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About fenrock

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    Junior Member
  • Birthday 03/28/1965
  1. To: TIMB99, SgtCathy, tucker301, HOGNUTZ, Rob72, Duggan and agm65ccip, I just logged into the site and saw the seven reply's to my initial post and first off; I appreciate your candid responses and hard earned sage advice... Rgr rgr and copy all regarding the fit and adjustments to the gun or my personal adaptation to the Vinci. Again, your posts are most welcomed and will be put into practice. I found another thread posted today regarding this very topic... I think this shooter is experiencing some of the same issues as well, I hope the best works out for him and I will further post my results after my fitting. Wish me luck! To TIMB99: Methinks I AM "peeking" to get a "figure 8" with both beads... I also shoot a "P" and "B" guns on Skeet and Sporting Clays. Well done assessment and Cheers! Warm regards and safe shooting to you all. Respectfully, FENROCK
  2. I posted about four weeks ago (To my VINCI brothers and Sisters...) about my initial shooting experience and now want to add two hunting experiences with a new out of the box Black Vinci 12 Ga. This is a personal observation and not an indictment of quality of craftsmanship or quality of any products. If you care to read further this is what happened. 1. 1. Patterned gun, all shot placements were center high ~8 inches (give or take an inch either way), all chokes. 2. Refitted the gun shims to maximize the cast (off) and drop. 3. Patterned again – test results nearly the same. 4. Sent down range ~400+ rounds to “break-in” and gain feel and handling of Vinci. 5. Five Stand results (IC Tube and Mod Tube) = Horrible! a. LtoR = not good. b. RtoL = not good. c. Overhead = ~50% success d. Out and away = ~90% success e. Rabbits = ~40% success f. Springing Teal = 100% success 6. Skeet results (C Tube) = 90.6% after three rounds. See below! a. Round 1: 22/25 = 88% b. Round 2: 24/25 = 96% c. Round 3: 22/25 = 88% d. Total: 68/75 = 90.6% - I can live w/this using a NIB field grade gun. 7. 1st trip to South Dakota (The Land of Milk and Honey). Trouble from the start w/LtoR crossers (high and low) and vice-versa, at this time I am wondering if something is wrong w/the gun, me, moon phases, ocean tidal currents – something! 8. Next push - BOOM! Straight out and away bird in front “Money-shot”! 9. Another straight out and away bird – BOOM! “Down goes Frasier”! 10. Later in the morning the trouble starts again on simple shots and I am having a very hard time connecting with simple flushing and flying Pheasants. I tried using other guns and noticed big improvements i.e. straight shooting = dead birds. 11. Four days of this trouble makes for a long trip. Don’t feel bad yet I managed to shoot my share, it just took me longer! 12. Two weeks later after leaving the Land of Milk and Honey with full bag limits, I have many things to ponder and work on. 13. Repeat lines 7 -12 except change South Dakota and replace w/Minnesota (last week). Further, replace gun changes (Vinci) w/Benelli SBE I 12 ga, Ruger Red Label O/U 12 ga, and Benelli Super M1-90/20 ga. 14. All results the same as before in SD – something is either wrong w/me, the Vinci or is it a fitting problem period! Finally, after a bit of soul searching, gun cleaning, examining, and one more fitting session, I broke down and called Benelli Customer Service for some sage gun advice. Here’s the bottom line, I was told to either pattern the gun again, change the shims again or aim different? Hmmm, I asked what do you mean by aim different? Note: This is after I advised the service department agent of my pattern testing results. She (Benelli service agent) replied that “I should “float” (i.e. aim under and in front depending on bird position) the bird vice covering it, b/c you know all European made shotguns are designed to pattern high and you should “float” the target”. At this point my mind was racing and my throat went dry… I shelled out $1,500 big ones (w/taxes) for this revolutionary lightweight injection molded piece of plastic, 6.8 lb, modular designed, work of field grade gun art and the Benelli service agent tells me to aim freaking low? (I was incredulous and thought – REALLY? Are you serious)? I took a nice deep breath, calmed down a bit and asked about the POI being so high after adjusting the drop to the lowest position. Oh, she says that the Benelli engineers designed all their guns that way or something to that effect. At this point, I said to myself “jeezuz I can only hope this conversation is being recorded for quality assurance purposes”. Now you could have heard a pin drop! Again, I took a nice deep breath and calmly asked if she was aware of any other Benelli customers having this type of problem (w/the Vinci) and I was advised this was a “first heard” for her. Now I am thinking to myself “hmmm, this is really a first heard”? I asked if she or her colleagues have ever visited the Benelli USA Forum (blog) site or for that fact any of the other Forum (Shotgunworld.com to name one) sites with a large Benelli presence to learn about or read up on customer comments regarding their gunning experiences? She says Nope! I pointed out and advised this is becoming sort of a developing i.e. almost common problem set with the Vinci and owners are posting comments and threads about this issue more and more regularly. Again, she says Nope! First Heard! I wanted to raise the BS flag but I let it go and thanked her for her time and attention. Summary: At this time I have had no further cycling problems, no unexplained mechanical hic-ups that need mentioning. To date, I have close to ~750-800 rounds down range and will shoot one more time at the 5 Stand and SC’s course to test any remaining theory’s and make one final professional adjustment. I am making an appointment to see a gun fitting expert and see if something can be worked out w/this gun. I haven’t sounded as if I like this gun, quite the opposite – this sleek, dynamic Italian temptress is a brilliant piece of machinery, shoulders well and she really does feel great! I just cannot shoot the damn thing to save my life – or – for that fact kill birds when the gun goes boom. Oh, I almost forgot about the safety button position (new placement is forward of trigger area like R1), had I only known what monumental ass pain the new safety placement would have caused me I guarantee one thing for sure I would have thought through even more carefully before I bought this gun – period! This is besides the high POI issue. Again, my own opinion! However; if anybody here knows the name or is a friend of the Benelli Engineer who designed the trigger group – please tell them SHAME on them! Seriously, I am not looking to start a North Korean style ruckus or bend anyone’s feelings over their beloved Benelli’s, I have three other “flat shooting” Benelli’s of my own. For what it’s worth, I would appreciate if a well-seasoned Benelli moderator, a Benelli design engineer, or certified Benelli service technician would kindly set me straight regarding my statements above. This is in regards to the high POI design issue and if I am out of line and missing something. Again, if you are a subject matter expert I am ALL ears and could use the advice, because as it sits, sooner rather than later this Vinci will be traded-in for something else that can shoot flat and doesn’t need to be “FLOATED”. I sincerely appreciate all of your time and wish you all safe gunning. Kind regards and keep shooting. FENROCK
  3. To my VINCI brothers and Sisters... Weekend course of action round up: Thursday started with the pattern board and all of Ms. Vinci’s chokes. Due to the location of the pattern board the largest shell I am allowed to use is 7 ½’s b/c of restrictions on lead and carry of shot over the course. So here’s what happened. I stopped by Lowes and purchased some large moving boxes for the pattern board and cut them up accordingly. Each choke rx’d two shots of 7 ½, 1 1/8 oz, 2 ¾, Remington Gun Club shells on the pattern board. I processed all five chokes and made notes on the bottom of the cardboard for future reference. One thing was clear – each pattern and choke had a similar shot placement on the cardboard and no real wide open holes or large gaps “blank spots” in the shot pattern. This was good news to me b/c Benelli and Beretta have had issues in the past w/their chokes not patterning all that great. The patterns were all center high of the “dot” in the center of the cardboard. This told me I was consistent w/my bead placement when I pulled the trigger and two the gun was shooting in the same place each time. BTW, I am not a gunsmith or a fitting expert, however; I have been fitted a number of times and I know sorta where the mid and end bead need to be when looking down a rib on a barrel. My druthers would have the shot pattern be a tad more centered when either a clay or a live bird is in front of me I can swing through and bang. Well, onto the 5 stand was next on my agenda and since I thought I knew where the gun was shooting this should go pretty well, again so I thought. Umm, it didn’t go so well and let’s just say I have room for improvement on out and away right to left crossing targets among others. Perhaps a slight adjustment might be in order? Well, when I was cleaning Ms. Vinci I thought about the cast and drop and decided to change the shims around and see what that looked like. After fiddling around for a half hour I finally settled on a different shim I liked and put the gun away. I drove Friday morning to the Skeet range to see how or if the adjustments would make any difference. I shot three rounds and the scores as follows. Round 1: 22/25 = 88% Round 2: 24/25 = 96% Round 3: 22/25 = 88% Total: 68/75 = 90.6% The scores were a little weird but I’ll take them, I don’t have a Skeet tube and used the Cylinder choke, however; fwiw, I was on stand 8 during round number two and one of the other shooters managed to remind me that I was “clean” up until my next shot on the high tower… I missed! However; I recovered on low eight and finished out w/a 24. I can safely assume the adjustment worked out a little better than expected and I will pattern the gun again to mark any differences in shot placement. No cycling problems at all and no other hic-ups that I could mention to date. I have approximately 400 rounds down range and will try one more time at the 5 stand and SC’s course to test my luck and adjustment. All the best and keep shooting. Fenrock
  4. I have finally purchased a new Benelli VINCI this past weekend (Oct ’10) and what my experience was like. This is only a personal review and no way reflects what I have read or talked to other members who own Benelli’s. Let me start by saying I have four Benelli’s and for the record, I have been hunting with shotguns for over 35 years FWIW… My first shotgun was a Mossberg (Coast-to-Coast) 20 ga pump the followed by the venerable Remington 870 12ga Wingmaster, Ithaca MAG 10, and finally my first H&K Benelli SBE 12 ga, followed by a 20 ga. Montefeltro, M1 Super 90 20 ga, Multiple Beretta 682 Sporter’s, one Perazzi and then my newest addition to the Pheasant family a Benelli VINCI. I mostly shoot pheasant and any grouse that happen to be close including a few Hungarian Partridge during the season. I purchased the VINCI at a local gun store. Asthetics are in each shooter’s eye and opinions range far and wide regarding the VINCI’s looks. Upon first feel the VINCI shouldered nicely and “fit” very well (I shoot with both eyes open) and includes four shims, the fit and finish is very good, along with the balance and swing feel. I place a high amount of value on fit and feel (F&F) when trying out a gun – plus I do a fair amount of 5-Stand (5S), Skeet (SK) and Sporting Clays (SC) with different sporting guns and that’s where the feel part comes from. Side note: Regarding F&F I believe the VINCI is remarkable with respect to feel. I noted above that I shoot a fair amount of 5S, SK and SC’s during the year (especially late summer and fall) and the feel (in this case - sound) is unbelievable. I don’t hear a thing!!!! I own one H&K SBE 12 gauge and one M1 S90 20 gauge. I have shot both during SK rounds, I can hear the click of the hammer, report, rx’r group slide back – eject- p/u another round and close the rx’r and lock into place for the next round to be released. To me this is annoying and actually very distracting b/c another “rock” is on the way and deserves your undivided attention to turn it into dust. With the VINCI = NOTHING, nada thing, zero, zilch, squadoosh, this Italian mistress is ultra quiet. Hence the inline design, no more spring mechanisms in the stock like the other Benelli’s… On Saturday 09OCT10 I picked up my VINCI and drove straight home to have a look and check out the insides some more to ensure the gun was properly (lightly) lubed and clean. What follows are only my humble first impressions. Modular gun design is a huge marketing strategy of Benelli and the ease in breakdown and assembly. BTW, take a look at the M1 rifle – notice any similarities in design i.e. barrel and receiver group? Methinks Benelli had this little beauty on the design table a long time ago and used the M1 as a test vehicle – again MHO only. Assembly and Disassembly: The first time I assembled the gun (actually Gun Store Gunsmith did it) it was a major PITA (pain in the arse) including disassembly. The second time was a bit easier, however; you can trust me in saying the VINCI takes a lot of grit and strength to assemble the barrel and stock combo and then attach the receiver assembly while trying to push buttons and twist locking mechanisms. For the record, I have taken the gun apart and put together about ~ten plus times and it gets a easier and easier each time you do it. If you see the assembly challenge on YouTube and think this is easy it’s not, at least the first few times you try. Benelli didn’t advertise this little challenge. Anyway, onto the carrying case description. Benelli VINCI Carrying Case: The gray plastic case comes with three major component compartments. First component is the receiver/barrel storage area, the 2nd is the stock area and trigger group assembly that also includes the forearm and magazine tube compartment. The custom plastic case is a serious disappointment. The advertisement made it out to be more than it is, however; in the context of my observations it will carry your gun, parts, and accessories the case can be locked with two small padlocks (not included). If you are looking for a secure long haul (Airport) quality gun case IMO this is not it! Take a look at Americase or something like that. Field usage (Ranges and actual field use): This gun is very quick to take down if you have any issues (see above), the gun will turn into two or three pieces in about ten seconds. The reason I know this is b/c I had a major issue during a F5 outing at my local club on Sunday and found out the hard way. The entire trigger group can be separated and pulled apart in less than 15 seconds including shell tube, thinking about separating the receiver “guts” group from the barrel, no problem here either. Matter of fact it might be too easy and someone diddling might get themselves into a bit of trouble in they are not careful. Here comes one of the icky parts; I was shooting 5S and I picked up the forth clay, it was coming fast from left to right out and away (this one is hard for me) – click, nothing! I asked the trapper to send another clay and I called for the clay and click, nothing! I opened the rx’r and looked inside and a live round was in the barrel ready for discharge. I pointed the barrel down range and – click, nothing! Now what do I do? I asked permission and field stripped the gun (about 10 seconds no sweat). However; I still have an issue w/a live round stuck in the gun, after a bit of hassle I got the round out and assembled the gun (under 15 seconds). Sooo, back to the range and start again on the “breaking in period” of the gun. Bottom line is I had one fail to fire (FTF) and three stove-pipes. So far I’m not happy, however; the SC’s range is only a two minute drive away in the golf cart. Off we go..... *** For reference I did cycle two boxes of heavy loads as per the instructions for breaking in the gun with another ~125 or so of clays loads on Sunday. One other item I noticed was the safety is in front of the trigger assembly and it tends to be a bit of a struggle to push it from safe to fire. I use shooting gloves and this might have contributed to the problem, however; if this is a Pheasant Gun (upland game gun) I would tend to believe that most hunters will have moderate to heavy gloves on while hunting. I have a feeling this will be a work in progress and will update the forum after I get back from South Dakota in November. This leads me to the shell magazine and the stated capacity in the brochure, the tube is supposed to hold either three 2 ¾” shells or two 3” shells. For me and I am still looking to find a solution to this issue, however; I could only load two 2 ¾” shells with one in the receiver. Recoil pad is too loose for my taste, however; it felt ok. Oh yea, the red bar front site is another issue I had on the first day – it’s gone! The front site slipped out of the metal holder and is lost – again a bit of a disappointment in my book. Also, I was placing the gun in my traveling gun case and noticed a wrinkle in one of the rubber gaskets on the stock, I pushed it back into the stock, however; I still see a bit of a bulge in the rubber that came unglued (?) from the rear left side of the stock. I was going to shoot SK and SC’s during the entire month of October to condition myself to the gun and get my “game eye’s” on. Except I am on my way to the gun store today to turn in my new VINCI and send it back to customer service and have them look it over. Personal comments: I know why Benelli tested this gun in Argentina b/c it works! The little nit-picky things that happened to me are trivial in the overall scheme of things, however; I am disappointed in the quality of materials used in this particular VINCI. I am convinced this gun was manufactured during the World Cup games and some Italian Craftsman wasn’t paying attention and stared at the darn t.v. more than my gun. Again, my heart still belongs to my second favorite Italian Mistress (First place goes to Ms. Perazzi) and I have faith that Benelli will handle this issue with class and dignity as is expected. Perhaps my expectations were too high after seeing the online Benelli VINCI advertisement with the SUPER secret agent trying to save the scantily clad hot-chick carrying the VINCI gun case from the evil Mr. Nogood – heck who knows what I was thinking… ;^) Thanks in advance for your eyes and ears regarding my new Italian Princess… BTW, don’t think I’m pissed at Benelli, quite the opposite, I have already talked to the Service Dept and was advised to get it in quick and they will handle this immediately and if this looks familiar it should I posted this over on the SGW forum. Cheers and good gunning!
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