timb99
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Posts posted by timb99
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Shotguns R Us,
If you are looking for a good quality semi-auto for a low dollar price, go to gunbroker.com, and get a used Remington 1100 or 1187 and have a gunsmith give it a good cleaning and once-over when you get it.
You can get one for about $350 or $400.
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"police forces use Remington 870s & Mossberg 500s. what does that tell you??"
They also use Ithaca 37's and Winchester 1300's. What does THAT tell you? Tells me they do public bidding process and buy the one that gives them the best price...
MOST pump guns work fine.
Possibly the best one is the old Winchster Model 12, which hasn't been made for many years.
The 870 is a great gun, but so are the others mentioned above. Mossberg has great warranty service, plus they're easy to fix yoursalf.
A friend of mine abused hiw Mossberg 500 for about 25 years (he said he had never cleaned it, not even once), then, when I noticed his trigger group was hanging out of the receiver partially (gun still worked) he gave it to me. I cleaned if and repaired it (for about $100) and gave it back to him, in near-new condition.
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Hogwild,
Any respectable range that gives a darn about safety will have that rule. They're not being jerks, they're just following the normal and customary safety rules that most shooting ranges follow as a matter of course.
To do any different is unsafe at a shooting range.
Helps keep you from "forgetting" how many shells you have in the gun, and thinking you're empty when you're not.
Hundreds of thousands of trap rounds are shot year-round by people loading only one shell at a time.
I don't shoot at ranges that don't care about safety.
Go on back to your ABQ City range, shoot trap loading one shell at a time, and enjoy yourself.
The SBEII bolt stays open after the last shot, right? Just load the next shell in the ejection port and push the bolt release button when its your turn. Piece of cake. That's how I did it when I used to shoot an 1100 for trap, and its how my daughter still does with her 1100. No inconvenience at all.
Tim
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The only Nova I ever picked up felt really light to me, but I'm accustomed to heavy guns.
I see the specs say the Nova weighs 8 lb, and I don't consider that particularly light. I'd have guessed the Nova to be more like 7 lb.
Hmmm. My bad.
FYI, my target shooting guns weigh somewhere between 9 and 10 lb. Obviously, these guns are strictly for target shooting. That's way too heavy to lug around in the field.
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A few questions:
First, if you shoot better with your 870 than with your Condor, why change? The 870 is probably a better gun and probably has a better trigger than the Condor.
Second, what choke is in the 870, and what choke is in the Condor? Unless the Condor has somethign like a skeet choke in it, its probably not a choke problem. Modified is a good startingpoint for shooting trap.
Have you patterned your Condor? That is, at about 35 yards, where does the pattern shoot? If it shoots a significanly different point of impact than the 870, that's likely your problem.
Also, it may be a gun fit problem. An ill-fitting gun is one that doesn't shoot where you are looking.
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You cannot go wrong with a used Browning Citori.
You should be able to get one in that price range.
Excellent quality guns, and any gunsmith worth a darn knows how to fix them.
In the short run, the Stoeger O/U may look good, but it is not time tested like the Citori.
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Use blue if you ever want to get it apart again.
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In that price range, get a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500.
Simple as that.
Reliable, good quality guns.
You may never wear them out, and even if you do, every gunsmith in the USA has parts for them and knows how to fix them.
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Oh, and when you're shooting, foltow through!
That is, don't stop the gun when you pull the trigger. If you miss, follow the target as if you were going to shoot at it again.
If you break one, follow a chip down to the ground, as if you were going to shoot at the chip.
This wwill help keep you from lifting your head, which is a common problem.
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Where to start....
Well, step one, DO NOT try to shoot trap with a skeet choke. A modified choke is fine.
The shells you are using are fine for singles trap.
Gimmicks, Hi-Viz sights, other "stuff" won't make you a better shooter. You need practice...Start with what you have, and as you progress, you may find there are things that will help.
For now, concentrate on practicing and shooting a lot of targets to get better.
Here's a good tutorial on trap on the Remington website.
http://www.remington.com/pdfs/trap_fundamentals_2004.pdf
Read that and see what you think.
Do you know your eye dominance?
Are you shooting one eye open or both?
Mount the gun head up, eyes level.
The Nova is a field gun and is a pretty lightweight gun. Its probably set up to shoot pretty flat. Pattern it and see where it shoots. Do not try to pattern off-hand. It will tell you nothing. Mount the gun, and see what your sight picture looks like. Then, using that same sight picture, shoot the gun off a firm rest, at about 35 yards, and see where the pattern goes. Do this 5-6 imes to make sure you are seeing where the gun shoots, not where one particular shot went.
A good pattern to look for is one where the pattern is centered left-to-right, and a little more of the pattern is above the bead than below. 60/40 is a good general pattern percentage. Many, if not most, trap shooters shoot a much higher percentage than that, since trap targets are always rising. Helps to have a gun that shoots a little high in trap.
Foot position is important.
Gun insertion point (where you're pointing when the target is called for) is important.
Where your eyes are focused before you call for the target is important.
Head on the stock, firmly, and not picking your head up is important.
Both eyes on the target!!!! Don't lookk at the beads!!!!!
If you want to get good at trap, honestly, take some shooting lessons. You probably weren't good at hitting a baseball the first time you tried it. So many men believe they should be able to pick up a shotgun and be good with it without ever being taught how shoot.
And, at best, over the internet, I can only point you in the right direction. So much of these games require someone watching you to see what you're doing and how to correct the flaws.
FYI...the targets leave the house at 42 mph for American trap. About 65 for Olympic trap.
Try this, if your club wuill let you: Have them set the machine to throw straight-away's, without oscillation. Then stand on station 3 and shoot straight-away targets until you feel comfortable banging straight-aways.
Then, do the same thing, only shoot some from station 2, 3, and 4. Keep doing that until you are comfortable breaking most of the targets. Then, expand out to straight-aways from stations 1 through 5. You get the idea.
Once you're breaking targets consistently shooting just straight-aways, then try oscillating targets, but start again at station 3, and shoot a whole box from there.
Then, shoot a box from stations 2, 3, and 4.
This will help you get a start.
BTW, I help coach a youth trap team for the last 6 years, coached my daughter who is on her college trap shooting team, and I'm a pretty good shooter myself...lifetime average of about 95% over 5000 targets. In case you were wondering if I had any idea what I'm talking about.
Tim
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BTW, in order to make it cost effective, you need to buy in bulk. That means buying 5000 primers, 5000 wads, 8 lb of powder, or 500 lb of shot at a time.
And don't buy from stores like Cabela's. You'll get ripped for price.
You need to be selective, and buy at gun clubs or from online stores with good prices for large quanitities.
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It depends.
If you shoot A LOT, you can save money. As noted above, if you shoot occasionally, or if you just hunt, its not worth the cost of the reloader.
BUT, you need to enjoy doing it, and you need to want to spend your time at it to make it worthwhile.
As said above, you can use your own recipes for loads that are not commercially or commonly available.
Absolutely, positively, get a good reloading manual, like Lyman's, and read it cover to cover twice, before you load one shell.
Absolutely, positively, do not use any load that is not in a published powder manufacturer's table. That's asking for a blown-up barrel.
Absolutely, positively, get a good scale and actually weigh several powder charges before you load up a bunch of shells to make sure the bushing you choose is throwing the charge you want. The bushing charts are NOT ACCURATE!!!
I really like Remington hulls (STS, Nitro, and Gun Club), Hodgdon powders (I personally know Chris Hodgdon, and he's a great guy, and they have great products) and Downrange Wads (I also know Kevin Lewis of Downrange, another great guy, and a company with great products.)
For skeet and 16-yard trap, just about any brand of shot will do.
If you shoot handicap trap from beyond the 23-yard-line, I strongly recommend the good shot, like Remington magnum shot (magnum shot has more alloying antimony to make the shot harder, which tends to make patterns more dense.)
I use an old Hornady 366 progressive, and I really like it. I have several others. MEC 600 Jr.'s in both 28 gauge and .410. The MEC 9000G progressive is a great machine too.
Do it as a sub-hobby of your shooting hobby, and only if you enjoy doing it.
If not, don't waste your time...buy factory shells.
Your mileage may vary.
Tim
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Ummm, a shotgun barrel length less than, I think, 17" is illegal in the USA.
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No. In no uncertain terms. That barrel is scrap metal.
You're lucky the metal they use these days is improved over 20 years ago.
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Barrel length is a personal choice thing.
Also, it depends on whether you're talking a pump/semi-auto or a break action gun.
And, what you are shooting (trap, skeet, sporting clays.)
A semi-auto with a 26" barrel will be about the same length as a break-action gun with a 30" barrel, because of the receiver length.
The current prevailing wisdom is, longer is better.
I use an over/under with 32" barrels for trap shooting. And I use an over/under with 30" barrels for skeet and sporting clays.
My daughter's semi-auto trap gun has a 30" barrel, and the gun's overall length is longer than my 32" over/under.
Many trap shooters use single-barrel break action guns with 35" barrels.
Longer barrel gives you a longer sight plane, and adds some weight out front that may tend to smooth out your swing.
Other things to consider; if you're a big person, a longer barrel may be fine, but that same barrel might not work well for someone who is 5'-5" tall and weighs 125 lb.
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If its under warranty, make sure you really want to do this. I'm guessing it would void the warranty if you have someone do it.
Did you contact Benelli and ask them if they would do this? Since it might be a product liability issue, they may not want to do this.
Your member name implies you may be int he Kansas City area. True?
If that is true, take a look at thie website:
http://www.gunsmithingonly.com
Excellent gunsmith in the Mission area, near where the Mission Mall used to be.
Tim
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splashtx,
Good insight. What the kid wants is important.
I know the first gun I got for my daughter didn't work out for either of us.
Luckily, I listened a little more on the second gun.
The main reason I'd recommend against a Mossberg Silver Reserve is the triggers are very, very heavy and have a long pull before breaking over (kinda like my Stoeger Condor.) Not such a big deal for hunting, but for target shooting, 3.5 to 4 lb trigger pull is preferred. The Mossbergs are around 8-10 lb triggger pull.
Tim
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I have a bunch of Carlson's chokes and I think they pattern just fine.
Although, I doubt you'll really find a huge difference between your Benelli chokes and the Carlson's chokes as far as pattern quality.
I've also sent two barrel sets to Carlson's to have them machined for choke tubes, my Zoli over/under and my daughter's 1100 barrel, and both have come back perfectly machined and for a reasonable cost.
I highly recommend their products and services.
Tim
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Contrary to popular belief...a .410 is an expert's gun, not a kid's gun. Very little margin for error.
But you can shoot it all day, since there's so little recoil.
For skeet, I like the 28 gauge best.
Either one though, is expensive to shoot unless you reload.
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If you're looking for a good quality O/U at a reasonable cost for your son, may I suggest a used Browning Citori.
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Tim,
Good for you for getting your boy interested in shooting sports. Skeet is a challenging game. I hope he enjoys it and sticks with it. May I recommend the skeet shooting DVD by Todd Bender for some valuable instruction, with some great camera work.
Now, to your problem.
"I was told by the gun shop the 11-87's didn't work right because he does not have the body mass to support a good foundation for the gun."
That's utter nonsense.
The 1187 is a gas operated semi-automatic action. If the gun is operating nominally, it will cycle if you hang it from a string.
My daughter has been shooting a 12 gauge 1100 (nearly the same gun as the 1187) for trap shooting since she was 12, and at that time she might have weighed 100 lb. Gun always worked.
When you say "he broke 2 1187's," what, exactly, broke on the gun? I am very familiar with this gun, and I submit his weight/stature has absoultely nothing to do with it.
Just my humble opinion, the 1100 or 1187 is better suited for shooting skeet than the Benelli's. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Benelli's, as they're a fine gun. But they're light. Super for carrying around the field chasing pheasants all day.
But for skeet shooting, you actually want a heavier gun. Two reasons. One is recoil. A heaver gun recoils less than a light gun. Also, the 1100/1187 guns are well noted for their soft recoil, due to the gas action. Recoil, especially for a light-weight youngster, is a fun-killer.
Second, a heavy gun almost forces you to swing the gun smoothly, instead of jerking. This too is a good thing for skeet. Many of the best skeet shooters shoot guns that are quite heavy for this reason.
That's just my opinion, and its worth every penny you paid for it.
Good luck to you and your son.
Tim
As far as the problem with the M2, I can't help. If its that new, and under warranty, I'd send it in.
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slsail,
Noise is not much too of a concern until you start shooting thousands of rounds per year at sporting games. And its not just the times you shoot. Most often with clay target games, there are a bunch of other folks around you, shooting too.
Noise damage to ears is cumulative, and irreversible.
So, you must wear good hearing protection when shooting sporting games like trap and skeet.
And as far as the porting goes, its not proven to be particularly effective at what they say it does, plus its a pain to clean the ports, plus, many believe it degrades the aftermarket value of a gun, that is, a gun without porting would sell for a higher price than the same gun with porting.
So...if you can get a gun without porting, I would. If you have a gun without porting, and you're considering having it ported, I'd recommend against it.
If the gun you want is only available with porting...oh well....you're stuck.
Again, this is all just my opinion.
Your mileage may vary.
Tim
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Good game, and great fun. Kind of a "poor man's sporting clays."
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Skeet chokes should be 0.005 constriction, or about 0.725 ID.
IC is just a hair tighter.
When I shoot skeet with a 12 gauge, which is almost never, I shoot cylinder chokes.
Will it get you a bird that you wouldn't have gotten with an IC choke? I doubt it.
BTW, an 88% average, if you're just starting out, is pretty good.
If you really want to step your game up, get the video by Todd Bender from Sunrise Video. Excellent video for skeet shooting.
Best shotgun for beginner?
in Benelli
Posted
CZ no longer sells the semi-auto. I know several of the people with CZ-USA, including their president, Alice Poluchova. They dropped the semi-auto line because they found it was unreliable.
Their break action shotguns are all made by Huglu in Turkey, and I think they are good quality, in between the low dollar entry guns and the better guns like Browning and Beretta.
I have not heard much about the Charles Daly guns, but what I have heard is not so great.
If you get a Charles Daly break action gun made in the 70's, you're getting an excellent quality gun, probably made by Miroku in Japan (who also makes the Browning Citori.)
I believe the issue with Remingtons rusting is their entry level guns are all matte finish, not blued. The matte finish is not as durable as bluing, and they have been known to rust.
DO NOT STORE YOUR GUNS IN A SOFT GUN CASE. They attract moisture and will cause rust, just sitting in your closet.
On the 1100's and 1187's, I guarantee my daughter has put more rounds through that gun in the last 5 years than most of you will ever put through your guns. She shot in the SCTP trap shooting program, and now shoots on the Kansas State University trap shooting team. There's a learning curve with the 1100 guns. Yes, they break, but the good thing is they are really easy to fix. Kinda the "chevy small block" of shotguns. Shooting Sports Magazine sells an 1100/1187 repair parts kit for about $65 that has all the parts that might need to be repaired, and all of them can be replaced in a duck blind. If you keep a new o-ring in them, and know the "tricks", they'll last well into your grandkids lifetime.