marc63
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Posts posted by marc63
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A titanium tube that doesn't match the factory m4 finish? Titanium or steel, I really doubt your gonna notice much of a weight difference on the gun and your probably not gonna put the gun through the abuse to need something as strong as titanium.
I happen to have one of Kip's Ti tubes, and it matches the original finish on my M4 EXACTLY. Just sayin...
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Here are a couple size options for you.
The OP's inquiry is about the release not the charging handle.
Here's the link to the release he inquired about;
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I asked Kip about the black charging handle and was told that since you cannot parkerize or anodize titanium it would require some other method like a coating. When he attempted to source this out, he was told it would add something like $20 to the price of each one. He was looking for a better/cheaper solution. This is the last I heard on the subject.
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FNH USA has pretty much set the bar. They import their FNH w/ 4 rd tubes, then trash them in favor of 6 and 8 rd tubes prior to sale. They are semi-auto w/ pg stocks, so they MAY NOT have FL tubes for importation under 922R. Once here they may be upgraded.
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My understanding is 922R applied to shotguns from 1990-1994 defining sporting purpose, AW's and shotguns during the ban, and all contenders for importation compliance. Until the sunset on the AWB only shotguns could be altered within limits, not to encroach on AWB parameters since they had overlapping restrictions, after the AWB sunset, ALL contenders could be upgraded once state-side. There was no sunset on 922R so importation guidelines still apply. Check the FNH shotgun. It HAS to be imported w/ a 5 rd mag tube, once here FNH USA dumps the short one and replaces it w/ either a 6 or 8 rd tube depending on what configuration it will be sold as. This is legal, like they say, 922R still applies, AWB sunset allows them to be upgraded once here. Biden hates the loopholes BTW. And has plans found in H.R. 1022 to close that loophole down... just an FYI. The sale or transfer of the tubes may become illegal, as well as simple installation w/o manufacturer's permits for LEO only. Yes that bill is a long shot, but they tried to pull the trigger on it in 2007. New administration, elevated risk... Read up on H.R. 1022 for future legislative intent.
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Check with the guy on Gunbroker.com that sells the full length Titanium magazine tubes... he's got 'em!! He supplies our springs with his own design (in cooperation with W.C. Wolf Co... world renowned for their gun-springs) which are direct replacements for the Benelli M4 spring when using FL tubes. I have 3 more (springs) on order from him. He custom orders them in bulk from Wolff and according to him they are made to fill the void where others supply OEM length upgrades with full length tubes, his are +5" in length, from spring stock that is 15% stronger, and is MUCH less susceptible to taking a set. He currently supplies them with his titanium tubes only, until he gets his next production shipment. And yes he WILL sell them seperately. They are double wound at each end just like OEM, and have the exact same O.D. Nice thing about them vs OEM is they don't kink and get bent out of shape nearly as easy as the factory ones. Wolff springs are KNOWN to run about 3 times the cost of OEM, but they are worth it. He charges $12 for ea. spring, plus $5 priority mail to deliver. We're getting 3 for $41 to our door.
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I know ATI. They're not THAT expensive. Didn't see any M4 tubes, or info on melonite using their search engine. Ion bonding is like electroless process. Fairly prevalent. Not too costly. Nitriding is cool too, but like No F-Bdy Bs said, most are looking for tactical durable finish. Exotic plating might not be needed on a tube, especially when starting with titanium or aluminum. One thing I do disagree with mentioned earlier, is that titanium offers no advantage over aluminum, and that the tube is not a stressed member. The mass of 7 rounds, spring, follower, keeper, handguards, barrel, pistons/piston body, and impulse of load constriction at choke ALL impart dramatic tensile strain on the magazine tube during the moment of recoil, since the magazine tube is all that keeps them from flying out/off the front of when fired. Don't believe me? Try shooting it without the nut installed. Instant ammo dump and barrel clanking off the deck will result, followed by "boing" of spring flopping out the tube, and good luck finding the snap-ring spring retainer. Seen it happen:eek:. Not sure how he managed to chamber a round without the barrel slipping out of reach of the bolt lugs, but when it cut loose the bolt unlocked WAY too soon and the shell split the brass and hull all the way into the rim. Clearly aluminum can do the job, but where Benelli uses it (aluminum tubes on the SBE and M1) the tubes are MUCH thicker walled, and heat treated after the lips are rolled and threads are cut. There's probably a reason the Joint services did not want to go down that road again, especially on the MUCH thinner tube walls of the M4. Seems to me titanium is the only "sane" alternative to steel for the M4's mag tube.
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Tell the guy at a 3 gun match in Houston who had 4 rds stuck on the wrong side of a dent how adequate aluminum is. Or that it's "just a simple $3 tube ". No hype, simple physics.
Tell an active duty field armorer who upgrades rapid insertion team M4s for covert ops that steel is preferable to titanium. It won't rust, and never succumbs to electrolysis (like aluminum). If ALL 85lbs of gear and battle dress could weigh 1/2 as much... like titanium vs steel, each team would be twice as mobile. Its a good alternative with zero drawbacks, at a price in line with steel. No gouging, no hype, no lie.
If all you were paying for was $3 of material wouldn't it cost $3?? Honed I.D. Titanium 3AL-2.5V alloy that has been tempered, annealed and normalized, then O.D. ground, costs $3 per inch. That's nearly $60 before it's turned down, threaded, stamped with proof marks, sandblasted, cleaned, degreasd, masked and painted, fired in an oven, packed and shipped. That doesn't even count marketing and CNC overhead or labor. Sounds to me like every tube mentioned is worth just about what they are selling for. Except the OEM steel tube (Benelli Part) that is going for $700 on Gunbroker. Now THAT is hype.
My DMW aluminum one dented on a baricade while going prone, it had never happened w/ steel.
Had a local gunsmith iron out the dent and it happened AGAIN. Well, three of us bought the Titanium Benelli M4 shotgun full length tube from Gunbroker.com, (2 in "Cerakote "DG" finish that matches OEM perfectly, 1 in the "Desert Tan" and one beautiful polished one, and we are all extremely happy with them). He also sells titanium bolt handles on a limited basis, but we can't get more from him until January because he is focusing on mag tubes due to H.R. 1022 and the new administration in D.C. Honestly we only bought one of the ti tubes at first, (Bob was our guinea-pig), and WOW!! They are incredible in every aspect. Not only was it impervious to denting, the barricade didn't even mar the Cerakote (ceramic backbone hi-temp coating) That's when we sprang for two more complete w/ W.C. Wolff springs and bolt handles (the latter cost $39 each, non-rotating hollow knurled knob-bodies that were phenominal in their own right). Trust me, if it were just a tube you could use PVC or card-board. We spent more $$ installing and REPAIRING the aluminum ones than we'll ever spend on the titanium ones. No, these titanium tubes are tough, beautiful, supremely finished, light weight and maintenance free. Install it and forget it!. No need to baby it either.
Would buy again in a heart-beat. Too bad he does not seem to be selling them any more, maybe took a break for the holidays unless I searched wrong. I'll check my emails and post it if anyone else is interested and can't track him down on Gunbroker.com. We purchased our last one from him in October '08 and from what we heard, he was just getting into civilian supply (he mainly caters to military) so he may or may not be pre-disposed. Seems certain he'll be making them as long as they are legal.
And the wait begins..................
in Benelli
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FYI- My cousin ordered a carriercomp shorty tube about a month ago and he got it right away. Apparantly there is not a wait on those, just the 7 round tubes.