be accurate. You just have to find a combo that it likes.

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