Uncle Russ

I have seen bad sporting goods reps and I have seen awful people behind the counters at Dicks, Bass Pro, Cabelas, and other emporiums. In the first case, which is relatively rare, the person just had an attitude because he was a rep and you - well, weren't. In the latter case, most of these people not only don;t know what they are talking about, but don't know they don't know, which is worse yet. This is true not only of gun counters but fishing and all the other sports specialties. You out this guy in a corner in front of a whole bunch of customers, basically without warning. Were you trying to show how much you know, or how little he did? Well, you got your wish - neither of you knew much. As for the many comments about "for $1500 I should get a gun that (never breaks, never needs cleaning, never - fill in the blank). How 'bout $5,000-$10,000 for a Perazzi or Dakota? How 'bout $20,000 and up for an H&H, Purdey, or Boss? When their reps get a question like this they normally ask when the last time the gun was cleaned and how it was cleaned, because the truth is that 50% of all gun problems are caused by guns not being cleaned, or not being cleaned properly. My M1/Super 90 sometimes fails to close the bolt all the way on the second or third shot. Turns out it needs to be got after with a stainless steel brush at the chamber to clean out the residue left by plastic shells (after several hundred rounds). I can simply close the bolt all the way to fix it in the field. But then it needs CLEANING! Who told me about this little trick? A Benelli customer service rep on the phone, and my local gunsmith - and it's not limited to Benellis, either. I did what they said. Now I don't have the problem. Uncle Russ

Thanks much for this information. Now I don't feel silly because I strip my R1 down to this level regularly. Uncle Russ

In my experience most of such problems have to do with the fit of the gun to the shooter. If the provided shims don't work very often a good gunsmith, especially one familiar with fitting SxS guns, can machine a shim for you that'll give you the proper drop. Uncle Russ

I guess I'm confused - the R1 does have a pistol grip, although maybe not as deep as some designs. Uncle Russ

Spot-on, BobbyJ. I have an M1 Super 90 in left-hand and it's the ONLY long gun that I've ever owned in left hand (except the flintlock I built from scratch for myself). Having always before shot right-handed guns, I got used to doing that. Having the M1 is - well, better, for me. Much more "natural". Now I have the R1 in a right-hand version beccause I was told it'd be a long time before they make one. But I was also told that it'd be a while before they did the .308 in a Comfortech stock and that happened the next year, so maybe there's hope yet. The R1 is the "softest" shooting .308 I've ever had. That alone leads to more accuracy - when you know you won't get "thumped" you won't flinch - well, not as much anyway. On the other hand, the .308 is not a hard-recoil round (well, not like a 30-06) and that helps, too. BTW, I have the one of the prettiest pieces of wood on my R1's stock that I've seen, but admittedly it would produce less felt recoil if I had the Comfortech. As for accuracy, the old-time wisdom is that the bolt-action provides less violent and a more straight-line movement from the magazine to the chamber, and the loading motion can be controlled even more with smooth operation of the bolt. True enough. There was also the idea that you couldn't make an auto action to a close tolerances as you could do with a bolt action, because the relatively violent movement involved in the auto loading sequence would jam a gun with bolt-action tolerances. In some guns that may have been true. But modern autos are built to much closer tolerances in the chamber areas, just like bolt-actions, and that leads to increased accuracy. BTW, I have seen BAR's that would easily hold 1moa, and yet even my own R1 would go silly at times, but that had nothing to do with the rifle in either case - it had to do with finding the right ammunition for that particular gun. Unless you put the time in - and the investment in ammo cost - to do the work at the range to find the best round for your individual rifle, you'll never get the best accuracy it can produce. And no, that doesn't mean you have to go to handloading. It just means patience. As I said on another thread, I can produce 3/4" 5-shot groups with my R1 just about any time I shoot. But I can also do the same thing with my .308 99A lever-gun. But the two guns use quite different ammo to get there (the R1 likes Hornady 150gr SST's, and the 99A likes 168gr Winchester Ballistic Silver Tips, although I'm currently messing with Hornady 165gr HPBT rounds because the Winchester rounds have doubled in price in the past year). One is an auto, one is a kind of bolt gun. In my opinion, the old myths are just about dead. In lieu of the Comfortech stock, if you want to reduce felt recoil, consider a special-purpose recoil pad as well as a special-purpose cheek rest. Or even, having your stock fitted to your special measurements. Uncle Russ

Have had no problem at all. I have, however, switched to a DeadNutz base and ring system which ensures a basically solid mount. However, there was just an article in NRA magazine about the effects of cleaning a gun, and it was interesting for me because I experienced much the same differences. After cleaning my R1's barrel with a Bore Snake, I'll be off 1/4 to 1/2" on the next first, cold barrel shot. After that first shot I'm right back on zero. After a full takedown cleaning, I'll be off by maybe 1" on the first cold-barrel shot. Incidentally, in both cases this first shot will be high. But after that first shot, I'm right back to zero. So, just before hunting season, I'll finish my last range session with a couple "fouling" rounds, making sure they are spot-on, and then leave it till after hunting is done. This is not a unique problem with just the R1 - it's true of every gun, whether rifle, pistol, or revolver. Uncle Russ

I'm going to disagree with some of what was said above about the out-of-the-box accuracy of the R1. I have an R1 with a beautiful wood stock, in .308. I have shot around 500 rounds through it in the two years I've had it, have taken two deer with it, and have learned the following: 1) This particular gun is perfectly capable of 3/4" - yes, that's three-quarter-inch (i.e., sub MOA) with Hornady SST 150gr factory loads. It is capable of 1" groups with Winchester Ballistic Silvertip 168gr factory loads. BTW, that's 5 round groups, similar to what the gun magazines all use in their tests. 2) Why 500 rounds? Because I worked my way through a number of boxes of different brands of ammo, in various bullet weights and styles (for example, ballistic tips vs hollow-points, soft-points, etc). None shot more than 2" groups, but obviously some were better than others. This, in fact, is true of every factory or custom rifle - any particular gun will "like" a particular load better than others. I guess the point is that you have to spend the time on the range to find out what this gun is capable of. That's true of every gun I've ever owned, whether it be the R1, my 40yr-old 99A Saddle gun (also in .308, which is a tackhammer with the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip 168gr and also, suprisingly, equally accurate with the Hornady SST 165gr factory ammo). 3) Similarly, you have to figure out what you are capable of with any gun. Some guns will be absolute treasures for you, but others less so. I'm sure my R1 is capable of even better groups but quite frankly I am not, and for me, it wouldn't make any difference what gun it was, I can't do better than that. Believe me, I've tried. However, I have been able to shoot a two-shot group of 1/4" - that is, one raggedy hole made with two bullets touching in it. 4) It's also important to shoot cold-barrel groups and hot barrel groups, and to clean the gun and re-run the group, or just to shoot, say, 100rds without cleaning. You will get different results, and that's kind of the whole point - if you change the parameters of the test, you have to repeat them to make any judgement about any differences that might show up. In other words, based on actual experience and with the targets to prove it, I think making a general statement that the R1, as a "h8nting rifle", cannot be expected to produce very accurate groups (as was quoted by Barracuda, above) is just incorrect. I had a very experienced international shooter and hunter tell me the same thing about my 99A many years ago, until I brought my 7/8" target back from the frames (four holes in 3/4", one flyer) and he quieted down a bit and asked me what my load was. I showed him my 180gr handloads. I also showed him the target I had shot just before that with my 220gr handloads, also 7/8". He quieted down some more. (This was with a Redfield Widefield - wish I'd had the Leupold then that I have now). That's why the tests in many of the magazines list results for several different factory loads. Usually, one will be markedly more accurate than the others. Tecker123, I would have no hesitation about getting your R1 in 300wm. As for the difference between the R1 and a bolt-action gun, it's no different than the difference between any gas auto and any bolt gun. The R1 is as reliable as any gas auto can be, and I have found it to be as accurate as any bolt gun - and there are a lot of people who will say that no auto can ever be as accurate as a bolt action. For a comparison I have my 99A, which is a lever gun and is, with its rotary chamber, essentially equal to a bolt action. In my experience, that's just not so, but then, that's just me, and my own R1. - hope that helps. Uncle Russ

I shoot a .308 R1 and a 40yr-old 99A saddle model, also in .308. Obivosly the gas auto produces less felt recoil, which is why I got it after my left shoulder (I'm a lefty) went bad. Now that the shoulder is 90% recovered I still find the R1 more comfortable to shoot. But as for the BAR, I think they are quite close in felt recoil. At some point it's subjective - you have to get both on the range and shoot each alternately to make that judgement. I also find .308 to be as much shell as I want to mess with. I know all the arguments for all the other .30cal versions (especially 30-06) and I've found the .308 to be just about all I want. I have a good friend who, as he's gotten older, has become increasingly sensitive to felt recoil and has settled on the .243 as his current caliber of choice. However there's a lot of opinions about whether this is enough caliber for deer, let alone bigger stuff, although it's been pretty well proven on antelope. Actually, it depends also on which bullet you choose and what factory load you choose as well. Personally I'd stay with .308 and if you want to reduce the felt recoil I might consider handloads, or do a bit of research to find a "ligher" load. Uncle Russ

Would get the Vinci. And I won't use anything more than 3" regardless of which gun (bad shoulder). But having actually messed with the Vinci a bit, I find that the claims for between-the-hands balance and "natural" pointing are true, at least for me. It will replace my left-handed M1 Super 90 as soon as they release a left-hand version. Uncle Russ

Shooting an M1-Super 90 on ducks generally w/mod choke. Using Kent Fasteel and the Estate steel (now owned by Federal). Also using Winchester grey-box steel. All 3", because that's the max for this model. Uncle Russ

The guides at the game farm we frequent use them to clean up cripples (ducks) so they don't fly off the farm. Thery seem quite effective. There are now some versions that do work with Black Cloud and some of the other exotics. But they take some getting used to. They throw a quite tight pattern and a somewhat unforgiving in that respect - either you're on, or you're not. Uncle Russ